Ten Latin Traditions

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What are ten traditions in the traditional order of the Mass that are not found or little found in the new order of the Mass? If you can think of traditions little known outside the traditional community, please mention them!

Here, you can enter the top ten below:
 
Madaglan said:
What are ten traditions in the traditional order of the Mass that are not found or little found in the new order of the Mass? If you can think of traditions little known outside the traditional community, please mention them!

Here, you can enter the top ten below:
Click to expand...
  1. Celebrating Mass facing the Lord rather than the people.
    2)Use of an actual altar instead of a table.
  2. “Mysterium fidei”
  3. Emphasis on Sacrifice, rather than community supper.
  4. Host is received kneeling, on the tongue.
  5. Only priest–and deacon if there is one–handles sacred vessels and the Eucharist.
  6. Sacred music vs. Marty Haugen & Co.
  7. Prayers at the foot of the altar…in the Novus, a real altar is rarely used, and there are no prayers at the foot of the Cranmer table used in the NO.
  8. Priest is at the altar the entire Mass, instead of sitting by idly while laypeople take over his roles and getting up only to confect the sacrament.
    10)The entire traditional Latin Mass developed organically over centuries, and most of it to the 5th century, is fully Catholic, whereas the Novus Ordo is a “banal, man-made, on-the-spot production” (Pope Benedict’s words, not mine) which was created to bring the Catholic Mass more in line with the Protestant/Lutheran Supper.
 
MrDickerson said:
  1. Celebrating Mass facing the Lord rather than the people.
    2)Use of an actual altar instead of a table.
  2. “Mysterium fidei”
  3. Emphasis on Sacrifice, rather than community supper.
  4. Host is received kneeling, on the tongue.
  5. Only priest–and deacon if there is one–handles sacred vessels and the Eucharist.
  6. Sacred music vs. Marty Haugen & Co.
  7. Prayers at the foot of the altar…in the Novus, a real altar is rarely used, and there are no prayers at the foot of the Cranmer table used in the NO.
  8. Priest is at the altar the entire Mass, instead of sitting by idly while laypeople take over his roles and getting up only to confect the sacrament.
    10)The entire traditional Latin Mass developed organically over centuries, and most of it to the 5th century, is fully Catholic, whereas the Novus Ordo is a “banal, man-made, on-the-spot production” (Pope Benedict’s words, not mine) which was created to bring the Catholic Mass more in line with the Protestant/Lutheran Supper.
Click to expand...
So which form do you prefer ?

J+M+J
 
Madaglan said:
What are ten traditions in the traditional order of the Mass that are not found or little found in the new order of the Mass? If you can think of traditions little known outside the traditional community, please mention them!

Here, you can enter the top ten below:
Click to expand...
No particular order, and I purposely excluded things that could licitly be done at a NO but just aren’t common (Ad Orientem, Latin, Communion Kneeling, etc.)
  1. Prayers at Foot of the Altar
  2. Old Communion prayer “Corpus Domini Nostri…”
  3. Second Confiteor
  4. Last Gospel
  5. Leonine Prayers
  6. Silence
  7. “Mysterium Fidei”
  8. The old offertory
  9. Random “Tridentinisms” (as my priest calls them): Missal has to be laid facing a certain direction, priest has to turn a certain way even in Low Mass because in the High Mass the priest can’t turn his back on the deacon, the priest has to keep his fingers together while distributing communion, etc.
  10. Can’t think of a tenth, but I’d love to see an end to Gothic Chasubles in favor of Fiddlebacks
 
