Terminology of Protestants

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Oh boy, here we go again. Trouble is brewing as always. Please friends, I only wanted to know about terminology. Let’s not crucifiy one another over every little nuance and word spoken. It’s not fair. Otherwise why be on the Catholic Protestant forum unless to learn from one another. While we can’t be fully yoked together (another favorite word of mine lol) we certainly can share Jesus who belongs to all of us.

Please keep the peace!

Amen
 
happilycatholic said:
First of all, if you consider a likeness of Christ a graven image, you are sick. The same for the Eucharist, which is Christ’s body.

Next, we do not bow or genuflect “to the altar”. We are bowing and genuflecting to the Tabernacle or the place where Christ (the Eucharist) is present. If Christ is present on the altar, then yes we bow in that direction. However it’s not the altar itself we are bowing to.

You can read this in any instruction given to an altar server or in the Catechism itself. If folks would read the Catechism instead of simply parroting what they’ve heard all their lives, they would probably agree with most of it if not all.

In order to be committing idolatry a person would have to consciously consider the object of worhsip a god as in INSTEAD OF GOD THE FATHER. In otherwords, if I look at a fork and believe that it gives me salvation and I pray to the fork and consider it my god, then yes I’ve commited idolatry.

This is just one more way Protestants set themselves apart from Catholics. I guess Protestants are worshipping their beds every night if they bow there and say their prayers as if God were sitting on their bed…oh wait HE IS.

That one is just a no-brainer. I’m sorry but this one is just a pet peeve of mine. :o
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Consider this part to us God is everywhere and we have church when any two of us meet to discuss the ways of God. Thus making the sign of the cross will be our lifes’s work, since God is everywhere.
 
T700 said:
Attacking someone by telling them, “…you are sick” is not clarification, it is attack.

Paul
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Okay, I am sorry for further derailing this but here goes…

I didn’t attack anyone. No one here has stated that an image of Christ is graven. I was referring to anyone who “might” say that. So I’m not sure “who” I am “attacking”.

Furthermore, I guess you take offense to my “attack” rather than the derailing of the thread. How passive-agressive of you. Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to attack you.

Peace Be With You for goodness sake.
 
Hislittlelady said:
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Very well put Sabbath Keeper. I agree!
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I’m sorry to have created a ripple in this discussion. It wasn’t my intention, but I have an observation to offer…

My priest actually uses a couple of these terms quite frequently, like “Blood of the Lamb” and “Annointing”. I think it could have something to do with the priest as in where he was raised and how (in what faith) he was raised.

Someone mentioned locality. Some of these terms I’ve heard in Southern churches, but not Northern ones. I’d actually never thought about it until you raised the point. I will have to be more observant at Mass!

Also, maybe worth mentioning, we just sang an old hymn at Mass on Sunday and a few traditionally Christmas carols for the Feast of the Epiphany.

Is our Parish different? This could be interesting.
 
Hislittlelady said:
Can anyone give me an answer to a question I’ve had for a very long time and didn’t think it important enough to ask. But I’d really like an answer to this because it’s still nagging at me.

Why is it that Protestants use words like ‘anointed’, ‘restored/and restoration’, ‘Praise the Lord’, and when someone dies they say ‘going to glory’, ‘wait on the Lord’, ‘covered by his wings’, ‘abide in me’, just to name a few? I realize these are all scriptural terms, but how come Catholics don’t use these terms also since they are very pretty.

I personally like them, but try not to use them or I’ll sound Protestant. Is there anyone that can enlighten me as to why these terms are used mainly only by Protestants. At least, I have never heard Catholics use them. Nor have I heard Protestants use Catholic terminology.
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It is called Christianese.

Christianese when used with respect to language, is the language that your particular group uses that is perfectly plain to everyone within your group but has outsiders scratching their heads in bewilderment.

Everyone uses Christianese. Even you all.
Hislittlelady said:
Also why are Protestants so opposed to making the sign of the cross or blessing themselves with holy water? What is it that bothers you about it? This mystifies me. Nor do they bow before the alter of the Lord in a Catholic church if they ever have opportunity to go there. I’ve had a few Protestant friends that have gone to mass with me and they will not bow before the holy crucifix nor bless themselves from the holy water font?

I will wait for some good (name removed by moderator)ut.

