I
inJESUS
Guest
Hello, i know that Shia accepted this practice all along, but that Sunni do not. Do Shia still practice it now? and based on which hadith or teachings?
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C
Contarini
Guest
I don’t know which hadith it is based on, but it seems clear that they do still practice it. See this article on the revival of the practice in contemporary Iraq.
Edwin
I
iamrefreshed
Guest
I guess it depends on who you believe.
A Muslim apologist looking to make Islam more appealing to sex crazed men…
Or
A Muslim looking to defend his faith against those who believe in the sanctity of marriage and respect for woman as equals.
Fact is that it is practiced.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/19/AR2007011901850.html
library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/tmpmrig.htm
newsvine.com/_news/2007/06/02/752971-iran-official-backs-temporary-marriage
However, since Islam has no central authority (like the Pope) they can argue both ways (depending on who they are speaking with)
I
inJESUS
Guest
thx you both.However, since Islam has no central authority (like the Pope) they can argue both ways (depending on who they are speaking with)
Yes they do argue both ways this is why i asked about supposting evidence for this practice. After all, both are using the same scripture.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
Just last week a Sunni Muslim friend of mine
told me that one of the differences between Sunni and
Shia Islam is that Shia Islam allows a man to marry a
woman for just an hour or two then divorce her.
Gosh, Even Greg Allman and Cher stayed married for a week…
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
told me that one of the differences between Sunni and
Shia Islam is that Shia Islam allows a man to marry a
woman for just an hour or two then divorce her.
Gosh, Even Greg Allman and Cher stayed married for a week…
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
Temporary marriages is just Islam’s version of legalized prostitution.
I
inJESUS
Guest
I know that Muhammad allowed it. But i don’t know the ruling : when, why, for how much time ecc. and i don’t know if Muhammad changed his mind about it later or whether it is still to be applied.
I do see it a sexual matter rather than an economical solution for widows. After all, you can provide her with money or job without “marrying” her. And it is not called “mutaa” (pleasure) for no reason. But i’ll be looking for supporting evidence for this practice in addition to its “moral” background in Islamic eyes.
I do see it a sexual matter rather than an economical solution for widows. After all, you can provide her with money or job without “marrying” her. And it is not called “mutaa” (pleasure) for no reason. But i’ll be looking for supporting evidence for this practice in addition to its “moral” background in Islamic eyes.
I
iamrefreshed
Guest
K
Kadaveri
Guest
Some Shi’a (not all) do still practice it.
There are many Ahadith from several narrators (including Ali ibn Abi Talib) reporting that after Khaibar Muhammad (pbuh) forbade temporary marriage forever; which is why Sunni Muslims consider it fornication. There are some Shi’a who accuse Umar ibn Al-Khattab of being the one who forbade it and that he fabricated statements or forced people to say Muhammad forbade it (I’ve yet to see any real evidence that this happened); and so they say there’s nothing wrong with it.
It really is just practical legalised prostitution.
There are many Ahadith from several narrators (including Ali ibn Abi Talib) reporting that after Khaibar Muhammad (pbuh) forbade temporary marriage forever; which is why Sunni Muslims consider it fornication. There are some Shi’a who accuse Umar ibn Al-Khattab of being the one who forbade it and that he fabricated statements or forced people to say Muhammad forbade it (I’ve yet to see any real evidence that this happened); and so they say there’s nothing wrong with it.
It really is just practical legalised prostitution.
I
inJESUS
Guest
do Shia have different hadiths on this issue that you consider fake and they consider yours fake?
K
Kadaveri
Guest
They don’t really have different Hadith, they just reject lots of them if they think someone connected to such-and-such Hadith in some way opposed Ali ibn Abi Talib. There is certainly no Hadith they use as evidence that this is permissable, they just reject the ones where the Prophet forbids it and so act as if they don’t exist.
In this example Umar ibn Al-Khattab is known to have ordered any who practiced temporary marriages to be stoned to death (an even more severe punishment than that for plain fornication); so that’s his connection to the Ahadith where the Prophet forbade it. Now Shi’a seriously hate this man’s guts because they feel he usurped Ali’s rightful position in being appointed Caliph; so because they have their tradition of despising him so much, they see anything he did as evil, so doing the opposite must be the right thing to do.
So if Umar punished those who practiced temporary marriage, in their minds that means temporary marriage must be a good thing. What about all the Ahadith where the Prophet also forbids it? Well Umar must have forced the narrators to report the Prophet said such things; because there’s no way any good person would agree with such an evil man as Umar.
There’s a reason why Sunni Muslims often give Shi’a the nickname the rejectors, besides the straight-forward.
In this example Umar ibn Al-Khattab is known to have ordered any who practiced temporary marriages to be stoned to death (an even more severe punishment than that for plain fornication); so that’s his connection to the Ahadith where the Prophet forbade it. Now Shi’a seriously hate this man’s guts because they feel he usurped Ali’s rightful position in being appointed Caliph; so because they have their tradition of despising him so much, they see anything he did as evil, so doing the opposite must be the right thing to do.