JuanCarlos said:
No particular order, and I purposely excluded things that could licitly be done at a NO but just aren’t common (Ad Orientem, Latin, Communion Kneeling, etc.)
  1. Prayers at Foot of the Altar
  2. Old Communion prayer “Corpus Domini Nostri…”
  3. Second Confiteor
  4. Last Gospel
  5. Leonine Prayers
  6. Silence
  7. “Mysterium Fidei”
  8. The old offertory
  9. Random “Tridentinisms” (as my priest calls them): Missal has to be laid facing a certain direction, priest has to turn a certain way even in Low Mass because in the High Mass the priest can’t turn his back on the deacon, the priest has to keep his fingers together while distributing communion, etc.
  10. Can’t think of a tenth, but I’d love to see an end to Gothic Chasubles in favor of Fiddlebacks
Click to expand...
I’m not jumping into this thread but I will make two minor observations:

The “second Confiteor” was first suppressed in 1960 and that suppression carried through to the 1962 Missale Romanum. At best, it was a 16th century addition that seems to have come from from the ceremony of administration of Holy Communion outside of Mass, and is certainly not integral to the Ordo Missae. Some will argue that it could (or even should) still be done, but as far as I’m concerned the fact of the Missal is the fact of the Missal. My personal opinion is that I found it unnecessarily redundant and don’t miss it one bit.

The Leonine Prayers were never part of the Ordo Missae in the first place.
 
malphono said:
I’m not jumping into this thread but I will make two minor observations:

The “second Confiteor” was first suppressed in 1960 and that suppression carried through to the 1962 Missale Romanum. At best, it was a 16th century addition that seems to have come from from the ceremony of administration of Holy Communion outside of Mass, and is certainly not integral to the Ordo Missae. Some will argue that it could (or even should) still be done, but as far as I’m concerned the fact of the Missal is the fact of the Missal. My personal opinion is that I found it unnecessarily redundant and don’t miss it one bit.

The Leonine Prayers were never part of the Ordo Missae in the first place.
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I’m not arguing it is integral, but I always liked it.
 
Chatter163 said:
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Click to expand...
As in the priest, when turning to go do something on the altar, has to always turn a certain direction.

After 2000 years of development, the TLM has directives on everything- even what to do if you skip a part of the Mass by accident (Which my priest said is one of the thing he misses 😉 )
 
As in the priest, when turning to go do something on the altar, has to always turn a certain direction.

After 2000 years of development, the TLM has directives on everything- even what to do if you skip a part of the Mass by accident (Which my priest said is one of the thing he misses 😉 )
Click to expand...
Yes, I am familiar with the EF. But there is no rubric that directs the celebrant not to turn his back on the deacon. In fact, he does so repeatedly throughout the Mass.
 
Chatter163 said:
Yes, I am familiar with the EF. But there is no rubric that directs the celebrant not to turn his back on the deacon. In fact, he does so repeatedly throughout the Mass.
Click to expand...
I dont know about the Deacon, but I know he is unable to turn his back on the Tabernacle(assuming it is located in the center). It does however need to be clarified that this only means that if i draw a line straight through the priest, it shouldn’t also go through the tabernacle. The rubrics are set up so that the Priest is always to the side of the Tabernacle when he turns around.

If I had to do my 10(again not doing things that are licit in OF)
1)Prayers at the Foot
2)Maniple(I like vestments, dont judge me:D )
3)Communion Prayer
4)No Concelebration(I am not against concelebration, but I understand why it is not the ideal)
5)Altar Cards(some are pretty awesome looking)
6)Leonine Prayers
7)inaudible-ness
8)Last Gospel
9)Subdeacons
10)Genuflecting for Creed and Last Gospel
 
**There are sooooooooo many new changes, since the new Mass came. Its truly saddening to put both missals side by side and compare the Mass. They have changed MANY THINGS, cut down the amounts of Signs of the Cross, Genuflections to Our Lord, the prayers to Our Lady, etc. It is very serious. Please read the Popes “Motu Proprio”. And also look up Michael Davies books. May he rest in peace. Since the New Mass came, see the dramatic drop in Religious vocations, Mass attendance etc. If you are honetly seeking the truth and want to become a Saint…you truly need to study your Faith. ie Read The Holy Bible(Douay Rheims), Doctrines and teachings of Catholicism, Lives of the Saints, The Popes Encyclicals, Roman Catechism and books on virtue(e.g. Imitation of Christ- Thomas.A.Kempis). And obviously pray your Daily Rosary etc. May God bless you all on your search for the truth. I will pray for you all.