:snowing: :winter: :curtsey:
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Again more Christianese (I am not sure this is the right word though) this time related to practices that folks in your particular group are comfortable with and understand but outsiders just don’t get and may be uncomfortable with.

Again, everyone has their own set of Christianese in relationship to practices.

Working through the Christianese is essential if different Christian groups want to understand each other.
 
Hislittlelady said:
Can anyone give me an answer to a question I’ve had for a very long time and didn’t think it important enough to ask. But I’d really like an answer to this because it’s still nagging at me.

Why is it that Protestants use words like ‘anointed’, ‘restored/and restoration’, ‘Praise the Lord’, and when someone dies they say ‘going to glory’, ‘wait on the Lord’, ‘covered by his wings’, ‘abide in me’, just to name a few? I realize these are all scriptural terms, but how come Catholics don’t use these terms also since they are very pretty.

**There are a wide variety of Protestants…some use phrases particular to each specific group or subgroup…I’m sure not all Catholics use the same “words” and “phrases”…look to your Eastern brethren to bear this out…some groups use words and phrases that have specific meaning to them…as a Friend we use terms like “that of God”…“gathered Meeting”…“Meeting”…“First Day”…“The Presence”…“Light Within”…other groups would not use the same words…Some Mennonites use terms like “Inner Word”…which is very close to “Inner Light” among Friends.

Sometimes certain groups use those words and phrases which spurred their formation…the Holiness Groups use words like “Santification” or “Entire Sanctification” or “definite second work of grace”…the Pentacostal groups use “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” or “anointed”…which for Holiness groups would mean the same as “Entire Sanctification” except Pentacostal groups believe the “baptism” is accompanied by the “evidence of speaking in tongues.”

Many of the phrases are doctrinal in specifics and set apart the specific group. The Salvation Army uses “military phrases” as they are “God’s Army”.**

I personally like them, but try not to use them or I’ll sound Protestant. Is there anyone that can enlighten me as to why these terms are used mainly only by Protestants. At least, I have never heard Catholics use them. Nor have I heard Protestants use Catholic terminology.

Probably because Catholicism had set words and phrases set into use for hundreds of years prior to the Reformation/Radical Reformation which didn’t carry the “meaning” many of the reformers understanding of the gospel…so the leaders of each group took words from scripture which best described their experience with God.

Also why are Protestants so opposed to making the sign of the cross or blessing themselves with holy water? What is it that bothers you about it? This mystifies me.

Most Protestant groups do not have holy water fonts…and many Protestant buildings are laid out quite differently than most Catholic buildings…the theology is reflected not in the buliding among Protestants…but more “within the people” and the words they use. Using “holy water” implies that the water itself is somehow…“magic” to use an inadequate term. For many Protestants “sacramentals” as understood are simply not used…it is the Holy Spirit that makes people “holy”…not the building or an item…the idea of a “priesthood” being required to “bless the water” is not part of most Protestant theology…so blessing oneself with holy water really does not carry the meaning for most Protestants as it does for Catholics.

Nor do they bow before the alter of the Lord in a Catholic church if they ever have opportunity to go there. I’ve had a few Protestant friends that have gone to mass with me and they will not bow before the holy crucifix nor bless themselves from the holy water font?

**For many Protestants God’s Presence is not found in a buliding…nor near the alter…nor in the tabernacle…God is Present always. If any ‘posture’ is used to declare God’s Presence it typically is in the ‘reverence’ they display as the enter their corporate worship space by acknowledging that ever existing Presence in a more formal way…Protestants have an aversion to “images”…most Protestants do not view the image of the cross in the same way…the cross is empty in most Protestand buildings…if they even have a cross…Friends non-programmed Meetings have no religious images at all in the Meeting Room. Our benches usually are laid out in a “U” formation with those Friends given the “care of the Meeting” along with the Clerk sitting at the “bottom of the U” facing the Meeting along each side of the Meeting room.

I’m sure some Protestants view such things as “holy crucifix” and “holy water” with some disdain as they feel to focus on an “image” or “substance” as somehow “holy” or “santified” takes away from their understanding of God’s ever existing Presence in their midst…“Presence in the Midst” is a Quaker term illistrated in a famous Quaker painting…if I were a bit more “computer savey”, I’d post it for you…**

I will wait for some good (name removed by moderator)ut.

