Temporal punishment for sin

[asd72]

I have been trying to understand better the teaching that temporal punishment is the reason for purgatory, because it is also said purgatory is for cleansing of remaining inordinate attachment to creatures.

I can understand that sin has temporal consequences. For example I committed the sin of gluttony in relation to excess smoking. Temporal consequences could be disease caused by smoking perhaps.

The main reason I quit was the slavery to nicotine. I figured I would have to detach in this life or the next. I had to detach and endure suffering before I got used to a new normal as a non smoker.

The suffering involved in the detachment seems inevitable. And that seems to me the key in healing the inordinate attachment.

I am just trying to get my head around temporal punishment and inordinate attachment to creatures, because to me inordinate attachment seems a completely different matter to temporal punishment.

Detachment seems more about healing, whereas temporal punishment seems to be about justice, reaping what you sow, so to speak.

I don’t know if anyone understands what I’m on about.

 

[R_C]

I think that the detachment is a consequence of the temporal punishment. The three root inclinations (lust, pride, vanity) are a consequence of the original sin, and any inordinate detachment after sin is necessarily a consequence of the sin. That is: since I never smoked, I am not attracted by smoking. If I start eating lots of ice-cream, I can hardly stop without feeling a strong urge to eat ice-cream after a day or two.

However, for instance, I think we can pay our temporal punishment and this does not necessarily mean we have broken free from that vice, nor that we will ever be free from that inclination (ex. you may be tempted to smoke for years ).

But, beyond that, I guess from a practical standpoint we don’t really know what the temporal punishment for a sin is So even if we’re healed from a vice, perhaps we’re still paying the price for some sin And some things we can never break free from, because they come from original sin

 

[bzkoss236]

Maybe think of it this way: How would you be able to be in Heaven, yet still have attachments to this world? Say, you want to go to Heaven, but you don’t want to go until you’ve done something that involves being in this world. Purgatory isn’t just about punishment, it is about purging all uncleanliness from your soul in preparation for entering Heaven. Any punishment is purging injustice, and detachment is purging any unholy attachments to this world (like an attachment to money or something).

I don’t know if this is completely correct, but this is my current understanding. I am open to corrections.

 

[Louishacker]

Here is an article on Catholic Answers that addresses tempoal punihment for sin, especially principlrs 2 and 3 in the article. catholic.com/tracts/primer-on-indulgences

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have been trying to understand better the teaching that temporal punishment is the reason for purgatory, because it is also said purgatory is for cleansing of remaining inordinate attachment to creatures.

I can understand that sin has temporal consequences. For example I committed the sin of gluttony in relation to excess smoking. Temporal consequences could be disease caused by smoking perhaps.

The main reason I quit was the slavery to nicotine. I figured I would have to detach in this life or the next. I had to detach and endure suffering before I got used to a new normal as a non smoker.

The suffering involved in the detachment seems inevitable. And that seems to me the key in healing the inordinate attachment.

I am just trying to get my head around temporal punishment and inordinate attachment to creatures, because to me inordinate attachment seems a completely different matter to temporal punishment.

Detachment seems more about healing, whereas temporal punishment seems to be about justice, reaping what you sow, so to speak.

I don’t know if anyone understands what I’m on about.

You are not alone. Of all the things the Church teaches, this is one area I cannot wrap my brain around. I can understand purgation (purgatory)–I cannot understand indulgences and temporal punishment. And it is not for lack of trying. And I think I have read every explanation there is. So I don’t try any more. I accept that this is something the Church teaches, and go about my business. I don’t have to understand everything, and I trust that when I die, it will all be revealed to me.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

When the soul begins to be infused with the grace of God interiorly, it reacts (even in this life) in a way which is painful. The purity of God’s grace is too much for us to handle, and in contrast to that purity, the impurities of our nature are all the more starkly revealed. Thus even in this life we go through interior trials and external penances etc to purify our souls, with the help of God’s grace. We need to leave behind our attachment to sin, an arduous and at times even quite painful reality. When we sin, the attachment to that sin grows stronger. When we act virtuously we become less attached to sin. We can of course be helped in this task by the sacraments and the prayers of others. Indulgences work in a similar way, they are a gift of grace granted by the church for some good work. Grace can accomplish extraordinary things!

