Terrible First RCIA Meeting

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I can’t speak for other parishes, but I can speak from the experience of those I’ve belonged to through the years. When I moved to Chicago, it took me 4 years to find the right parish. I wasn’t looking for a particular interpretation of thises or thats. I just wanted a place where the priest was accessible and personally involved in running the parish. Nothing is worse to me than having everything delegated through a bunch of disorganized people.

The finest parishes IMHO are on the North Shore of Chicago. St Catherine Laboure & Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Glenview and St. Joseph in Wilmette are wonderful parishes where you’ll not only SEE the priests, but they’ll become your good friends. Two other fine parishes in the city are St. Mike’s in Old Town and St. Vincent de Paul in Lincoln Park. I used to drive past at least 10 other parishes (3 in my own neighborhood) to get to one of their masses.

There are hundreds of parishes in the Archdiocese of Chicago, yet in the 16 years I lived there I only found 5 that made me feel comfortable about their teaching and their community. I’m sure there are good things about every parish, but the moral of the story is sometimes you have to take the hints you’re given and cut bait when the wierd things happen. The wonderful thing about this Church is that we are so big that most of us have a good alternative somewhere close…or at least close enough. Find the priest and find the program that work for you. As you’ve already said, you FEEL Catholic and you’re living the Catholic faith already. The rest will follow and doesn’t have to be forced to compromise to get to the end result.
 
I’m so sorry for your bad expeirence…please don’t give up, I’m catholic but decided to attened b/c I had poor instruction as a child and I’m reconfirming my catholic faith.😃
Our parish priest teaches the class and he is wonderful instructor and speaker.
 
Have been an RCIA instructor for over 15 years. These horror stories are enough to make me cry. By comparison our program strikes me as pretty orthodox. Where do these folks get their weird ideas/beliefs?. My advantage has been to have had 16 years of Catholic education before VII and to have been a reader of items like OSV, First Things, and Crisis Magazine. Tried National Catholic Reporter for a while and decided they had too many axes to grind.
 
Detroit Sue:
There is one: it’s called “Catechism of the Catholic Church.” Responsibilities in the US have been over-delegated to the laity, many of whom weren’t properly catechized themselves. This is why there is a simmering war in our archdiocese. The new priests want unity & orthodoxy - the older priests are fighting them on it.
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You’re exactly right, and if a parish RCIA program isn’t handing out a copy of the CCC to each candidate on day 1 and using it as a primary resource in their instruction, they’re doing that candidate a disservice.
 
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Chris-WA:
I think the over-arching problem here is the lack of a single, world-wide syllabus for RCIA. Every parish has it’s own program that totally depends on the individual(s) who happen to be teaching. In most cases they probably have little or no supervision or training. Just as was done with the Catechism, I think we need the Magisterium to publish a single, world-wide RCIA instructional manual in every language that’s steeped in Catholic history, doctrine, and teaching. end quote]

True when RCIA began but thankfully no longer true. There are 2 or 3 threads out there where people have offered all kinds of valid suggestions for course material and syllabus.

We have the world-wide textbooks, they are the Bible, specifically the lectionary, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The syllabus and course outline should follow the organization of the CCC. Making Disciples by Our Sunday Visitor, with its companion Catechisms for teens, family, adults are great for RCIA and Confirmation. By the way, the CCC came with instructions–the bishops in each country are directed to produce versions suitable for their own cultures, with respect to language and ethnicity but also age groups etc. The authors of the CCC recognize that it is a reference, but not workable as the primary text for all situations.
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mercygate:
Whoa! You might encounter some difficulty there on account of the problematic issue of being baptized twice. Check this right away with whichever pastor you decide to go with.
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I know that this is not on the topic of RCIA, but your comment on being baptized more than once being problematic is one that I have not heard yet.

As a young child (ten years old), I was baptized a Lutheran, but during my parent’s divorce in my teens, I attended a non-denominational Charismatic church (the Reverend was ex United Pentecostal) with a friend and was baptized again while attending this church.

Without going through the subsequent 20 years of wandering and a recent rededication I will summarize that I have been blesssed to discover the True Roman Catholic church through this forum, Karl Keating, Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Tim Staples, Jimmy Akin, Dave Armstrong, and many others, including some very dear friends. As a result, I am now registered in an RCIA program at a local parish. The RCIA registration form asked if I was previously baptized and I documented the Lutheran baptism, but did not mention the other, not because I was trying to hide it, but because I did not realize that it was a problem. I reasoned that the second was unnecessary, but not problematic.

Could you explain?
 