:snowing: :winter: :curtsey:
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Hislittlelady said:
Can anyone give me an answer to a question I’ve had for a very long time and didn’t think it important enough to ask. But I’d really like an answer to this because it’s still nagging at me.

Why is it that Protestants use words like ‘anointed’, ‘restored/and restoration’, ‘Praise the Lord’, and when someone dies they say ‘going to glory’, ‘wait on the Lord’, ‘covered by his wings’, ‘abide in me’, just to name a few? I realize these are all scriptural terms, but how come Catholics don’t use these terms also since they are very pretty.

I personally like them, but try not to use them or I’ll sound Protestant. Is there anyone that can enlighten me as to why these terms are used mainly only by Protestants. At least, I have never heard Catholics use them. Nor have I heard Protestants use Catholic terminology.

Also why are Protestants so opposed to making the sign of the cross or blessing themselves with holy water? What is it that bothers you about it? This mystifies me. Nor do they bow before the alter of the Lord in a Catholic church if they ever have opportunity to go there. I’ve had a few Protestant friends that have gone to mass with me and they will not bow before the holy crucifix nor bless themselves from the holy water font?

I will wait for some good (name removed by moderator)ut.

:snowing: :winter: :curtsey:
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They don’t bow to the altar or tabernacle because they don’t believe there is really the body blood soul and divinity of Christ in there.
 
HisLittleLady…
As a cradle Catholic I have observed the same things and the definitions we have for certain words is distinctly different. Some of the ones I have encountered are:

Graven images and idolatry… to some Protestants it means any image or symbol that is used by Catholics yet to others it is more specific to statues and crucifixes. The problem is in the definition to be sure… since Catholics understand that to be the graven images that the pagans worshiped in their temples Because they BELIEVED that the statues **became **Gods. Catholics argue that Statues and Crucifixes that we use are aides and reminders of Christ and the saints to help us focus our prayers and we do NOT think that the hunk of plaster is GOD. This is really where the History of the Church and traditions come into play… God himself commanded Moses to make a staff with a serpent on top… and God commanded the building of the Ark of the Covenant… complete with angels on it right? Statues and icons… stained glass… crucixes… all used to help teach the believers the story of Salvation History… of course this was pre-gutenberg press days and pre-world literacy days… not to mention that as they (the earlier believers) moved on and evangelized they ran into language barriers… and as they say… a picture is worth a thousand words…
Indeed we have a very rich history. As do the older Protestant denominations… but what of all these new ones we never heard from until the last century? They have nothing but the Bible… so they have seized upon it and made it their only focus.

Being Saved… To many Protestants especially of the newer variety this is a one time event… to Catholics and the older Protestants, we understand it to be a life long endeavor. So many denominations use this one time event as the beginning point… as they were “saved” from their sins. As Catholics we don’t get it… how come they get this eye-popping, life changing, soul moving once in a lifetime event and we get Sunday mass…years and years of Sunday mass… Let’s be charitable and assume that these “saved” folks had never heard of God before… sad but true… never set foot inside a Church, never read the bible… so what happens when they reach a crisis point in their lives and somebody asks if they want to be saved from it all?.. wouldn’t you say yes? So yes it is…that moment is the life changing moment they called being saved. It can be in a Church at an altar call… or it can be saying a sinner’s prayer… or any way and anywhere. As Catholics, we hope that our parents are responsible and teach us about Jesus from the cradle… we go to mass, we go through the sacraments, we choose our path at confirmation… and the journey continues throughout our whole lives… no lightning in the sky, no eureka moment… we fall more in love with Christ as we learn more and more… we submit our will more and more as we learn why we need to… This is why we believe: “I have been saved,”
“I am being saved,”
“I hope to be saved.”
read here for an explanation: scborromeo.org/truth/q1.htm

Covered by the blood:
I admit, the terms I have struggled most with are the “covered by the blood” sayings… I don’t want my inequities “covered” I want them cleansed… I want my robes to be white from being washed in the blood of the Lamb… But some Protestants used that covered not washed analogy… I am still working on that one…

I will try to write more later
 
Okay, I’m putting my ignorance right out there… 😊

What is the deal with the hand motions the Primitive Baptists were doing in “Cold Mountain” as they sang, “I don’t care to stay here long”.