If when we die, we are still not fully pure, the that purification needs to continues as the soul becomes more accepting of the grace of God. Just as when we are alive, the prayers of others and the indulgences gained by others on our behalf help in this journey.

There is a justice element to consider in a sense, it is just that we need to purge these sinful attachments, but the “punishment” is in fact medicinal and a mercy itself. Grace trumps all things, but God will not impose upon our freedom. We must respond to that grace.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I have been trying to understand better the teaching that temporal punishment is the reason for purgatory, because it is also said purgatory is for cleansing of remaining inordinate attachment to creatures.

In my studies, “consequences,” “punishments,” “attachments” really fall under the same umbrella of things that need purifying. I think “consequences” may best cover them all. Sin has consequences. St. Catherine of Genoa, the mystic who saw through the eyes of those in Purgatory, and whose work on Purgatory was praised by Pope Benedict XVI in a recent general audience, speaks of the “rust” of sin, not the guilt, that needs purging.

 

[asd72]

Here is an article on Catholic Answers that addresses tempoal punihment for sin, especially principlrs 2 and 3 in the article. catholic.com/tracts/primer-on-indulgences

I think it is articles like that which confuse me.

It talks about the two consequences of sin being guilt (forgiven by God), and punishment (I guess our Penance + indulgences to pay our debt). But is doesn’t mention attachment to sinful behaviours which is what we need to overcome if we are ‘to sin no more’ in that particular area.

But the catechism talks more about final cleansing of attachment to creatures, which is more how I understand it. Because we are to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect, so if we are not fully Holy/Sanctified in this life, we have to go through further cleansing by fire, with fire being an analogy of purification which is painful, as all detachment is.

 

[asd72]

When the soul begins to be infused with the grace of God interiorly, it reacts (even in this life) in a way which is painful. The purity of God’s grace is too much for us to handle, and in contrast to that purity, the impurities of our nature are all the more starkly revealed. Thus even in this life we go through interior trials and external penances etc to purify our souls, with the help of God’s grace. We need to leave behind our attachment to sin, an arduous and at times even quite painful reality. When we sin, the attachment to that sin grows stronger. When we act virtuously we become less attached to sin. We can of course be helped in this task by the sacraments and the prayers of others. Indulgences work in a similar way, they are a gift of grace granted by the church for some good work. Grace can accomplish extraordinary things!

If when we die, we are still not fully pure, the that purification needs to continues as the soul becomes more accepting of the grace of God. Just as when we are alive, the prayers of others and the indulgences gained by others on our behalf help in this journey.

There is a justice element to consider in a sense, it is just that we need to purge these sinful attachments, but the “punishment” is in fact medicinal and a mercy itself. Grace trumps all things, but God will not impose upon our freedom. We must respond to that grace.

Thank you Father for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

One of the things which has me studying this teaching more at the moment is it’s one of the questions put to me by a Fundamentalist Protestant. He asked, if in 1John1:7 the Blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin, do Catholics have the need for purgatory and indulgences.

He would have been taught that Justification is instant when he accepted Jesus as his Lord and Saviour. And Sanctification is a process through life. So in effect they admit they can increase in Holiness in life. Would it be correct to explain purgatory as the process which their Sanctification is completed before they are able to come into the Presence of God?

This is just one of five questions, so I want to keep things simple but correct.

Thank you everyone else for your ideas.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

Yes, in a sense. Those who are in purgatory are already saved, they stand closer to God then we do. Thus they are no longer working towards salvation (justification) but holiness (sanctification).

Largely speaking the Catholic Church and many Protestants agree on justification. One is saved by the grace of God, it is not earned. Many of them however, believe that once they are “saved” they cannot be lost. Thus justification stands as wholly separate to sanctification. Catholic however, understand that the two are related. Our sins are not simply covered over or ignored by God, who simply allows our impure souls to enter heaven but rather our souls are purified and their sinful natures healed by the grace of God, through our cooperation with his will. Should we fall back into serious sin and not repent we will go to Hell. Thus our holiness of life has a bearing on our salvation, even though we do not earn salvation. While even the most heinous of sinner can be saved by repentance, even at the point of death, the task of purification is still necessary hence Purgatory.

 

[asd72]

Okay, thanks for that.