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What happens during a Tenebrae service? I’ve read about it but it’s still hard to understand.What day is it held on Spy Wednesday or Good Friday?
Do Catholics still practice this regularly? None of the Catholic churches around me do, which is why I said what I did! The local Lutheran church does this every year. If it is a familiar custom in the Catholic Church, why is it that few of the Catholics I speak with have any idea what I am talking about? I could go to any Lutheran here, and they would know exactly what I am talking about, and far more Lutherans in my area attend Good Friday Tenebrae Service than Catholics attend their Good Friday Services. I kid you not!\As a former Lutheran, I attended Tenebrae services every Good Friday. I have never found anything equivalent to it in the Catholic Church.\
Where do you think the Lutherans got Tenebrae, down to the Strepitus, from?
As bpbasilphx said, Tenebrae is combined Matins and Lauds for Holy Thursday through Holy Saturday. Tenebrae is a part of the Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours “tailored” to Holy Week, so it includes readings (the Lamentations of Jeremiah) and responses not heard at other times of the year and the use of a menorah-shaped candelabra, called a “hearse”, one candle of which is extinguished after every Psalm/Canticle.What happens during a Tenebrae service? I’ve read about it but it’s still hard to understand.What day is it held on Spy Wednesday or Good Friday?
**If you read my first post on this thread, you’ll see where I already answered your questions.Do Catholics still practice this regularly? None of the Catholic churches around me do, which is why I said what I did! The local Lutheran church does this every year. If it is a familiar custom in the Catholic Church, why is it that few of the Catholics I speak with have any idea what I am talking about? I could go to any Lutheran here, and they would know exactly what I am talking about, and far more Lutherans in my area attend Good Friday Tenebrae Service than Catholics attend their Good Friday Services. I kid you not!
What is hard to understand about it?
Calm down!**If you read my first post on this thread, you’ll see where I already answered your questions.
In the Byzantine tradition, there is something comparable–the Bridegroom Matin on the first four days of Holy Week, which gets anticipated overnight, e.g., Monday Matins on Sunday Evening.
Of course, the most popular services of the last three days are also expanded versions Matins and Vespers. **
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx
What is hard to understand about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx
If you read my first post on this thread, you’ll see where I already answered your questions.
In the Byzantine tradition, there is something comparable–the Bridegroom Matin on the first four days of Holy Week, which gets anticipated overnight, e.g., Monday Matins on Sunday Evening.
Of course, the most popular services of the last three days are also expanded versions Matins and Vespers.
Calm down!
Linda: I think you have misread his tone. He did answer the question in the first post - he was simply stating a fact. It is often a problem on forums that posters skip over large parts of a thread and thus miss vital information.Peace
Thank you. Point well taken - partially, anyway. I did miss some of the information in his first post - my mistake. As a relatively new Catholic, though, some of that information was over my head. I know I still have a lot to learn. I also felt the OP was sincere when he/she said some of the information was hard to understand. Since Tenebrae services no longer seem to be a common practice in Catholic churches, I could understand why the OP asked about them. From my experience, which I stated, the tradition seems to have been maintained in the Lutheran Church - here, at least. I also never said it originated in the Lutheran Church.Linda: I think you have misread his tone. He did answer the question in the first post - he was simply stating a fact. It is often a problem on forums that posters skip over large parts of a thread and thus miss vital information.
I think the answer as to why it is usually held now on Spy Wednesday rather than Good Friday is tied to the introduction of the Triduum in the 50’s. As I understand it, the Triduum is considered one service with 3 parts over 3 days. Essentially the evening Veneration of the Cross and the traditional 3PM Stations of the Cross on Good Friday makes it, as a practical matter, pretty dense to try to include the Tenebrae on Good Friday.Thank you. Point well taken - partially, anyway. I did miss some of the information in his first post - my mistake. As a relatively new Catholic, though, some of that information was over my head. I know I still have a lot to learn. I also felt the OP was sincere when he/she said some of the information was hard to understand. Since Tenebrae services no longer seem to be a common practice in Catholic churches, I could understand why the OP asked about them. From my experience, which I stated, the tradition seems to have been maintained in the Lutheran Church - here, at least. I also never said it originated in the Lutheran Church.
It still doesn’t make sense to me why a Tenebrae service that includes the Strepitus would be held on any day other than Good Friday, but, I will do more research. I wish we had a local Catholic church that still had such a service. I will ask my priest. Father is used to all my questions!
I do appreciate all I have learned here on CAF.
