Ten Commandments

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biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/10%20Commandments.htm

Since the 10 commandments were presented on two tablets, I would have to say that the Jewish list is the most internally consistent, with the First Commandment of the first tablet conforming with the first commandment of the second tablet( Jewish Commandment #6), the second with Tablet 2, commandment 2(#7(, and so on. with 5 corresponding to 10.

As above, so below, asit is in heaven so shall it be on earth.

The logical consistency between the 10 commandments on the two tablets may be a little hard to notice at first glance, but it is there.

I don’t think the same can be said about the Catholic or Protestant lists, even if they are all complete in their own way.
 
Why are you taking your info from non-Catholic sites? Do you think the church doesn’t know what it’s doing? Who will you trust?

People who follow the teaching of men who departed from doctrinal truth some 500 years ago?

People who reject Our Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah?

You should have looked here first.

From a search of the Ask an Apologist forum.

Who’s right about the Ten Commandments?
 
biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/10%20Commandments.htm

Since the 10 commandments were presented on two tablets, I would have to say that the Jewish list is the most internally consistent, with the First Commandment of the first tablet conforming with the first commandment of the second tablet( Jewish Commandment #6), the second with Tablet 2, commandment 2(#7(, and so on. with 5 corresponding to 10.

As above, so below, asit is in heaven so shall it be on earth.

The logical consistency between the 10 commandments on the two tablets may be a little hard to notice at first glance, but it is there.

I don’t think the same can be said about the Catholic or Protestant lists, even if they are all complete in their own way.
You do have to remember though that the rabbis themselves did not agree on whether the ‘Ten Words’ were divided between the two Tablets of the Law (five on one and five on the other) or whether one tablet contained all ten, with the other being a duplicate. In the Mekhilta (an early midrashic collection on Exodus ascribed pseudonymously to Rabbi Ishmael, AD 90-135), Rabbi Hanina ben Gamaliel is quoted as expressing: “How were the Ten Commandments given? Five on one tablet and five on the other. ‘I am the Lord’ was written across ‘You shall not murder’…but the Sages say ten on one tablet and ten on the other.

As an aside, personally I think the latter is more likely from a historical POV: because the Commandments establish a covenant, it is likely that they were duplicated on both tablets, one copy for each party involved (God and Israel). It was customary in the Ancient Near East for every written treaty to be issued in duplicate, each party receiving a complete copy. One example of this is the treaty containing the pact made between Ramses II and the Hittite King Hattusilis III, c. 1270 B.C. The Egyptian copy was found in Egypt, and the Hittite one in the capital of the Hittites, in eastern Turkey. The contents of both copies are (nearly) identical.

If this is the case, then one tablet would be Israel’s copy of the covenant, while the other was God’s. Now, when a covenant was struck between parties of unequal status, the lesser partner, or vassal, would place his copy of the pact in a temple, the reason being that the vassal had then to take an oath in the name of his god to the sovereign. Depositing a copy in the temple of the vassal strengthened the vassal’s obligation to the greater king. In addition, sanctity was ascribed to the treaty itself, because the gods of each side were witness to the agreement. Since the Israelites were the lesser partners to the covenant, it was natural to file their copy ‘under the feet’ of the God of Israel (i.e. the Ark).
 
Since this might be relevant, I would post a couple of stuff I wrote a while ago:
The Ten Words (more popularly known as “Ten Commandments”) as given in Exodus 20 are not clearly divided: there are at least up to fourteen or fifteen imperatives in it. It was thus up to various people how to parse these up into ten.

Let us first go into the so-called Philonic Division. Our Catholic readers might recognize these as the division usually employed by many Protestants, that it sometimes has an infamous reputation among some as the ‘Protestant Division’ of the Commandments: what is not so well-known among both sides is that this is also the one usually employed by the Eastern Churches. Now, why is it called ‘Philonic’? The simple answer is because it is found in the writings of Philo and Josephus, who both employ this reckoning - out of the three (Philonic, Augustinian, Talmudic/Rabbinic), this one is apparently the earliest:

Now the most excellent five were of this character, they related to the monarchial principle on which the world is governed; to images and statues, and in short to all erections of any kind made by hand; to the duty of not taking the name of God in vain; to that of keeping the holy seventh day in a manner worthy of its holiness; to paying honour to parents both separately to each, and commonly to both. So that of the one table the beginning is the God and Father and Creator of the universe; and the end are one’s parents, who imitate his nature, and so generate the particular individuals. And the other table of five contains all the prohibitions against adulteries, and murder, and theft, and false witness, and covetousness.
Having said this, he led the people forward, together with the women and children, so that they might hear God converse with them concerning what they must do, in order that the excellence of spoken words might not be harmed by a human tongue in being transmitted to their knowledge. All heard a voice coming from on high to all, so that none of the ten sayings escaped them that Moyses left inscribed on the two tablets. It is not permitted for us to speak them openly verbatim, but we shall reveal their contents.