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
-John 8

No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it.
-Saint Maximilian Kolbe **
 
weezi said:
**There are sooooooooo many new changes, since the new Mass came. Its truly saddening to put both missals side by side and compare the Mass. They have changed MANY THINGS, cut down the amounts of Signs of the Cross, Genuflections to Our Lord, the prayers to Our Lady, etc. It is very serious. Please read the Popes “Motu Proprio”. And also look up Michael Davies books. May he rest in peace. Since the New Mass came, see the dramatic drop in Religious vocations, Mass attendance etc. If you are honetly seeking the truth and want to become a Saint…you truly need to study your Faith. ie Read The Holy Bible(Douay Rheims), Doctrines and teachings of Catholicism, Lives of the Saints, The Popes Encyclicals, Roman Catechism and books on virtue(e.g. Imitation of Christ- Thomas.A.Kempis). And obviously pray your Daily Rosary etc. May God bless you all on your search for the truth. I will pray for you all.

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
-John 8

No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it.
-Saint Maximilian Kolbe **
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum 👋
 
Chatter163 said:
Yes, I am familiar with the EF. But there is no rubric that directs the celebrant not to turn his back on the deacon. In fact, he does so repeatedly throughout the Mass.
Click to expand...
From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Catholic Encyclopedia said:
This high Mass is the norm; it is only in the complete rite with deacon and subdeacon that the ceremonies can be understood. Thus, the rubrics of the Ordinary of the Mass always suppose that the Mass is high. Low Mass, said by a priest alone with one server, is a shortened and simplified form of the same thing. Its ritual can be explained only by a reference to high Mass. For instance, the celebrant goes over to the north side of the altar to read the Gospel, because that is the side to which the deacon goes in procession at high Mass; he turns round always by the right, because at high Mass he should not turn his back to the deacon and so on.
Click to expand...
 
weezi said:
**There are sooooooooo many new changes, since the new Mass came. Its truly saddening to put both missals side by side and compare the Mass. They have changed MANY THINGS, cut down the amounts of Signs of the Cross, Genuflections to Our Lord, the prayers to Our Lady, etc. It is very serious. Please read the Popes “Motu Proprio”. And also look up Michael Davies books. May he rest in peace. Since the New Mass came, see the dramatic drop in Religious vocations, Mass attendance etc. If you are honetly seeking the truth and want to become a Saint…you truly need to study your Faith. ie Read The Holy Bible(Douay Rheims), Doctrines and teachings of Catholicism, Lives of the Saints, The Popes Encyclicals, Roman Catechism and books on virtue(e.g. Imitation of Christ- Thomas.A.Kempis). And obviously pray your Daily Rosary etc. May God bless you all on your search for the truth. I will pray for you all.

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
-John 8

No one in the world can change Truth. What we can do and should do is to seek truth and to serve it when we have found it.
-Saint Maximilian Kolbe **
Click to expand...
The problem is not the New Mass, but the lack of reverence that unfortunately seems to accompany it. My parish has NO’s every bit as reverent as the TLM is- kneeling to receive communion, Latin, only male altar servers, no EMHC, only the Host, etc etc.

Although personally I still prefer the TLM 😃
 
SenorSalsa said:
I dont know about the Deacon, but I know he is unable to turn his back on the Tabernacle(assuming it is located in the center). It does however need to be clarified that this only means that if i draw a line straight through the priest, it shouldn’t also go through the tabernacle. The rubrics are set up so that the Priest is always to the side of the Tabernacle when he turns around.

