Temptations That Traditionally Tempt Traditionalists

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TrueLight

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How’s that for alliteration and a tongue twister?😃

When God wants to speak to me, he often sends someone to send me a message then confirms the message in another way. Someone on CAF cautioned me about going too much to the extreme, when it comes to traditionalist viewpoints. I promptly blew him off, but then today I happened to find this talk by Father Ripperger, which confirmed that I need to watch myself.

I’m listening God.

The talk is on defects found among traditionalists and things we should look out for.

Select Traditionalist Problems to listen.

I posted some points from the talk and added some of my opinions as well:

We must beware of despair and depression:
It is easy for traditionalists to suffer from despair or depression because we see all the problems within the church. We must pray for the problems and the agents of those problems without developing a depressed mindset.

We must have some detachment from the problems of the church.
We must strive for the church to be healthy but have some detachment. Do not let abuses stop us from growing in spirituality

We must not detract from charity.
This is self explanatory. How many bloggers speak the truth but does it in such an offensive way, they turn people off?

We must not detract from the Magisterium
Let’s not forget, there is, in fact a magisterium and that it is the teaching body of the Church. .

We must be careful about of gossiping about the state of the church. We must only speak about them when necessary
I am guilty of this although the Holy Spirit often convicts me of this. One night during a break in an all night vigil, I was surprised to see the topic of conversation was this Novus Ordo and this abuse. I felt that I had come from heaven into… well, not heaven.

We must not allow filial devotion of the office of the Papacy to wane.
The Pope may have some defects. Peter did also. But the Pope is still the Pope. Pray for him. I heard someone call a Bishop a “creep” the other day. Totally out of line. We can criticize actions, but to call a successor of the Apostles a creep?

We must be careful of curiosity
We must not focus on reading books and blogs of people who are very acrimonious. Demons will use defects in the church to distract us from our spiritual life. We must intend spend time reading about the faith, and about the Saints of the church. We must read books teach more about the faith as opposed to the problems.
**
We must not beat people over the head with the truth**
Self explanatory, I think.

In summary, we must be humble, and not proud. That doesn’t mean we should be complacent and not work for change, but we must do so in humility and pray for the fortitude to fight till the end.
 
A very good find here. The first three especially I think are true for all practicing Catholics. I know I get discouraged sometimes.
 
🙂 **This is a thread that I will definitely keep!

A great resource that you posted, thanks for sharing that url! 😃

To me, it’s a treasure trove of the Magisterium.

Yes, I’m guilty. I’ll admit publicly to IN SOME MEASURE: Despair and depression (no. 1 as listed).**

:blessyou:

J
 
TrueLight - what a great posting!

As a revert I have been really surprised at some of the strong sentiments I’ve seen expressed at CAF by members of various groups unhappy about things in the Church. I’m just so BLESSED to be back Home, I figure the Lord will work out the “stuff” that needs to be taken care of, if we all just stay humble, pray, and love and serve each other. I know things aren’t perfect, but they never will be this side of heaven - after all we are flawed people living in a fallen world. Humility is so important I think. And really such a difficult thing for us humans - even from the very start in the Garden. We’ve been dealing with that old pride/control/rebellion thing every since! It is just plain hard - and yet what an example of humility and trust we have in Jesus. All of us can agree that He is our role model!
 
I love this thread thank you for sharing. I particularly could relate to being humble with others about the truth and steering well away from things that teach differently to what the Church teaches such as negative blogs and websites etc, Curiosity certainly did “kill the cat” as they say and I have found if I start to just read a little bit of these non Catholic things that speak of the Church doctrine as wrong I personally start to question my beliefs… This is definitely satan at work I have now found.

God bless you and keep you +++ 😃
 
Not sure if I missed a congratulatory thread or not, but welcome home, Truelight!! 🙂
 
Well, I’m going to admit I struggle with all of these things, especially the sin of pride. It is very easy to feel that one has the truth and that one’s form is more reverent than anyone else.

That is not to say I will not do my part, but humility is so important.

I am reading the Diary of Saint Faustina and she has taught me so much about humility. As the homily referenced says, we should pray for those we believe are in the wrong. Not because we are better or more spiritual because we are not. And some graces they receive we may not receive.

The other thing I have learned from Saint Faustina is that the Lord cherishes obedience more than many mortifications.

Sometimes we have to learn to work hard within the confines that we are given instead of going outside those boundaries.
 
Just came across this thread TrueLight.