So if Umar punished those who practiced temporary marriage, in their minds that means temporary marriage must be a good thing. What about all the Ahadith where the Prophet also forbids it? Well Umar must have forced the narrators to report the Prophet said such things; because there’s no way any good person would agree with such an evil man as Umar.
There’s a reason why Sunni Muslims often give Shi’a the nickname the rejectors, besides the straight-forward.
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
That article says “The contracts … generally stipulate that the man will pay the woman in exchange for sexual intimacy”
Sadly, I think you’re right. :twocents: (That’s two cents for my thoughts… not a payment for such a disgusting religious contract.)
How awful.
F
famdigy
Guest
Shia Muslims consider temporary marriage to be a legal form of marriage.
Setting the legality issues aside, according to shia jurisprudence there are certain conditions that need to be met for this to be a valid marriage.
A shia muslim man can marry a shia muslim woman, or jewish / christian women or sunni muslim women (provided there is no danger of being led astray and with some conditions). A shia muslim woman can marry a shia muslim man or a sunni muslim man (provided there is no danger of being led astray and with some conditions).
Since marriage is a contract, the formula is a verbal contract between the two parties. It is made up two parts, a declaration and an acceptance.
The woman makes the declaration by saying “i marry myself to you” and specifies the dower, the duration and any additional conditions. The man can then accept the proposal or reject it.
The difference between temporary marriage and prostitution is that prostitutes are forbidden in marriage by reason of the Qur’anic verse: ‘The fornicator shall marry not but a fornicatress or an idolatress, and the fornicatress-none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolator; that is forbidden to the believers’ (24:3)
The women who enter into temporary marriage especially if muslim are required to observe the waiting period of 3 months before getting married again (Quran 2:234). I suspect it is for these reasons that the hadiths strongly recommend concluding temporary marriages with chaste Muslim women, those who follow the sharia in their activities and do not commit fornication.
In a way it is very similar to dating in the west without the associated problems and misunderstandings. For example, one party may be looking for a short term relationship while the other may be prospecting for a spouse. Most often it is women who are taken advantage of and hurt. In Temporary marriage, islam wants to avoid that by giving only the woman the right to make the proposal and set the conditions. For instance, she could be looking for a strictly platonic relationship and specify that the contract.
This way no one is hurt, and both parties know where the other stand. Once the duration of the marriage has expired, they can either renew the marriage again or amicably separate.
Quran:
“So for whatever you have had of pleasure (Istamta’tum) with them give them their required due…” (surah 4:24) All 12er shia believe this verse is referencing temporary marriage. The sunnis on the other hand have two separate opinions on this verse- The verse was revealed about temporary marriage but was later abrogated, thus it is no longer a valid form of marriage
- The verse refers to permanent marriage only.
Hadith:
There are traditions which claim that the prophet prohibited this practice during his lifetime, however the shia believe these hadiths are fabricationsSetting the legality issues aside, according to shia jurisprudence there are certain conditions that need to be met for this to be a valid marriage.
- the persons
A shia muslim man can marry a shia muslim woman, or jewish / christian women or sunni muslim women (provided there is no danger of being led astray and with some conditions). A shia muslim woman can marry a shia muslim man or a sunni muslim man (provided there is no danger of being led astray and with some conditions).
- recital of the formula
Since marriage is a contract, the formula is a verbal contract between the two parties. It is made up two parts, a declaration and an acceptance.
The woman makes the declaration by saying “i marry myself to you” and specifies the dower, the duration and any additional conditions. The man can then accept the proposal or reject it.
The difference between temporary marriage and prostitution is that prostitutes are forbidden in marriage by reason of the Qur’anic verse: ‘The fornicator shall marry not but a fornicatress or an idolatress, and the fornicatress-none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolator; that is forbidden to the believers’ (24:3)
The women who enter into temporary marriage especially if muslim are required to observe the waiting period of 3 months before getting married again (Quran 2:234). I suspect it is for these reasons that the hadiths strongly recommend concluding temporary marriages with chaste Muslim women, those who follow the sharia in their activities and do not commit fornication.
In a way it is very similar to dating in the west without the associated problems and misunderstandings. For example, one party may be looking for a short term relationship while the other may be prospecting for a spouse. Most often it is women who are taken advantage of and hurt. In Temporary marriage, islam wants to avoid that by giving only the woman the right to make the proposal and set the conditions. For instance, she could be looking for a strictly platonic relationship and specify that the contract.
This way no one is hurt, and both parties know where the other stand. Once the duration of the marriage has expired, they can either renew the marriage again or amicably separate.
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
No, it’s not. It’s very similar to prostitution in the west.
