Temporal Punishment & the Bible

[catholic1seeks]

I have 2 questions related to the current topic.

(1) Why is it beneficial to use Old Testament to prove temperol punishment ? I re-read a chapter in Jimmy Akin’s The Salvation Controversy, and in the chapter on penance, he uses many examples from the OT to prove the existence of temperal punishment. I don’t really see how that could be helpful, for that was the Old Covenant. Christ had not yet died for ours sins.

(2) What are the New Testament proofs for temporal punishment??

THANKS!

 

[MarcoPolo]

In the NT, the story of Zaccheus is an excellent example of repaying the wrongs one has caused. Zaccheus, after already taking Christ into his home, STILL goes and repays the wrongs he had done. (Lk 19:1-9)

Also in the NT, there is the parable of “paying the last penny” (Matthew 5:25-26, luke 12:58-59)

 

[MarcoPolo]

(1) Why is it beneficial to use Old Testament to prove temperol punishment ? I re-read a chapter in Jimmy Akin’s The Salvation Controversy, and in the chapter on penance, he uses many examples from the OT to prove the existence of temperal punishment. I don’t really see how that could be helpful, for that was the Old Covenant. Christ had not yet died for ours sins.

Regarding this which I somehow overlooked the first time …the Old Testament reveals the new. It is an imperfect shadow of what was to come (Haggai 2:9, 2 Cor 3:11). Showing how man performed certain animal sacrifice, for instance, in the OT prefigures the work of Christ. When we sin and repent in Christ, we instead participate in the perfect sacrifice which can return us to God, whereas the OT sacrifices could not.

You see James identifying Abraham’s faith and works as justifying (James 2:20-24). But we do not say why does James talk about faith in the OT when Jesus had not yet been made Incarnate for Abraham to believe in!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

In the NT, the story of Zaccheus is an excellent example of repaying the wrongs one has caused. Zaccheus, after already taking Christ into his home, STILL goes and repays the wrongs he had done. (Lk 19:1-9)

Also in the NT, there is the parable of “paying the last penny” (Matthew 5:25-26, luke 12:58-59)

the actions of a repentant heart should not be confused with temporal punishment from the most high.

 

[steve_b]

I have 2 questions related to the current topic.

(1) Why is it beneficial to use Old Testament to prove temperol punishment ? I re-read a chapter in Jimmy Akin’s The Salvation Controversy, and in the chapter on penance, he uses many examples from the OT to prove the existence of temperal punishment. I don’t really see how that could be helpful, for that was the Old Covenant. Christ had not yet died for ours sins.

Are you speaking of purgatory?

If we don’t need any kind of punishment, or do any kind of penance, because Jesus did it ALL, why then does Jesus say if anyone wants to follow Him, they must deny themselves and carry their cross…DAILY ?

Mk 8:34
Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Lk 9:23
Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

What if they don’t?

Seems to me this is a blueprint for getting out of needing purgatory, Yet How many people do you think pray, get me off this cross?
c:

(2) What are the New Testament proofs for temporal punishment??

THANKS!

What did Jimmy say to this? I’m sure he gave the answer

 

[VociMike]

the actions of a repentant heart should not be confused with temporal punishment from the most high.

I would word this another way. The human concept of “punishment” is so different from the divine concept of “punishment” that I think the word serves no beneficial purpose in describing divine actions, motives or goals.

The whole discussion comes down to a few simple questions, I believe: why does God “punish”? What are his goals in “punishing”? What is the intended outcome of divine “punishment”?