Very good stuff. Thank you for putting the time reflecting on it and sharing it.

Pax Christi
 
I have just listened to the audio, and I agree that the priest makes some very good points. However, I have to take exception to his saying that these are problems “traditionalists” struggle with. I go to the EF most of the time and therefore know a lot of traditionalists. I have found, for the most part, and certainly there are exceptions, that these are people who are very devoted to God, have a great love for Our Blessed Mother, are very humble, spiritual people and love the Church to the point where they would die for it. They also have a great love for the Pope and pray for him constantly. They tend to do a tremendous amount of spiritual reading, and could discuss with great knowledge the history of the church, various saints, etc. etc.

I feel that what this priest is describing are not Traditionalists, per se, but extremists. He is talking about those who say the NO is invalid, ascribe to sedevacantism, suffer from feelings of doom and gloom and at the same time tend to feel superior to others because they know something that others don’t know. He says the people he is talking about suffer from lack of charity. Those who are truly Traditionalists - not extremists, who tend to suffer a great deal from pride - tend to be very humble, loving people with a very positive, upbeat outlook despite all the problems they see around them because they have a very deep faith. I am only speaking from my own experience, so maybe others have seen something different.

One thing the priest says that bothers me some is that we should have a detachment from a healthy church. I agree that we should not let the problems in the church bother us to the point where it interferes with our spiritual life, but should we just ignore the abuses we see? I heard a priest one time say in a sermon that he had never committed a mortal sin and we probably haven’t either. This same priest also said everyone is going to heaven. I had a priest in confession tell me not to bother to pray the Rosary because it is nothing more than a mantra. Is the priest suggesting that I should just ignore these kinds of things? I have been very upset by these kinds of episodes, but it has actually driven me to pray more.

As I wrote, most Traditionalists have a great love for our Blessed Mother. I have yet to meet anyone with a deep devotion to Mary who has gone off the rails spiritually.

I don’t think the problem is with true Traditionalists, which I will describe as those who have a great love for the traditions of the Church - including and most especially the Mass - that have come down through the centuries. I think the problem is with extremists. There are extreme liberals who feel anything goes, and there are extreme conservatives who feel their way is the only way. That is not the definition of a Traditionalist.

As I was listening to this sermon, I sort of got the feeling that the priest was talking to himself. I imagine he has seen some pretty terrible things in the Church, and is fighting himself not to let it throw him off track, as we all need to do.

Ok - I’m sure I’m going to be told by all of you that I’m just being judgmental and harsh. I don’t think arguing about this will do any good, so you’ll be glad to know that’s all I’m posting on this subject.
 
A_Catholic said:
Ok - I’m sure I’m going to be told by all of you that I’m just being judgmental and harsh. I don’t think arguing about this will do any good, so you’ll be glad to know that’s all I’m posting on this subject.
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All (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated. It fosters great conversation. 👍

I think in general, you really struggle with not adding a bit of negativity to your posts. There really was no need for that last paragraph. It changes the tone of the post completely.

Just my humble opinion.
 
TrueLight said:
All (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated. It fosters great conversation. 👍

I think in general, you really struggle with not adding a bit of negativity to your posts. There really was no need for that last paragraph. It changes the tone of the post completely.

Just my humble opinion.
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I guess it is a bit negative, and I apologize for that. It’s just been my experience in the short time I’ve been on this forum.
 
A_Catholic said:
I guess it is a bit negative, and I apologize for that. It’s just been my experience in the short time I’ve been on this forum.
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I’m sorry that’s been your experience. I personally am trying not be negative. It ain’t easy all the time. But that’s how it is with family. One minute you’re laughing together and one minute you’re fighting. 😛
 
A_Catholic said:
I have just listened to the audio, and I agree that the priest makes some very good points. However, I have to take exception to his saying that these are problems “traditionalists” struggle with. I go to the EF most of the time and therefore know a lot of traditionalists. I have found, for the most part, and certainly there are exceptions, that these are people who are very devoted to God, have a great love for Our Blessed Mother, are very humble, spiritual people and love the Church to the point where they would die for it. They also have a great love for the Pope and pray for him constantly. They tend to do a tremendous amount of spiritual reading, and could discuss with great knowledge the history of the church, various saints, etc. etc.

I feel that what this priest is describing are not Traditionalists, per se, but extremists.
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This is interesting. Maybe I hang out with extremists. I really don’t know.

