Temporary preisthood to stem falling numbers?

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Esperanto99

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Sermon last Sunday dealt with shrinking numbers of priests. The numbers are disconcerting: parishes are cutting masses off the schedule.Father discussed the discipline of celibacy, and the possible consequences of a married priesthood.

Rather than eliminate the discipline of celibacy for priests, considered a major reason for a decline in vocations, how would you react if qualified seminarians were required to serve in the priesthood for a tour of duty, say 5 years, preaching and administering the sacraments? I am thinking as a model USMA cadets who serve for five years following their education at West Point. Many do the 5 and get out, many however stay in for long careers.

Would this be acceptable to the faithful, and not in discord with scripture and tradition, and would it even work to keep priesthood numbers up?
 
JMJ

The Sacramant of Holy Orders leaves an indelible mark on its recipient which remains for life. It cannot be erased. A priest can be laicized to relieve him of the responsibilty to perform the functions of a priest, but the indelible mark can never be removed.

Celibacy IS NOT a cause for a shortage of priests. The shortage of priests has come from the deterioration of the dogmatic and spiritual laxity within the Church and hierarchy. This not only repulses those with true vocations for the priesthood and the religious life, but also has caused too many seminary staffs **to turn away those with true vocations ** while calling them too orthodox, stiff necked, and lacking in tolerance for other religious ideas.

Most of those preaching the need to remove the celebacy of the priesthood are the very ones who have torn down the dogmas and traditions the the Church and left us with the chaos we have today. The Church throughout needs a serious return to vigorous discipline to effect a revitalization.
 
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GeorgeCooney:
JMJ

Celibacy IS NOT a cause for a shortage of priests.
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absurd. celibacy is A cause for the shortage of priests. it might not be the cause as there a probably a number of reasons but it definitely has an effect. i am not advocating either camp on this issue and i agree that discipline attracts the truly devoted, but to say it is not a cause for some one to not go into the priesthood is a bit of an overstatement. i can sit here and name 5 personal acquaintances (all very orthodox) who would leap into the seminary if married priests were allowed.
 
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GeorgeCooney:
JMJ
Celibacy IS NOT a cause for a shortage of priests. The shortage of priests has come from the deterioration of the dogmatic and spiritual laxity within the Church and hierarchy. This not only repulses those with true vocations for the priesthood and the religious life, but also has caused too many seminary staffs **to turn away those with true vocations ** while calling them too orthodox, stiff necked, and lacking in tolerance for other religious ideas.
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I would have to agree with you, Cooney. Protestants and orthodox allow for married clergy and they are down as well. It is mainly a religious indifference that causes the shortage. Plus i heard vocations are up in other parts as well, indicative that it is not celibacy that causes the shortage.
 
protestants are down because there are too many protestant churches. there are three presbyterian churches (all PCUSA) within a mile of one another. they are the same denomination and all are struggling. that is the condition across the board in protestantism (if you don’t like what one church says, go start another).
 
It is not possible to confer the power of the Holy Spirit to a priest without it being permanent: “You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek”
 
I have to agree with Cooney. Celibacy, as a discipline, is definitely NOT the cause of priest shortages in some dioceses. Dioceses in Nebraska and Colorado, for example, are flush with seminarians recognizing their calling to the preisthood. Why there and not elsewhere? One word…orthodoxy. Strong, faithful bishops leading their flocks to the Truth.

An earlier post stated that he had several friends that would jump at the chance to become priests if celibacy was waived. A bunch of hooey! The priesthood is a calling, not a career choice. You cannot choose to become a priest, you are called, by God, to do so. Celibacy is only an obstacle to those who are not truly being called. In truth, it is saving our dioceses tons of money wasted on seminary formation and education for those without the call.
 
The FSSP (a solid conservative) seminary has so many candidates that it has to turn young men away from the seminary. Liberal seminaries are empty and closing down. Let’s ask ourselves why.

When we fix the seminaries and restore the dignity that belongs to the Priesthood, then men will answer their vocations once more. As it is, Priests are emasculated by an army of lay people trying to take over all of their functions, and parish councils that are out of line.
 
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Esperanto99:
Would this be acceptable to the faithful, and not in discord with scripture and tradition, and would it even work to keep priesthood numbers up?
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What you are describing is pretty much the system Anglicans have. Anglican/Episcopal priests go through seminary and are ordained, but are under no church discipline to work as priests. Former Senator John Danforth of Virginia is an ordained Episcopal priest who presided at the funeral liturgy for Ronald Reagan. I work with several not-for-profit organization consultants who are ordained Episcopal priests.