Is that an add-on or do they really do that and why? 🤷

I’ve been curious about this since I saw the movie.
 
Among_Strangers said:
Yo, Pub.

For your enjoyment, if for no one elses:

http://www.plainquaker.org/friends.jpg

Click for a slightly different and larger view:
michiganquakers.org/Presence2.JPG
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Thank you…I have a copy of this painting hanging in my dining room.

To one posters point…we don’t bow to the “alter” or “tabernacle” not only because we don’t believe the Real Presence is there but because we believe the Real Presence in already among us…so an alter or tabernacle isn’t necessary.

Many Protestants, from my experience do not deny the Real Presence among us…they simply do not believe the Real Presence exists in bread or wine…but truly Present among us…understood it’s not a Catholic understanding.
 
Making the sign of cross, blessing yourself with holy water and other rituals are often not accepted by other Christian denominations because there is no Scriptural/Biblical support for doing them.

The belief is that while rituals and tradtions are nice, they do not bring us any closer to God or have impact on our salvation so they are a waste of time. Additionally, when the observation of rituals and traditions superceed and become the central focus of worship instead of praying and worshipping God, it become idolatry (a sin) We essentially become like the Pharisees who Jesus condemmed for making a 'show" of all their rituals to make people think they were “holy”.
That’s a simple explanation.

As far as the use of expressions, I agree with some of the other posters that it is largely cultural and personal preference. It means nothing as far as the beliefs of the individual. It’s just a manner of speaking, that’s all.
 
Every religious group has its own set of buzzwords.

Pop-evangelicals have some.

Charismatics/Penetcostals have some.

Even Orthodox Christians and Traditionalist Roman Catholics have buzzwords.
 
Hislittlelady said:
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I understand your point of view but Catholics absolutely do not worship icons and idols at all. For myself and I’m sure most Catholics, we kneel before a statue of Jesus or Mary, and in no way adore the statue which is made of plaster or other materials of earth, but it’s merely a representation to bring the image of God into our mind which helps us to pray. I know for myself, when I kneel before a statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, my soul is absolutely lifted up to heaven and I feel his presence. The statue is simply a reminder and nothing more. The sign of the cross is a blessing of respect for the Lord. Bowing before the front altar of the Lord in the church is out of deep love and respect for God and we humble ourselves by bending one knee. It’s not the statue at all but God himself who is represented to remind us.
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I’ve heard this explanation before, and yes, I’ve read it in the Catecism. However, I often wonder if Catholics have actually studied for themselves how the tradition for praying before statues actually developed. I highly recommend some research in this department.

An earlier poster stated that most later day Protestants rely only on the Bible. Perhaps this is a good place to at least start. A little research in how God dealt with Isreal in the Old Testament concerning Idolatry and what he commanded them to do with the idols of their enemies was very helpful to me to understand God’s position on this vital topic. A little reminder also, idolatry, as Paul and John point out, is not just connected with graven images, many of us have idols in our lives and we don’t even realize it, I’m still discovering that I have a few and am endevouring (sic) to eliminate them from my life with God’s help.
 
Sabbath_Keeper said:
I’ve heard this explanation before, and yes, I’ve read it in the Catecism. However, I often wonder if Catholics have actually studied for themselves how the tradition for praying before statues actually developed. I highly recommend some research in this department.

Hello Sabbath Keeper,
I would say in order to make the above comparison you would have to include all prayer. Even Satanists pray. It doesn’t matter that some folks prayed to idols. It doesn’t make praying with a rosary or praying before an icon of a saint or Christ wrong. This is way over simplifying the matter.
I also wouldn’t assume that catholics are unstudied. We are all catechized and while some are not catechized properly, most are. We are absolutely learned about what we are getting into and on the other hand, all of these things come up in RCIA, believe me. They are a concern of most everyone being confirmed.