If I had to do my 10(again not doing things that are licit in OF)
1)Prayers at the Foot
2)Maniple(I like vestments, dont judge me:D )
3)Communion Prayer
4)No Concelebration(I am not against concelebration, but I understand why it is not the ideal)
5)Altar Cards(some are pretty awesome looking)
6)Leonine Prayers
7)inaudible-ness
8)Last Gospel
9)Subdeacons
10)Genuflecting for Creed and Last Gospel
Click to expand...
I’ve seen NO maniples…

And yes, Altar cards are awesome!
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Click to expand...
he turns round always by the right, because at high Mass he should not turn his back to the deacon and so on.

What about this?
http://www.ewtn.com/art/latin_mass/pic1.jpg

or this?
http://www.fssp.org/album/HEWTN2007/013 ewtn, introitus.jpg

or this?


http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/131/fsspewtn3ls5.jpg
http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0002/A9/6E/A96E40C119758F87FE9EF8.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8839/brompton4no6.jpg
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
And so on.

There are several places in the Solemn Mass where the priest’s back is to the deacon, including:

Whenever the priest is in the center of the altar, with the deacon and subdeacon at their places on the altar steps, which includes during the Dominus vobiscum, the preface, the Pater Noster.

At the epistle side, during the postcommunion collect.

The last gospel.
 
Chatter163 said:
he turns round always by the right, because at high Mass he should not turn his back to the deacon and so on.

What about this?
http://www.ewtn.com/art/latin_mass/pic1.jpg

or this?
http://www.fssp.org/album/HEWTN2007/013 ewtn, introitus.jpg

or this?
Theology Overview | Princeton Theological Seminary

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/131/fsspewtn3ls5.jpg
http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0002/A9/6E/A96E40C119758F87FE9EF8.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8839/brompton4no6.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lc54S7qQAOs/RuvVJbvVthI/AAAAAAAAA6s/ih4hh3-iSQY/s400/IMG_0838.jpg
And so on.

There are several places in the Solemn Mass where the priest’s back is to the deacon, including:

Whenever the priest is in the center of the altar, with the deacon and subdeacon at their places on the altar steps, which includes during the Dominus vobiscum, the preface, the Pater Noster.

At the epistle side, during the postcommunion collect.

The last gospel.
Click to expand...
I don’t claim to be an expert, I’m just going off what the Catholic encyclopedia said. If you want to find it yourself look up “Liturgy of the Mass” on New Advent.

Maybe my quote refers to the parts when the priest moves, or turns to face the faithful- notice the deacon is at the right end of the altar in all the pics, and the CE says the priest always turns right.

Truth be told I’ve never been to a Pontifical High Mass so I wouldn’t know from experience.
 
Maybe my quote refers to the parts when the priest moves, or turns to face the faithful- notice the deacon is at the right end of the altar in all the pics, and the CE says the priest always turns right.
Click to expand...
Except at the Orate, fratres and before the last gospel, this is true.

Actually the deacon is at the epistle (right) side of the altar in only one of the pictures (at the introit); in all of the others, he is directly behind the priest, which is why I chose them. This is the way in which Mas is done, rubrically correct.
 
On top of the other things mentioned, I like singing the Credo, and I’m a member of our schola, so we do the gregorian chants. It makes me wish I went to a parish attatched to a monastary or convent, to have the music done by people who know what they’re doing (presumably).
I like the silence, as well. I’m getting to the point now where I can catch what gestures the priest is making and know where he is in the Mass, and know just what’s happening. I think it’s in the silence, straining to hear something, that you can hear the voice of the Mass. I know I never would have appreciated it without having been raised on the Nodus Ordo, knowing what various parts of the Mass mean and what not, so I still greatly appreciate the NO. I think someone before me here said that the problem doesn’t lie with the NO, it’s the lack of reverence that seems to follow it around. Our parish is just as reverent with the NO, especially at High Mass - incense, a zillion altar boys, etc etc.

On the flip side, one thing I’m grateful to the NO for that you don’t get in the TLM are those few times, those special days, most often Easter and Christmas, when a good, faithful priest or bishop or what have you will sing the Communion antiphon (I think that’s what it’s called?). That brings me to tears every time.
 
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