Would this work for Catholics? I personally doubt it because:
  • Catholic seminary is not merely academic preparation but comprehensive spiritual and personal formation as well–it is far more than “divinity school.”
  • Catholic theology strongly emphasizes the “ontological change” and “indelible mark” which occurs in the man ordained–it is far more than merely a “call to ministry.”
  • Even a minimum five year committment would require at least five years of seminary formation unless we wanted to water down the requirements. These requirements would add up to at least a decade of celibacy, presumably during the time of life that non-celibate men seek wives and start families and are least inclined to consider celibacy.
A variation on this theme, restricted ordination, was used years ago. St. John Vianney was originally ordained only to offer Mass, without faculties to hear confessions or preach. (Of course he became one of the greatest confessors and preachers in history later!) One scenario would be that in places where priests were extremely rare, permanent deacons would be ordained priests with this type of restricted ministry simply to offer the necessary number of Masses. But since permanent deacons already have faculties to preach with their more limited diaconal training, some would argue that there would be no need to forbid them as priests from hearing confessions.
 
i have to say that i agree with 99% of what everyone is saying. my point was that you can’t say that celibacy is not a reason for the falling numbers. it is a reason. it might not be the reason. my point is that it is a discipline and i understand we aren’t comfortable with change, but this is one that could change and i see nothing wrong with it. there are benefits to both sides of the issue. celibate priests make sense for certain reasons and married priests make sense for other. you can have a married priesthood and still be conservative and orthodox (look at the apostles, most of whom were married). Jesus chose married men as well as single men, the gifting of each group is different and that is what we need.
 
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bengal_fan:
i have to say that i agree with 99% of what everyone is saying. my point was that you can’t say that celibacy is not a reason for the falling numbers. it is a reason. it might not be the reason. my point is that it is a discipline and i understand we aren’t comfortable with change, but this is one that could change and i see nothing wrong with it. there are benefits to both sides of the issue. celibate priests make sense for certain reasons and married priests make sense for other. you can have a married priesthood and still be conservative and orthodox (look at the apostles, most of whom were married). Jesus chose married men as well as single men, the gifting of each group is different and that is what we need.
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There is nothing contrary to the Catholic faith to have married priests and they do exist in the Catholic Church. The Eastern Rites ordain married men and there have even been exceptions made for specific converts in the Latin Rite. However, I cannot agree that celebacy is even a minor issue relating to the so-called priest shortage. Testimony from various “insiders” at seminaries supports the claim that orthodox men who have no problem with celebacy have been routinely turned away for decades and that this has only been reversed in the recent past. Even Fr. Greeley (with whom I disagree on almost all issues) says that celebacy is not a cause of the priest shortage and he supports allowing married priests.
 
thanks mutant,

i thank you for responding sincerely and with civility. i just disagree, that it has to have some effect. i do agree that the larger issue is the lack of orthodoxy and the priesthood isn’t viewed as an amazing calling anymore (except by a few). priests today are viewed as suspect and until the bishops and priests get back to focusing on God’s work this will remain so. it takes a lifetime to build trust and only one event to tear it down. that stinks but that is how it is and the priesthood has a long road ahead of it. i am for married priests and i think that would go a long way in spurring on the issue of the public’s trust. i agree that it would open doors to other problems (financial, time, etc.) but i think the good outweighs the bad, and while i understand the arguments against it, i think we need to look at how Jesus chose the original priesthood (even in the old testament, priests were allowed to marry and the theory that melchizideck was noah’s son shem furthers that the priesthood in the line of melchizideck should welcome married men because shem was married). Jesus chose married as well as unmarried men. i think it should be a chosen discipline amongst the priest and that each group should have specific roles to play. i love that in the eastern churches, the bishops must be single because the time and travel involved with being a bishop is not conducive to a married man. on the other hand, i think single priests should not do marriage counseling. does any of this make sense?
 
What must one do to become a priest, educationally speaking?

Do you need a previous degree from an accredited univeristy?

Does the Church pay for you education and room and board?
 
4 years Bachelors Degree in Philosphy
3 years Theology
2 years priestly formation

I think that is about right.