The first saying teaches us that God is one and that it is necessary to worship him alone. The second bids us to make an image of no living being or to worship it, the third to swear by God on nothing insignificant, the fourth to observe the seventh days by ceasing from all work, the fifth to honor parents, the sixth to desist from murder (φόνου), the seventh not to commit adultery, the eighth not to engage in theft, the ninth not to bear false witness, and the tenth to desire (ἐπιθυμίαν) nothing belonging to another.
  • Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 3.89-92 (5.5)
I have heard some express this idea that this division was formulated by Protestants just to give a justification for the iconoclastic tendencies some movements had directed against the Romish ‘superstition’. Even so, I believe that this is a gross misconception that must be put to rest, as we have here evidence that this division had already existed before Protestantism even came into the scene.

Also, we cannot say it was done for iconoclastic purposes or that each and everyone of those who use the division are ‘iconoclastic’, since we would have to accuse the Eastern Churches - who use imagery as well and have themselves took a good deal of damage during the Iconoclast heresy in the 8th-9th centuries, as well as Origen (who did adopt it in his Homilies on Exodus, Homily 8 On the Beginning of the Decalogue), St. Gregory of Nazianzus (The Decalogue of Moses) and St. Jerome (Commentary on Ephesians 6) of being iconoclastic themselves. 🤷
 
The second is the so-called Talmudic Division used by Jews today, and one that appears - or at least inferred - in the Babylonian Talmud (Tractate Makkot 24a). Since some readers may not be familiar with it, here is how the commandments are divided.

1.) I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
2.) You shall have no other gods before me.
3.) You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.
4.) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
5.) Honor your father and your mother.
6.) You shall not murder.
7.) You shall not commit adultery.
8.) You shall not steal.
9.) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10.) You shall not covet.

The Targum Pseudo-Jonathan (usually dated to around the 7th century, or perhaps even much later into the medieval period) says this in its version of Exodus 20:

The first word, as it came forth from the mouth of the Holy One, whose Name be blessed, was like storms, and lightnings, and flames of fire, with a burning light on His right hand and on His left. It winged its way through the air of the heavens, and was made manifest unto the camp of Israel, and returned, and was engraved on the tablets of the covenant that were given by the hand of Mosheh, and were turned in them from side to side: and then called He, and said, “Sons of Israel, my people, I am the Lord your God, who brought you out free from the land of Mizraim, from the house of the bondage of slaves.

The second word which came forth from the mouth of the Holy One, whose Name be blessed, was like storms, and lightnings, and flames of fire. A burning light was on His right hand and on His left and was borne through the air of the heavens, returned, and was made manifest unto the camp of Israel; it returned, and was engraved on the tablets of the covenant, and was turned in them from side to side. Then called He, and said, "*House of Israel, my people, you shall have no other God besides me. You shall not make to yourselves image or figure, or any likeness of what is in the heavens above, or on the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, or worship before them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God and an avenger, punishing with vengeance, recording the guilt of wicked fathers upon rebellious children unto the third and unto the fourth generation of them who hate me; but keeping mercy and goodness for thousands of generations of the righteous who love me, and who keep my commandments and my laws.

My people of the house of Israel, let no one of you swear by the name of the Word of the Lord your God in vain; for in the day of the great judgment the Lord will not hold guiltless any one who swears by His name in vain…*"

There is a Jewish legend about how God only was just done saying two commandments when the people, terrified of the Divine voice and the various phenomena, asked Moses speak instead. Rashi in his Commentary on Exodus 19:19 refers to it:

When Moses would speak and make the Decalogue heard to Israel - for they heard from the mouth of God only “I am…” and “You shall not have” (Makkot 24a) - the Holy One, blessed be He, would assist him [Moses] by giving him strength so that his voice would be strong and audible.

Not surprisingly, writers such as Maimonides (in his Sefer ha-Mitzvot) used this division. Ibn Ezra, in his commentary on Deuteronomy, notes that while “all the scholars of antiquity believed that the First Commandment is ‘I am’”, thinks it odd that God would give two commandments straight and only then pause, which led him to propose that ‘I am the LORD’ is the preamble “[introducing] the Commander”, while the first commandment is “You shall no other gods”. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house” would be the ninth commandment, while not coveting your neighbor’s wife is the tenth.

In his anti-Christian polemic Against the Galileans, Julian the Apostate - as quoted by St. Cyril of Jerusalem - shows that he is also familiar with this reckoning or something similar to it, which may show that this also has quite a bit of an early origin (Julian reigned from 360 to 363):

That is a surprising law of Moses, I mean the famous decalogue! “Thou shalt not steal.” “Thou shalt not kill.” “Thou shalt not bear false witness.” But let me write out word for word every one of the commandments which he says were written by God himself.

“I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt.” Then follows the second: “Thou shalt have no other gods but me.” “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.” And then he adds the reason : " For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third generation." “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.” “Remember the sabbath day.” “Honour thy father and thy mother.” " Thou shalt not commit adultery." “Thou shalt not kill.” “Thou shalt not steal.” “Thou shalt not bear false witness.” “Thou shalt not covet anything that is thy neighbour’s.”

