Temporal punishments due to sins

[Heaveniswaiting]

Do you think that the temporal punishments due to sins ( mortal and venial sins forgiven in confession) can be made up by living a “good holy” life with no other pain and sufferings in his or her life or would he or she still need to suffer in whatever ways in order to make up?

 

[JerryZ]

The Church teaches that in order to avoid purgatory, where one is purged of the residual punishment due to us, because of our sins, can be achieved by leading a sinless holy life, following the examples set forth by the Saints that GOD has provided us for inspiration and imitation.
Also by heeding St. Paul words, on storing up a treasure in Heaven to counterweight our shortcomings while here on Earth.
The corporal works of mercy is our best way to begin saving in our Heaven Bank Account, the “treasures” St, Paul speaks of.
Peace!!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

St. Therese said we can skip purgatory by loving and trusting God to spare us from Purgatory, and focusing on praying for/ helping other people.

 

[Lazybones]

Of course! “Love covers a multitude of offenses” - proverbs and Peter.
What did Jesus ask of Peter after Peter denied Him? He didn’t ask for fasting as reparation or some other form of corporal penance.

 

[CRV]

There was one priest to whom I went to confession regularly some years ago, but I’ve always remembered what he said at the end …
“May the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ, the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints, whatever good you do and sufferng you endure, heal your sins, help you to grow in holiness, and reward you with eternal life. Go in peace.”

Prayers of the the Church--Aleteia

It's worthwhile to take time to pray with and about the prayers of the Church, and not become so accustomed to them that we're tuned out as they are said.

aleteia.org

 

[tomo_pomo]

temporal punishment like purgatory or this life?

 

[Mary888]

Not all suffering is punishment. Christ said the man born blind did nothing wrong, nor his family, and that his temporal sickness was so that we can believe.
Job was righteous, he suffered so his faith can get tested.
In the Psalms St. David also says that our faith will tested.

 

[Maximus1]

As I get older I see sin ( at least the identification of something as sin) to be behovely, as Julian of Norwich wrote. It might seem alien to those with a strictly transactional view of
" Divine Justice" but to me it makes sense. The sins we engage in during our lives injure us during our lives I have discovered now that I have lived a while. We may not appreciate the injury right away, but it is uncanny how life itself seems to meter out punishment temporally. There is something to the saying," the bill comes due." We can percieved this as God’s punishment, or we can see this as God’s love and warning identifying that sin and it’s importance so we take heed. Trying to keep us from hurting ourself. Teaching us as Julian taught, to protect us . She spoke of discernment developed. But I sometime think of a parents admonition," hey the ice is thin, don’t go near or play on the ice today."
It might be that our perception is the harm that follows disobedience is metered justice. But the parent was motivated for my safety and well being and didn’t want us harmed at all, or punished. The harm to the child falling through ice is the consequence of disobedience of a parent who knew better, not a parents wrath and desire of retributive justice. The latter motivation is a misperception born from ones own vantage, not the parent.
And how much more so does God know better than our finite parent? And how much more love does God have than a parent?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Is that opinion or Church teaching?

St Therese is a Doctor of the Church, which means she is viewed as making extremely significant contributions to Church teaching and theology and that her teachings are generally accepted by the Church. There are only 36 Doctors of the Church and only 4 of them are women (St Therese, St Teresa of Avila, St Catherine of Siena, and St Hildegarde of Bingen). So it’s not just some random opinion, although it’s not a dogma of the Church either.

 

[Genesis315]

As St. Peter said, “charity covers a multitude of sins.” (1 Peter 4:8).

However, someone so holy would likely suffer for others to make up what they lacked, as St. Paul did (see Col 1:24). Christ did say that salvation is found in the way of the Cross and the letter to the Hebrews says

Heb. 12:[6] For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons; for what son is there, whom the father doth not correct? [8] But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons.

St. Thomas More summed this up nicely:

If we lay first, for a sure ground, a very fast faith, whereby we believe to be true all that the scripture saith (understood truly, as the old holy doctors declare it and as the spirit of God instructeth his Catholic Church), then shall we consider tribulation as a gracious gift of God, a gift that he specially gave his special friends; a thing that in scripture is highly commended and praised; a thing of which the contrary, long continued, is perilous; a thing which, if God send it not, men have need to put upon themselves and seek by penance; a thing that helpeth to purge our past sins; a thing that preserveth us from sins that otherwise would come; a thing that causeth us to set less by the world; a thing that much diminisheth our pains in purgatory; a thing that much increaseth our final reward in heaven; the thing with which all his apostles followed him thither; the thing to which our Saviour exhorteth all men; the thing without which he saith we be not his disciples; the thing without which no man can get to heaven.

It should also be noted that death itself is a temporal punishment:

CCC 1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the "new man."84

 

[Vico]

Do you think that the temporal punishments due to sins ( mortal and venial sins forgiven in confession) can be made up by living a “good holy” life with no other pain and sufferings in his or her life or would he or she still need to suffer in whatever ways in order to make up?

Yes. Also baptism removes all temporal punishment for sins up to that time.

Catechism

1472 … every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. … A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain. …

1471 … “An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin.” …

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Both Jesus and the Blessed Mother were without sin, yet suffered in this life

So we sinners will suffer in this life, regardless of how holy we are.

Also, I reject the idea of punishment as if God punishes us for the sins we commit

The theological definition for “sin” is to miss the mark. It was taught as being akin to an archer shooting for the target but missing it.

What we suffer from sin is the consequence of sin itself. God’s commandments were given to help us in order to live a life that would lead us away from suffering as a consequence of sin.

God didn’t send Jesus to change His mind about us sinners, but to change the minds of us sinners about God.

God is merciful and forgiving

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There’s a LOT of space between dogma and opinion.
We have very few dogmas.
We have a great deal of magisterial teaching that is somewhere between “generally accepted” and “worthy of belief or at least very serious consideration given the source.” To dismiss it as “opinion” is wrongly minimizing it, since God enabled a greater understanding in holy persons such as Doctors of the Church and many Popes, and motivated them to enlighten mankind.

It’s all in whether one is interested in learning the teachings with an open mind, or simply getting a pamphlet of black letter dogmas and rules and ignoring the rest of the richness God provides us.

That’s about all I have to say on this. Good day to you.

 

[Genesis315]

There doesn’t appear to be any space between opinion and dogma. If something is not dogma, the by default it must be opinion. Unless there is a third category?

Wisdom.

Dogmas are the truths directly revealed by God which all are required to believe by faith. But those who live in the Spirit a life of faith and charity to an extraordinary degree often are given the gift of wisdom to a greater degree by the same Spirit. The wise man especially recognizes the wisdom of those wiser than he and learns from him (or her, as the case may be).

Tob. 4:18 Seek advice from every wise man, and do not despise any useful counsel.

In fact, the gifts of God are given to some for the good of all–we should not spurn them just because we did not receive them personally.

1 Cor. 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
…
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

 

[different_division]

Do you think that the temporal punishments due to sins ( mortal and venial sins forgiven in confession) can be made up by living a “good holy” life with no other pain and sufferings in his or her life or would he or she still need to suffer in whatever ways in order to make up?

I don’t think that God punishes believers for our sins because he placed all those punishments on Jesus. He allows us to suffer as a result of our sins in order to bring us closer to Him or to teach us some kind of lesson. As a result of Job’s sufferings he was able to see God which caused him to repent of his sins.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It should be noted that different_division is not Catholic and is expressing some Protestant belief here, which is not really addressing the Catholic concept of “temporal punishments” i.e. Purgatory, as to my knowledge Protestants do not believe in Purgatory.