I would agree with everything you say here, but add that the ones I know tend to be anti Novus Ordo. Not that they say it is invalid, but there is definitely a discouragement from attending.

And I do find a sort of skeptism of post-Vat II documents.

And I’m going to be honest and say there tends to be a judgmental attitude.

I am probably one of the more open-minded, but I do find myself falling into pride all the time when it comes to traditionalism . So that’s why I agree with this audio.

I’d love to hear if this is the experience of others those who attend the EF or hang out with “traditionalists.”
 
I think when it comes Traditionalist, sometimes they tend to be more like traditionalist.

Stuff like EF and OF are not teachings of Tradition but some expound it to the level of a teaching. Say that it cannot be changed etc. But in truth, EF was simply a chosen methodology of worship by the Catholic Church.

Then there is the issue of Post-Vatican II vs Pre-Vatican II which actually is a problem that deals with teachings. In this case, from Tradition we know that we have no choice in the matter. We must give assent to the Post-Vatican II documents just as much as we give our assent to the Pre-Vatican II.

One thing to keep in mind is that the we have to interpret the Post VII together with the Pre VII and vice versa. We cannot interpret either the Post VII alone or Pre VII alone. Most of the time, the Traditionalist are guilty of interpreting the Pre VII alone and non-Traditionalist are of interpreting the Post VII. We must also remember that when not being able to understand how to reconcile two teachings, we must turn to the church for Interpretation. If its not available, we pray. If and when we need to know, God will make it clear how to reconcile them to us either through the Church or through someone else.

However, some non-Traditionalist (both clergy and lay) in the church would make the mistake and try to raise prudential decisions or suggestions in these Post-Vatican II documents to the level of teachings. I think a good example would be Ecumenism. Some practices when it comes to Ecumenism are outright horrendous. Yet, some would gladly try to convince others that the practice is universally GOOD. At that moment, one knowingly/unknowingly crosses the line and raising what was a mere prudential decision to the level of a teaching (which it is not).

The problem with such a mistake is that sometimes the person being told about this is close to the situation can see through reason and experience that it is not the most wise decision. Then the person can only look at the ‘teaching’ and assume that either the church has strayed, Sedevecantism, Atheism and all kinds of other undesirable solutions. All of this when it was not even ‘teaching’ to being with.

Then there are also those who, with a good heart, tend to emphasize certain disciplines and personal choices as the ONLY universal GOOD. For an example, some might say the Franciscan way of Evangelism is the best form and we should all try to be a St.Francis. Problem here is that there are more saints in the church other than St. Francis. Some are called to be like St. Dominic, some are called to be a St. Paul, a St. Peter etc. Not everyone has to make the same choice and not every choice will fit every situation. When someone says that one choice fits all, and one can personally see that the choice is not working through reason and at times through experience, then they unnecessarily loose trust in the church again.

So I think the reason for this ‘split’ between the Church and Traditionalist that takes place today is really unnecessary. It’s always due to either the Traditionalist holding on to a tradition or non-Traditionalist trying to raise prudential decisions to the level of universal teachings.
 
I just came across this thread for the first time.

Thanks TrueLight. I find it very helpful.
 
TrueLight said:
This is interesting. Maybe I hang out with extremists. I really don’t know.

I would agree with everything you say here, but add that the ones I know tend to be anti Novus Ordo. Not that they say it is invalid, but there is definitely a discouragement from attending.

And I do find a sort of skeptism of post-Vat II documents.

And I’m going to be honest and say there tends to be a judgmental attitude.

I am probably one of the more open-minded, but I do find myself falling into pride all the time when it comes to traditionalism . So that’s why I agree with this audio.

I’d love to hear if this is the experience of others those who attend the EF or hang out with “traditionalists.”
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I’m a little confused. I thought from other posts that you attend the EF, and therefore I assumed that you are a traditionalist, even though you are brand new in the church. You even say you even have a problem with pride when it comes to traditionalism, so I assume you prefer more traditional Catholicism. But you seem to have a problem with traditionalist attitudes? :confused:
 
A_Catholic said:
I’m a little confused. I thought from other posts that you attend the EF, and therefore I assumed that you are a traditionalist, even though you are brand new in the church. You even say you even have a problem with pride when it comes to traditionalism, so I assume you prefer more traditional Catholicism. But you seem to have a problem with traditionalist attitudes? :confused:
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I am a traditionalist but I do see the kinds of sins we can fall into as opined in the audio.
 
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