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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Can any current Mormons convince me that this is inaccurate?
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spoiltvictorian
Guest
#1 is pretty accurate. It’s the same tactic Amway salesmen use when they say “don’t worry, we’re not trying to sell you something” to throw justly suspicious people off and embarrass them in front of the more gullible targets.
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BartBurk
Guest
My take would be that Mormons aren’t lying because they believe what they are teaching.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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I could see that with some of his points.
How about number 1?
That seems pretty straight forward.
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ChristIsLord
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it’s not a lie if you believe it, however i suppose #1 would be if he told people he wasn’t there to convert them when in fact he most certainly was. the rest was part of his faith at the time, he believed whole heartedly so they wouldn’t be lies.
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Genesis315
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With the exception of number 1, if this guy was lying then, he’s still lying now because his beliefs are still riddled with errors when compared to the true Christian faith. However, I wouldn’t go so far as to accuse him of lying (accept for number 1 which he admits). He was just wrong then and he’s still wrong now–just in a different way.
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BartBurk
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If he actually said that it was a lie. I don’t know many Mormon missionaries who actually said that when I was on a mission.
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Tonks40
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It’s a matter of intent. The whole point of missionary work in any denomination is to eventually convert people to their beliefs.
#1 is just one of their diversions from their real intent.
#1 is just one of their diversions from their real intent.
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zaramarie81
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Seems to me the word “lie” is the wrong word to use here. These are simply teachings Mormons believe, which I assume he genuinely believed at the time. As others have pointed out, you are not lying if you believe it. I find writing like this nauseating. It paints an unfair picture of Mormons as liars, and I’ve seen plenty of people treat Catholics in a similarly unfair manner, even citing former Catholics to “prove” how terrible Catholicism is. If you want to discuss beliefs with Mormons, do so in a respectful manner, not with stuff like this.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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Given that the writer is an ex mormon, he should know whether he thought he was telling the truth at the time.
I agree that ignorance makes lying impossible, but we don’t know if he was ignorant.
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zaramarie81
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I’m just saying given the style of writing, it seems he is confusing “lie” with flawed belief. No, we don’t know what was in his heart, but this article does not seem to be about his heart, but about the truth or error of Mormon belief.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
I agree.
However, I am aware of intentional distortion of Mormon history by Church leaders.
The Kinderhook plates episode being one blatant example.
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zaramarie81
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Good point. An article exploring deception - personal or in the institution - could be a very helpful read. My concern with this piece is that he doesn’t really do that effectively - the title doesn’t match the text, which implies sensationalism. If someone wrote “10 Lies I Told as a Catholic Priest,” then didn’t clarify but simply listed 10 doctrines we believe, I would be pretty insulted.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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That’s a good point.Good point. An article exploring deception - personal or in the institution - could be a very helpful read. My concern with this piece is that he doesn’t really do that effectively - the title doesn’t match the text, which implies sensationalism. If someone wrote “10 Lies I Told as a Catholic Priest,” then didn’t clarify but simply listed 10 doctrines we believe, I would be pretty insulted.
I was persuaded to post the article because I agreed that the opinions he once held were false.
I should have used a different heading.
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William_M
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Chestertonrules:
Can any current Mormons convince you that WHAT is inaccurate? That there is a dreadful fate for liars?
Obviously not, the Book of Mormon teaches:“Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down into hell.” 2 Nephi 9:34.
That it is inaccurate that this ex-Mormon author of “Ten Lies I Told” was lying while he was on his mission?
As to the author’s points 2 through 9, I know that those things are true, even if the author has lost his testimony, but I would not expect to be able to convince you of that.
As to the author’s point 1, it is obvious that extremely few people in 20th or 21st Century America would think that a missionary knocking on their front door had any ultimate objective other than conversion. If the author ever really did tell anyone “we are not here to convert you”, then he must have been an idiot, not to mention totally ineffective as a missionary.
There must have been a dozen different missionaries who taught me and my family. They were from big cities and small towns in Utah, Idaho, other parts of the United States, South America and Europe. From the very first pair, who came knocking on my front door, not a single one ever even equivocated about why they were there and, if they had, I would have laughed.
Chestertonrules, and I mean this as good-spirited constructive criticism, this was not a useful thread.
Can any current Mormons convince you that WHAT is inaccurate? That there is a dreadful fate for liars?
Obviously not, the Book of Mormon teaches:“Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down into hell.” 2 Nephi 9:34.
That it is inaccurate that this ex-Mormon author of “Ten Lies I Told” was lying while he was on his mission?
As to the author’s points 2 through 9, I know that those things are true, even if the author has lost his testimony, but I would not expect to be able to convince you of that.
As to the author’s point 1, it is obvious that extremely few people in 20th or 21st Century America would think that a missionary knocking on their front door had any ultimate objective other than conversion. If the author ever really did tell anyone “we are not here to convert you”, then he must have been an idiot, not to mention totally ineffective as a missionary.
There must have been a dozen different missionaries who taught me and my family. They were from big cities and small towns in Utah, Idaho, other parts of the United States, South America and Europe. From the very first pair, who came knocking on my front door, not a single one ever even equivocated about why they were there and, if they had, I would have laughed.
Chestertonrules, and I mean this as good-spirited constructive criticism, this was not a useful thread.
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Jimdandy
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:clapping:ChestertonrulesRevelation 21:8)
Chestertonrules, and I mean this as good-spirited constructive criticism, this was not a useful thread.
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emarc
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a man helped his debilitated grandpa kill himself (eutanasia). he believed in his heart he was helping him so he wouldn’t suffer. did he commit a crime?
God bless.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
You are entitled to your opinion.
I think the value of this thread is that it exposes the falsehoods propagated by Mormons, whether the Mormons are sincere or not.
Mormons mislead others when they claim to hold common Christian beliefs, even if they are doing so in ignorance.
This particular convert from Mormonism considers his previous statements to be lies.
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Good_Fella
Guest
Once while I was sitting at a park picnic table having a game of chess against my computer board game, I was approached by three Mormons. One of them sat down opposite me and began to casually ask me questions concerning my interest in chess. And he told me that he liked to play chess, too. After the brief preliminaries, he asked me if I knew anything about his religion. I frankly said that I did and as a Catholic I didn’t agree with much of Mormon teachings. Oddly enough he didn’t pursue what I had told him by asking me which teachings I didn’t agree with. I guess he really did enjoy playing chess, because the first thing he did after my reply was to ask me if I’d have a game with him. We played two games while his companions stood and watched. The topic of religion never resurfaced. I have a feeling that these Mormons had been walking around town all day and were in need of a little R&R. They may also have been dejected by the time they reached me after a long day of failure in their attempts to sell their product to gullible people and decided to drop their mission for the time being, seeing that I was not interested in what they were trying to sell.
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zaramarie81
Guest
So, I guess we should call all the Protestants who subscribe to beliefs like sola scriptura on this board liars, too? I’m sorry, I am just not seeing the “value” here in the way this article was presented and written.
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