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LostandFound:
The RCIA registration form asked if I was previously baptized and I documented the Lutheran baptism, but did not mention the other, not because I was trying to hide it, but because I did not realize that it was a problem. I reasoned that the second was unnecessary, but not problematic.
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The second WAS unnecessary. This often happens where one is “sprinkled” at the “first” baptism, and then moves on to another faith tradition who baptizes by immersion. You did the right thing, because you can’t be validly baptized twice.

John
 
It is my understanding that a second baptism is problematic only when a baptized Catholic accepts baptism in another denomination. If a person attends a mainstream Protestant Church, and accepts their equivalent of confirmation, he would not be baptized again. However, accepting baptism in something like a Pentecostal or a Fundamentalist tradition means that you are repudiating the baptism you have already received. This IS something to deal with and it must be properly cleared up before being admitted once again to the Sacraments. Again, this is when a Catholic accepts a second baptism.
 
Dear Chris,
You said:
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Chris-WA:
You’re exactly right, and if a parish RCIA program isn’t handing out a copy of the CCC to each candidate on day 1 and using it as a primary resource in their instruction, they’re doing that candidate a disservice.
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In our RCIA Program last year. Not only was the CCC never read to us, but when I told our Director of the RCIA (in a liberal parish) that I had bought one in English and one in Spanish, she told me that the Catholic Catecism was only for people like Priests and people like her who teach. And that it would be too hard for us to interpret. I didn’t believe her, because she had said alot of other things that were opposite of what I had learned on a conservative catholic Site.
Ana Reus
 
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puzzleannie:
I

The reality is we belong to a very messy Church, and just like when you get married you have to find a way to get along with the in-laws, you better make up your mind you are becoming part of a huge often dysfunctional family.

It is the right of every Catholic, and of every catechumen and candidate for sacraments, to receive sound teaching and preaching. No priest, no catechist, no DRE has the right to deny this, it is a grave breach of canon law. If you really want to be Catholic, better learn now to participate in one of our favorite activities, bitchin’ to the bishop. Don’t stop until you find a place to learn what you need, and please, forgive us our trespasses.
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nucatholic, This is true. My first response to your plight was a strong temptation to scream and pound something. :banghead: I am still tempted to do that, but puzzleannie’s advice is correct. Things seem to be ridiculously looney at the moment, but it’s true that the Church has gone through one turmoil or another for 2000 years. What you see right now is the fruit of well over 200 years of determined effort to rid the world of the Church.

Fortunately, the easy availability of radio, TV and the Internet make it possible for you to be in contact with plenty of people who both know and are faithful to the teaching of the Church. I realize it doesn’t make up for the real painfulness of what you are going through, but it will help.

Of course, you must try to find a better situation. I really recommend the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter that another poster has suggested. I can’t imagine a better group for you, and hope it works out.

Another question for the rest of us (you have enough on your plate right now): What to do about that heretic? I am using that word advisedly, posters, and with the full knowledge that the “kumbaya-non-judgmentals” may dump on me immediately. (Note to them: Aha!, I’ve already removed that thing from my own eye, so relax!) 😉

God bless you, nucatholic. Rest assured that many of us are out here joyous and secure in thanksgiving that the prophets lived! 🙂

Anna
 
Nucatholic, I too am so sorry for the poor program. I suppose its too far for you to commute to Tulsa each week? Our priest is giving the catechesis in RCIA, complete with Bibles and Catechisms for all. Despite what you may think at this point, not all RCIA programs are bad!

I have heard of a great parish in Edmond, which is probably not too far from you. Will do some research and post here when I find it.

Brenda M.
 
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puzzleannie:
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Chris-WA:
I think the over-arching problem here is the lack of a single, world-wide syllabus for RCIA. Every parish has it’s own program that totally depends on the individual(s) who happen to be teaching. In most cases they probably have little or no supervision or training. Just as was done with the Catechism, I think we need the Magisterium to publish a single, world-wide RCIA instructional manual in every language that’s steeped in Catholic history, doctrine, and teaching. end quote]

By the way, the CCC came with instructions–the bishops in each country are directed to produce versions suitable for their own cultures, with respect to language and ethnicity but also age groups etc. .
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Puzzleannie, I have started a new thread about this in the apologetics forum, because that catechism is supposed to be out sometime this year, and there is every reason to believe that it will be fought tooth and nail by DRE’s and others in charge of RCIA. The whole depressing story of the anti-catechism group in the US Church is told in the book I mention in the new thread. I first heard of it on Father Echert’s expert website, where he warmly recommended it.

It has been very important to dissenting groups to infiltrate the teaching offices of the Church, and it is equally important to them to see that no doctrinal resource is put in the hands of students of any age. Thus, they fought the first Catechism and will surely try to impede the use of the one designed for the USA.