Yes, the dioceses typically pay for education, room and board during your discernment and formation. You do not have to have prior college-level education, though some is helpful.
 
bengel, it may have some effect, but the question is, is it a defect?

is it the culture with the problem or the priesthood?

personally, i want my priests more like issac jouges and others who forsake all for the kingdom, even temporal pleasure.

oh the day when it’ll be hard to choose the married life, out of love of the priesthood.
 
If there are married men who would become priests if allowed to do so, then celebacy is having an effect on the numbers of priests.
 
There are a few things in my mind that is causing a shortage of priests.
  1. There is a lack of vibrancy and orthodoxy in the Catholic Chuch of America. Young men, deep down, want to be a part of something that is heroic and exceptional. The watered down faith of the Church in America is not appealing to the desires of young men. The reason why youth are so attracted to Pope John Paul II is because of orthodoxy, vibrancy, and contemplative life. The youth are drawn to this, and if we can somehow capture this in the Church as a whole, the vocations will take care of itself.
  2. There is a lack of leadership both at the diocesan levels and the parish levels. I believe that if young men had great priests and bishops to look up to, then they will see how awesome and adventurous it is to be a priest, and will be inspired to discern the priesthood. I believe that once some of these new young vibrant orthodox priests that are coming out of seminaries, once they start taking over the parishes and the leadership of the Church, that these priests will have a lasting impression on the young men, and that this will increase the vocations in the future.
  3. Seminaries, thank God, are improving, although there is still work to do. If young men that are discerning the priesthood go to seminary they need to be formed correctly, especially in their spiritual lives. I know a few former seminarians, whose spiritual life actually regressed during their year/years in seminary and thus left. If seminaries continue to get their act together, not only will they keep the seminarians that are admitted to the seminary but they will also attract more.
  4. Lack of big families. Since there are less and less big families, there is a stigma on the youth to get married. Parents don’t encourage vocations, if kids aren’t encouraged, then more than likely the idea will never come to them.
In my opinion, these things are the reason for our current priesthood shortage.

I do know one thing, I would rather have only 1 vibrant orthodox priest instead of 10 heterodox priests that cause harm to people’s faith.

So we must pray, pray, pray. We must encourage vocations. Additionally, we need to fall in love with Jesus Christ so passionately, that we have no option but to share the vibrancy of our faith with everybody we meet. If we one by one, fall more and more in love with Jesus Christ, the problem will be solved. Go to adoration, lift up priests in prayer. Lift up seminarians in prayer. Lift up the youth in prayer.

If you are contracepting, please pray and ask God to show you that you are shutting off the life and the grace that he wants to give you and your family.

Study the writings of Pope John Paul II, especially his teachings on Eucharist, Mary, dignity of human life, sexuality, and family. Share these teachings with your children. Share these teachings with those that you meet.

If we cry out to God, with a plea. If we take action. This crisis will end.

Btw, please pray for my diocese. We are also currently having a priest shortage, that may require shutting down some parishes.

We have a great new Bishop, whom I believe, given some time will change our present situation, but we need your prayers.

I am in the Diocese of Phoenix.
 
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bengal_fan:
i do agree that the larger issue is the lack of orthodoxy and the priesthood isn’t viewed as an amazing calling anymore (except by a few). priests today are viewed as suspect and until the bishops and priests get back to focusing on God’s work this will remain so.
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(emphasis mine)

While we may respectfully disagree on the impact of celebacy and of allowing married clergy; I am very glad to see that we are in perfect agreement here.

Peace to you!
 
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Ken:
If there are married men who would become priests if allowed to do so, then celebacy is having an effect on the numbers of priests.
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Simple way to test this hypothesis. Deacons can be married but we don’t see a huge number of men rushing to become deacons. Marriage is no barrier, so what is? A deacon is an ordained minister who can preach at Mass and preside at baptisms and marriages.
 
Capt K:
Simple way to test this hypothesis. Deacons can be married but we don’t see a huge number of men rushing to become deacons. Marriage is no barrier, so what is? A deacon is an ordained minister who can preach at Mass and preside at baptisms and marriages.
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i don’t think it is presented very often as an option. i am a “cradle” catholic who left the church, became a protestant minister and is now considering returning to the church. in the 19+ years i spent going to mass every sunday, going through CCD, getting confirmed, belonging to the youth group…etc., i never heard of a deacon. i didn’t even know the office existed in the catholic church. this is probably the fault of the priests at my particular parish, but i just don’t think they are calling many men to step up and do this. if i come back to the church, after a long enough period to get fully catechized, i will definitely become a deacon if my parish and the church will have me.
 
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