Thank you. I couldn’t find a very good explanation in my research, and Father makes Communion calls today, so I haven’t had the chance to speak with him. His parents live in Poland, and I would be curious to know if the Tenebrae Service might be more common there. On Candlemas Day(as with various Church celebrations), he shared with us how that is celebrated in his family’s church in Poland. I had never heard of Spy Wednesday before reading this post. As I said, I know I have a lot to learn!I think the answer as to why it is usually held now on Spy Wednesday rather than Good Friday is tied to the introduction of the Triduum in the 50’s. As I understand it, the Triduum is considered one service with 3 parts over 3 days. Essentially the evening Veneration of the Cross and the traditional 3PM Stations of the Cross on Good Friday makes it, as a practical matter, pretty dense to try to include the Tenebrae on Good Friday.
Spy Wednesday, to my knowledge, has never had a traditional service. So, moving the Tenebrae to then does not disrupt the timing of another service, brings Spy Wednesday more closely into the Paschal celebration, and as a precursor to the Triduum calls us to humble preparation as a summation of Christ’s life, death and resurrection: recalling prophesy and his life through the readings, recalling His death through the darkness and strepitus, and recalling His resurrection through the return of His light…
So, Tenebrae on Spy Wednesday has a certain practicality and can be viewed as a summation right before the end of Lent of the entire Paschal Mystery. It strikes me as what is really meant by organic development of the liturgy - it is a practical change that fits.
Tenebrae is strictly readings and chant - from the posts here it seems as if it grew out of the Liturgy of the Hours.Thank you. I couldn’t find a very good explanation in my research, and Father makes Communion calls today, so I haven’t had the chance to speak with him. His parents live in Poland, and I would be curious to know if the Tenebrae Service might be more common there. On Candlemas Day(as with various Church celebrations), he shared with us how that is celebrated in his family’s church in Poland. I had never heard of Spy Wednesday before reading this post. As I said, I know I have a lot to learn!
Can some of the reasoning for moving the Tenbrae also be used to explain why Palm Sunday is not strictly celebrated as such, but is focused rather on the Passion, using the same readings as Good Friday? In the three years I have been Catholic, I have yet to understand this. To my mind, there should be a contrast in the tone of Palm Sunday and that of Good Friday. Or should I ask this as a new thread? It just seems there may be a connection.
Would a Tenebrae Service, then, not include communion, but, the Liturgy of the Word only?
From what I’ve read here and from other sources, that’s what I have come to understand. That also makes me wonder if a Tenebrae would be more likely to be observed in a monastery than in a parish church, both now and in the past.Tenebrae is strictly readings and chant - from the posts here it seems as if it grew out of the Liturgy of the Hours.
I don’t know the answer to your other questions, though I believe the answers are connected to the change in Calendar following VII. ** It’s funny how traditionally Lent was 40 Fast Days: Ash Wed to the following Saturday: 4 days then the following 6 weeks of 6 days each (Sundays being feast days “in” Lent but not “of” Lent) for a total of 40 days. ** Now the Triduum is considered its own time - or so I’ve been told: meaning Lent is 37 days plus everywhere I go I’m now told the Sundays are part of Lent rather than “in” Lent; so maybe we have 43 days of Lent?
** It’s funny how traditionally Lent was 40 Fast Days: Ash Wed to the following Saturday: 4 days then the following 6 weeks of 6 days each (Sundays being feast days “in” Lent but not “of” Lent) for a total of 40 days. ** That was my understanding of the forty days of Lent.It doesn’t make that much difference to me, though from time-to-time I stop to think it’s interesting.
So, in the Byzantine Rite, you are required to fast even on Sundays during Lent, or they are counted as days of Lent? What about the Triduum?\ It’s funny how traditionally Lent was 40 Fast Days: Ash Wed to the following Saturday: 4 days then the following 6 weeks of 6 days each (Sundays being feast days “in” Lent but not “of” Lent) for a total of 40 days. That was my understanding of the forty days of Lent.\
Not in Byzantine usage. Either preposition is used indifferently.
Tenebrae did grow out of the Liturgy of the Hours. Previously the Liturgy of the Hours was longer, as you can see here. The LOTH for the Triduum was marked by special features such as omission of introductions, hymns, and so forth. You can see it here. If you are interested in how it used to be, the Internet Archive has a very good book.Thank you. I couldn’t find a very good explanation in my research, and Father makes Communion calls today, so I haven’t had the chance to speak with him. His parents live in Poland, and I would be curious to know if the Tenebrae Service might be more common there. On Candlemas Day(as with various Church celebrations), he shared with us how that is celebrated in his family’s church in Poland. I had never heard of Spy Wednesday before reading this post. As I said, I know I have a lot to learn!
Can some of the reasoning for moving the Tenbrae also be used to explain why Palm Sunday is not strictly celebrated as such, but is focused rather on the Passion, using the same readings as Good Friday? In the three years I have been Catholic, I have yet to understand this. To my mind, there should be a contrast in the tone of Palm Sunday and that of Good Friday. Or should I ask this as a new thread? It just seems there may be a connection.
Would a Tenebrae Service, then, not include communion, but, the Liturgy of the Word only?