We need to stay on top of this! Oh, yes. I just called the thread
“The US Catechism: When is it Coming Out?” (or something like that).

God bless, 🙂

Anna
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Chris-WA:
I think the over-arching problem here is the lack of a single, world-wide syllabus for RCIA. Every parish has it’s own program that totally depends on the individual(s) who happen to be teaching.
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Excellent points. The ICEL document “Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults” says this:77. It is the responsibility of the bishop to fix the duration and to direct the program of the catechumenate.
  1. A suitable catechesis is provided by priests or deacons, or by catechists and others for the faithful, planned to be gradual and complete in its coverage ….
  2. The instruction that the catechumens during this period should be of a kind that while presenting Catholic teaching in its entirety also enlightens faith, directs the heart toward God, fosters participation in the liturgy, inspires apostolic activity, and nurtures a life completely in accord with the spirit of Christ. The “Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults” calls for both the touchy-feely stuff that can be grouped under the catch all of “faith sharing”, and for catechetical instruction that presents a systematic presentation of the faith in its entirety. Unfortunately, the “touchy-feely” part of RCIA is all some RCIA programs are geared up to present (and that is all some RCIA instructors want to present).
The real challenge of developing a decent RCIA program is coming up with a way to systematically present a complete coverage of the faith. Where are the catechists supposed to draw the line in presenting a complete coverage of the faith? A good RCIA program has to find a way to avoid being superficial in its presentation of the faith, and going overboard and burying the catechumens with too much information. There is definitely a need for guidance from the bishops on this matter.

In our RCIA classes, everyone gets a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. But the CCC was written for bishops, and there is no way to cover an eight hundred page Catechism in a typical RCIA program that meets for 60 to 90 minutes, once a week, for a year. I read on another thread that the US Bishops are developing a catechism geared specifically for those in RCIA. I hope that is correct.
 
FYI:

In our program I have taken the Catechism & divided it into modules of 3-5 lessons each. I then “plug” the modules into times of the year & Sunday readings that coincide with them so that all the modules are covered throughout the year. Then, there are additional dates on which we do other lessons, some from The Teaching of Christ by Bishop Wuerl & associates. All of these lessons have the CCC or the above named book as a spring-board. The teachers adapt them to the particular group… we don’t give steak to those still cutting their teeth.
We have a variety of teachers who come in to teach different modules or special lessons on something (or someone) they are particularly devoted to… like Mary, the Divine Mercy, etc. When we have people with us for more than a year, learning with us they will hear a similar lesson sometimes a second time, but by a different teacher with a different style & perspective.

Lessons for children are also based on these sources, but simplified & including lots of projects, etc.

We use our Sunday Breaking Open the Word time to reflect on the Word of God & our teaching night to go deeply into how that Word is reflected in the teachings of the Church & the life of a Catholic.

We try to pray together, laugh together & we try to get all Church organizations involved in welcoming & inviting our catechumens & candidates to be involved in stewardship & worship.
 
This is sad about your first RCIA class. Since I was baptized as an infant but not catechetized I went to RCIA as an adult when I returned to the Church. The parish I attended then was Dominican, and their RCIA program was simply outstanding and very inspired! The priest had a Doctorate Degree and was a gifted teacher, and we all were so blessed to learn about our faith from him. I learned so much. And we did use the Catechism and were taken through the Mass part by part numerous times. We had lively discussions and grew very close to one another. Sponsors came to every meeting. Our classes were held weekly from September until Easter. I am so glad I attended this RCIA rather than just to Alpha, which is for unchurched Catholics returning. I pray you find a really strong parish with a lively and committed *Catholic *RCIA! God bless!
 
I feel so saddened by all of these responses by the fact that hardly any one seems to have enjoyed the RCIA process! I would have thought that the first meeting would be during the Inquiry’ period (unless of course everyone is speaking about the Cathecumenate period )and this always means gently, gently!. To my understanding the RCIA is not a theoligical journey but an inner spiritual journey tthrough sharing and discovery during Inquiry and, during the Catechumen, catechesis which is based on the day’s Gospel Reading and how it works into and with our daily living. The RCIA, again to my understanding, is about a deepening of an understanding of faith and a growth in our spiritual life, not only with those wishing to receive full Communion with the Catholic Church but with all those accompanying them on their journey. There are plenty of opportunites along the way for Theoligical (name removed by moderator)ut but again within the understading and openess to all things. This is where discernment comes in! To me and in my experience as an RCIA Team member the RCIA Journey is an uplifting and truly faithful experience that should be approached with an open mind, a listening heart, and a quiet space for God to enrich! Good luck to all and I hope you can move beyond all of this.
 
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