F
famdigy
Guest
Sexual deviancy is a big problem in the Muslim world, especially with the younger crowd. In Saudi Arabia for instance homosexuality is on the rise
Source: associatedcontent.com/article/225905/homosexuality_on_the_rise_in_saudi.html
The cause of this deviancy is the suppression of human nature. Single people in the kingdom who can’t get married and have no access to the members of the opposite sex are rebelling. This is not exclusive to Muslims. The Christian sexual morality also had its share of sexual deviancy.
Sayyid Rizvi writes:
“If a religion shuts its eyes to the intricacies of family problems, its followers, sooner or later, will revolt against it, destroying all religious tenets in the wake of the rebellion. . .Christianity ignored the claims of human nature, extolling the idea of celibacy. Many zealous people tried to live up to that ideal. Monks and nuns shut themselves in monasteries. For a short period, this scheme worked well. Then nature took its revenge; the monks and abbots cultivated the idea that they were representatives of Christ, and the nuns were given the titles of ‘brides of Christ.’ So with easy conscience they turned the monasteries into centres of sexual liberties.”
Commenting on the attitude of the Christian clergy, Russell writes, “It was only towards the end of the thirteenth century that the celibacy of the clergy was rigidly enforced. The clergy, of course, continued to have illicit relations with women…” (Marriage and Morals, p. 64) Pope John XII was condemned for adultery and incest; the abbot-elect of St. Augustine, at Canterbury, in 1171 was found to have seventeen illegitimate children in a single village; Henry III, Bishop of Leige, was deposed in 1274 for having sixty-five illegitimate children
Source: al-islam.org/m_morals/chap1.htm#anchor164608
This is an on-going issue, and the catholic church is still plagued by the sexual abuse cases launched against it for which it paid out $2.3 Billion to date. The question begs why is there an epidemic of sexual abuse within Christianity and specifically the roman catholic church? Could it be a consequence of an unnatural sexual morality?
Temporary marriage is a solution for muslims
Source: associatedcontent.com/article/225905/homosexuality_on_the_rise_in_saudi.html
The cause of this deviancy is the suppression of human nature. Single people in the kingdom who can’t get married and have no access to the members of the opposite sex are rebelling. This is not exclusive to Muslims. The Christian sexual morality also had its share of sexual deviancy.
Sayyid Rizvi writes:
“If a religion shuts its eyes to the intricacies of family problems, its followers, sooner or later, will revolt against it, destroying all religious tenets in the wake of the rebellion. . .Christianity ignored the claims of human nature, extolling the idea of celibacy. Many zealous people tried to live up to that ideal. Monks and nuns shut themselves in monasteries. For a short period, this scheme worked well. Then nature took its revenge; the monks and abbots cultivated the idea that they were representatives of Christ, and the nuns were given the titles of ‘brides of Christ.’ So with easy conscience they turned the monasteries into centres of sexual liberties.”
Commenting on the attitude of the Christian clergy, Russell writes, “It was only towards the end of the thirteenth century that the celibacy of the clergy was rigidly enforced. The clergy, of course, continued to have illicit relations with women…” (Marriage and Morals, p. 64) Pope John XII was condemned for adultery and incest; the abbot-elect of St. Augustine, at Canterbury, in 1171 was found to have seventeen illegitimate children in a single village; Henry III, Bishop of Leige, was deposed in 1274 for having sixty-five illegitimate children
Source: al-islam.org/m_morals/chap1.htm#anchor164608
This is an on-going issue, and the catholic church is still plagued by the sexual abuse cases launched against it for which it paid out $2.3 Billion to date. The question begs why is there an epidemic of sexual abuse within Christianity and specifically the roman catholic church? Could it be a consequence of an unnatural sexual morality?
Temporary marriage is a solution for muslims
S
swariffin
Guest
Dear Khalfan/Kadeveri,
Just curious question, why do you add (pbuh) after mentioning Jesus, and in this thread after mentioning Mohammad? What does it mean?
Just curious question, why do you add (pbuh) after mentioning Jesus, and in this thread after mentioning Mohammad? What does it mean?
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Yep, you’re right, I admit with embarrassment.
But I don’t think you’ll find a responsible Christian organisation that condones prostitution or temporary marriages.
That would be a subject of corruption and conspiracy, and surely something for a different thread.
K
Kadaveri
Guest
It means Peace Be Upon Him.
I
iamrefreshed
Guest
No, it is nothing like dating in the West. It is like prostitution.
Misunderstandings? Maybe you are right there. In the west a man could expect sex on a date and the woman may be chaste or visa versa.
In Mut’a (temporary marriage) you are correct and there are no misunderstandings. The two people just want to fornicate and Shia believe that because they call it something else (Mut’a) then it’s not fornicating.
How lame!
Just another example of how Muslim men value women as sex objects and not humans.
This is just fornication with a ‘contract’. How sad that these people value themselves and God so little.
A
anna1978
Guest
You learn something new every day…I always thought Muslims were so chaste and only had sex within a life-long marriage, I mean…an hour…2 hours…3 months…that’s not ‘marriage’, that is prostitution, especially if the woman gets paid. How degrading!
Anna x
Anna x
- Status