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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Where does it say in the Quran and hadiths that only a “caliphate” can order a jihad? Where? Actori incumbit probatio.
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pro_universal
Guest
pro_universal;1521051:
They both condemn terrorism. I’m quite serious.Would Hamas and Hezbollah (forgive me for any mispellings) be enough for you? Or are they not Muslim organizations?
But, they do not condemn total war…they think that the existence of open war with Israel, where their civilians are targeted, gives them the right to target Israeli civilians. So while it’s bad, it’s more akin to the Allied menality in World War II than it is to Osama.
E
Ella
Guest
That is not what Osama said was his reason for being mad at the US. Osama said it was because non-muslims were allowed on Saudi (holy) soil.
Really? Let’s see Osama’s speech where he says this.
Pro, I’m really surprised you didn’t know this about Osama Bin Laden. I learned it from listening on XM satellite radio to a broadcast that was streaming from CNN, IIRC, and which was a biographical piece about Mr. Bin Laden. Osama Bin Laden’s whole problem with the US started because he felt that it was sacrilege for non-Muslim soldiers to be allowed in Saudi Arabia, whereas the Saudis rejected Mr. Bin Laden’s offer to use his own army against the Iraqis.It’s well-documented that Osama was upset with the Saudi Arabian govt. because they allowed the US to set foot on Saudi soil in the 90-91 Gulf War. Bin Laden had approached the govt and offered his mujahadeen to repulse Iraq in the event of an invasion and was politely declined.
It’s even discussed in the 9-11 report: gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf
Now, I’m not surprised that that was new news to me, but I figured you knew it because of your interest in the subject of Muslims in general, and specifically the perceptions people have about them in the West, or at least on this particular Catholic based message board.
P
pro_universal
Guest
You’ll notice that the report doesn’t contain the text of a speech, and neither did the CNN reports.surprised you didn’t know this about Osama Bin Laden. I learned it from listening on XM satellite radio to a broadcast that was streaming from CNN, IIRC, and which was a biographical piece about Mr. Bin Laden. Osama Bin Laden’s whole problem with the US started because he felt that it was sacrilege for non-Muslim soldiers to be allowed in Saudi Arabia, whereas the Saudis rejected Mr. Bin Laden’s offer to use his own army against the Iraqis.
Now, I’m not surprised that that was new news to me, but I figured you knew it because of your interest in the subject of Muslims in general, and specifically the perceptions people have about them in the West, or at least on this particular Catholic based message board.
I did know this, it’s just not a complete truth. It wasn’t the stationing that made him mad, it was the fact that the US sent troops to defend an unpopular, corrupt regime that uses torture to stay in power.
Do you see that element? The US troops in Saudi Arabia are there to defend an illegitimate regime. That’s why putting US troops in Saudi made lots of people mad, just like sending US troops to Vietnam to defend the RVN made lots of people mad.
Please reread my original post. I think you’re missing the depth of the point you heard on CNN and read in the report. I was essentially agreeing that the moment of incitement was the placing of US troops in Saudi Arabia, but the reason for it was that Saudi Arabia is an illegitimate regime that is propped up by US support.
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Ella
Guest
So do you think Iraq should have been allowed to invade Kuwait?You’ll notice that the report doesn’t contain the text of a speech, and neither did the CNN reports.
I did know this, it’s just not a complete truth. It wasn’t the stationing that made him mad, it was the fact that the US sent troops to defend an unpopular, corrupt regime that uses torture to stay in power.
Do you see that element? The US troops in Saudi Arabia are there to defend an illegitimate regime. That’s why putting US troops in Saudi made lots of people mad, just like sending US troops to Vietnam to defend the RVN made lots of people mad.
Please reread my original post. I think you’re missing the depth of the point you heard on CNN and read in the report. I was essentially agreeing that the moment of incitement was the placing of US troops in Saudi Arabia, but the reason for it was that Saudi Arabia is an illegitimate regime that is propped up by US support.
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pro_universal
Guest
What on earth does that have to do with the permanent garrisons in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait both?So do you think Iraq should have been allowed to invade Kuwait?
I don’t understand the question. My answer is that it should have been allowed to do whatever since it wasn’t an American problem, and since our involvement did not restore human rights to the region. But seriously…
How does saying “Osama was mad because” translate to “You must think Kuwait should have been invaded by Saddam”?