Now except for the command “Thou shalt not worship other gods,” and “Remember the sabbath day,” what nation is there, I ask in the name of the gods, which does not think that it ought to keep the other commandments? So much so that penalties have been ordained against those who transgress them, sometimes more severe, and sometimes similar to those enacted by Moses, though they are sometimes more humane.
 
The ten commandments,on two tablets, In all honesty and obviousness,i would summarize as an obvious statement that the 10 commandments are generally 2,and so such was how it was given.
 
Going with the logic that the ten commandments serve as a blueprint for what the Bible is about, there is an internal consistency between the first five and the last.

Five principles are involved, the first portion involving the world of creators, the last, the world of peers

World of Creators
World of Peers.
I: God simply is. Do not ‘murder’ God through disbelief
VI: Do not murder. “if conclusion is our life is better without a person or a god, then we kill through denial or through murder.

II: Idolatry: Worshiping other gods, being unfaithful to god by bringing someone in who does not belong “a jealous god”
VII: Adultery Being unfaithful involves the same kind of betrayal against one’s own spouse.

III Take Gods name in Vain “do not lift off God’s Name’ ie plagiarism using God’s name to enhance your own, bearing God as a banner if you will to do evil.
VIII Do not steal. The same principle involved, illicitly using the goods belonging to others, to enhance your own life.

IV Sabbath, a true Testimony that God is creator who rested on seventh day. This is telling the truth about God, testifying about God through our very beings, refrain from creation on the day of rest, as God refrained from his creation.
IX False Witness. The same principle of true testimony to tell the truth about one’s peers is involved here too.

V Honor our Parents, our own personal creators in effect.
X Not coveting, in effect gratitude for the life that we have been given, gratitude for the life that our parents gave us by not wishing ourselves into the lives of others, being jealous and envious of the lives given by other parents.

This fifth principle against obsessive coveting is harder to see. It is mimetic desire of a Rene Girard, where what is really desired is to be the other person, to be somebody else, somebody better than the life given to us by our own parents.

5 Principle of the Ten Commandments

1 Recognize the existence of the other

2 Don’t adulterate a sacred relationship

3 Don’t take away the other things
  1. Tell the truth about the other.
  2. Recognize the value of your life.
 
Biblically speaking of course, the ten commandments do not come with their own Roman numerals showing where the one begins and the next ends. The different ways of expressing these commandments represent different modes of teaching basically the same thing.

There is no archeological proof of what was on tablet one, and what was on tablet two, nor is that point even the most critical. Likely there never will be that kind of proof.

I find it interesting though, how the tablets were turned into a teachable moment here, to help elucidate the basic principles that are a Biblical truth first and foremost, based in the Bible, and not so much as to where the actual Roman numerals are placed in our lists derived from the same passages.

Catholic Rene Girard did not need to relate the coveting of the ninth and tenth commandments on the Catholic list to the idea of honoring one’s mother and father to recognize the principle of mimetic desire that is being taught. The same five principles can be derived from reading the commandments and the Bible no matter where the divisions of the commandments are placed, no matter how many tablets there are.

As for myself, I appreciated how another religion helped me to relate to the relevancy of the ten commandments once more. It doesn’t make me any less of a Catholic, I don’t think, to give credit where credit is due.

Rabbi Fohmann did some excellent work here.
I appreciated it. And that is why I am sharing it here in the ‘other religions’ forum. There are indeed truths that we can learn from each other.
 
biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/10%20Commandments.htm

Since the 10 commandments were presented on two tablets, I would have to say that the Jewish list is the most internally consistent, with the First Commandment of the first tablet conforming with the first commandment of the second tablet( Jewish Commandment #6), the second with Tablet 2, commandment 2(#7(, and so on. with 5 corresponding to 10.

As above, so below, asit is in heaven so shall it be on earth.

The logical consistency between the 10 commandments on the two tablets may be a little hard to notice at first glance, but it is there.

I don’t think the same can be said about the Catholic or Protestant lists, even if they are all complete in their own way.
While I disagree with the premise of the website’s agrument, I appreciate its honesty in recognizing that the Lutheran reformers retained the numbering of the 10 Commandments consistently used in the Western Church prior to the Reformation.

Jon
 
God and the Jews fundamentally changed the way all people regarded religion. Until the Jews, religion was something that dealt with man’s relationship to God. The Jews irrevocably changed that concept.For Jews religion dealt not only with man’s relationship to God but also man’s relationship to other people.

The second revolution was the connection between laws and commandments and God. The concept of laws was already well known. However, with God’s revelation to the entire Jewish nation at Sinai, we establish the concept that these laws and commandments are not merely rules to be followed but a Divine imperative.

If we understand those concepts we can understand the division of the ten commandments.The first five commandments (having faith in God’s existence, prohibition of idolatry, prohibition of vain oaths, the Sabbath and honoring parents [which in Judaism is equal to honoring God] - all deal with the relationship between man and God. The second five commandments (prohibition against murder,prohibition against adultery,prohibition against kidnapping [usually misunderstood to mean simple theft],prohibition against bearing false witness and prohibition against coveting) - all deal with relationships among people.
 
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