An earlier poster stated that most later day Protestants rely only on the Bible. Perhaps this is a good place to at least start. A little research in how God dealt with Isreal in the Old Testament concerning Idolatry and what he commanded them to do with the idols of their enemies was very helpful to me to understand God’s position on this vital topic. A little reminder also, idolatry, as Paul and John point out, is not just connected with graven images, many of us have idols in our lives and we don’t even realize it, I’m still discovering that I have a few and am endevouring (sic) to eliminate them from my life with God’s help.
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I think we can all agree that the idolatry that was going on with the Isrealites is NOT the same thing whatsoever. Comparing praying TO a golden calf or any other “idol” of that time and praying to an icon of a saint or Christ is a stretch.
HC
 
happilycatholic said:
I think we can all agree that the idolatry that was going on with the Isrealites is NOT the same thing whatsoever. Comparing praying TO a golden calf or any other “idol” of that time and praying to an icon of a saint or Christ is a stretch.
HC
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I found an interesting website - Orthodox - that briefly discusses the issue of icons and how it was dealt with by the undivided church in the 7th Ecumenical Council.

stnicholas-billings.org/History/GreatMoments/7thecumenical.htm

Jon
 
Hislittlelady said:
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Quite true but strangely comforting. I would consider this a phrase intended to comfort someone since of course it’s silly to think of God having wings.
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Well, but,🙂 you see, Our Lord didn’t think it was silly:
In Luke 13:34 He says:
Nevertheless I must walk to day and to morrow, and the day following, because it cannot be that a prophet perish, out of Jerusalem.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent to thee, how often would I have gathered thy children as the bird doth her brood under her wings, and thou wouldest not?
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See also:Matthew 23:37
Exodus 19:4
Deuteronomy 33:3
Ruth 2:12
Psalms 17:8
Psalms 36:7

and, perhaps:) best of all: Psalms 91:1 Happy is he whose resting-place is in the secret of the Lord, and under the shade of the wings of the Most High; &through to ] Psalms 91:4 He will cover you with his feathers.** Under his wings you will take refuge**. His faithfulness is your shield and rampart.
 
Zooey said:
Well, but,🙂 you see, Our Lord didn’t think it was silly:
In Luke 13:34 He says:

See also:Matthew 23:37
Exodus 19:4
Deuteronomy 33:3
Ruth 2:12
Psalms 17:8
Psalms 36:7

and, perhaps:) best of all: Psalms 91:1 Happy is he whose resting-place is in the secret of the Lord, and under the shade of the wings of the Most High; &through to ] Psalms 91:4 He will cover you with his feathers.** Under his wings you will take refuge**. His faithfulness is your shield and rampart.
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Thank you my friend. You are of course correct and shame on me for forgetting these passages. I knew they were familiar. Well if it’s good enough for the Lord to make this statement that’s even more comforting to me then before.

I will always hide under his wings. I do know my bible pretty well although not expert like many Protestant denominations that rely fully on scripture alone, but God’s word is not to be toyed with. This every Catholic should also know and I’m sure they do if they are paying attention. Aside from Scripture we have the Catechism of the Catholic Church and that is our guide for the most part, but Scripture is also tied in with that. Sacred tradition means the world to us and is of the utmost importance and this is part of the church’s catechism.

Thank you so much for that reminder of scripture. I apologize to God the Father in heaven who told us this and I put aside and forgot.
Happily Catholic …I think we can all agree that the idolatry that was going on with the Isrealites is NOT the same thing whatsoever. Comparing praying TO a golden calf or any other “idol” of that time and praying to an icon of a saint or Christ is a stretch.
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HC
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This is so totally true. I’d recommend any of our Protestant friends to go to the local Catholic church and get down on your knees and stare into the eyes of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and tell me it doesn’t make you feel him close to you. You are of course looking at a plaster statue, we don’t argue this point, and certainly anyone with even a miniscule amount of intelligence would not be worshiping a plaster statue unless they were mentally unbalanced or something like that, but really I’d like to see what you would feel if you did this. For me, I can feel the Lord drawing me to himself when I pray before a Crucifix or a statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

My prayer to all is that you find your way back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church and find all the graces therein.
God be with you no matter which way you go for He loves all of us in whatever way our hearts hear Him. Praise be to God.
 
🙂 When I was a little girl, we went to my great-uncle’s house for Sunday dinner every other week.
We would go out to the henhouse before we left, and gather me a half-dozen or so of nice brown eggs from his Rhode Island Reds. They were such swweet chickens–not like those flighty big white hens…but every so often, he would say, “No, don’t touch that one! She has her chicks under her wings! A mother hen will fight or die for her babies”.:yup:
Isn;'t that just the most beautiful picture of God’s love??:gopray2: :gopray2: :gopray2:
 
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