M
mark_a
Guest
I believe you are sincere. God knows as a Catholic I don’t want to start with the finger-pointing.We pray for the defeat of extremism and terrorism. We pray for the safety and security of our country, the United States, and its people. We pray for the safety and security of all inhabitants of our planet. We pray that interfaith harmony and cooperation prevail both in the United States and all around the globe.
But to me, Islam has the same problem as much of Protestantism has: Islam has no ultimate teaching authority.
How do I, the common man, separate violent extremist Islam from moderate peace-loving Islam? Who in Islam is there to reign in extremist Ayatolas?
Your post is otherwise very comforting.
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Ella
Guest
It is relevant because of this. When Iraq invaded, should the US have said ‘no’ to helping SA and Kuwait repel Iraq?What on earth does that have to do with the permanent garrisons in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait both?
I don’t understand the question. My answer is that it should have been allowed to do whatever since it wasn’t an American problem, and since our involvement did not restore human rights to the region. But seriously…
How does saying “Osama was mad because” translate to “You must think Kuwait should have been invaded by Saddam”?
R
Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Saudi Arabia was formally formed in 1927 (as the Kingdoms of Hijaz and Nejd - these twin kingdoms were not united until 1932) even though the Saud family ruled parts of what is now Saudi Arabia since 1750. Between then and 1990 there were a total of ZERO US troops propping up the ILLEGITIMATE (says who?) Saudi government.
SA only agreed to US troops in August 1990 because Saddam invaded Kuwait and lobbed missiles into Saudi Arabia. The US troop level was only about 5,000, although up to 500,000 foreign troops (not all US) massed in Saudi Arabia for elimination of the Iraqi troops out of Kuwait.
After Gulf War I, the US troop level fell back to 5,000, and only reached 10,000 for the Gulf War II. At the conclusion of Gulf War II, the US troop level again fell to 5,000.
These troops were mostly air crews of the 363rd Air Expeditionary Wing (with some ground troops protecting the air bases) to inforce the ‘no-fly zones’ in Iraq, and have little population control capabilities. How these planes have the capability of propping up the Saudi rulers from their own people is unknown.
So, let us see - those 5,000 US troops sent in to safeguard Saudi Arabia from foreign invasion and to enforce the UN no-fly zones over Iraq propped up the Saudi government. In effect, cowering the 26.4 million Saudis into accepting their rulers which they had no problems accepting between 1927 to 1991. These US troops all left by August 2003, and yet these non-existent US troops have been propping up the Saudi government for more than three years since.
I know the US military is the strongest in the world, but it is hard to believe that having zero troops on the ground can prop up a foreign government for more than 3 years.
Hasta luego,
Rodrigo
SA only agreed to US troops in August 1990 because Saddam invaded Kuwait and lobbed missiles into Saudi Arabia. The US troop level was only about 5,000, although up to 500,000 foreign troops (not all US) massed in Saudi Arabia for elimination of the Iraqi troops out of Kuwait.
After Gulf War I, the US troop level fell back to 5,000, and only reached 10,000 for the Gulf War II. At the conclusion of Gulf War II, the US troop level again fell to 5,000.
These troops were mostly air crews of the 363rd Air Expeditionary Wing (with some ground troops protecting the air bases) to inforce the ‘no-fly zones’ in Iraq, and have little population control capabilities. How these planes have the capability of propping up the Saudi rulers from their own people is unknown.
So, let us see - those 5,000 US troops sent in to safeguard Saudi Arabia from foreign invasion and to enforce the UN no-fly zones over Iraq propped up the Saudi government. In effect, cowering the 26.4 million Saudis into accepting their rulers which they had no problems accepting between 1927 to 1991. These US troops all left by August 2003, and yet these non-existent US troops have been propping up the Saudi government for more than three years since.
I know the US military is the strongest in the world, but it is hard to believe that having zero troops on the ground can prop up a foreign government for more than 3 years.
Hasta luego,
Rodrigo
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
tamccrackine;1522786:
This strikes me as a distinction without difference. “They both condemn terroism…But they do not condemn total war.” I think it is quite possible for Hamas and Hezbollah to condemn terrorism, just as it was quite possible for Hitler to declare his peaceful intentions at Munich, and just as it was possible for the Communists to declar that the Soviet Union was a “workers’ paradise”. Totalitarians are always capable of lying in order to fool the credulous, and it is much wiser to judge them by their actions than by their words.They both condemn terrorism. I’m quite serious.
But, they do not condemn total war…they think that the existence of open war with Israel, where their civilians are targeted, gives them the right to target Israeli civilians. .
If Israel really wanted to declare total war on Palestinians, there would be none left. And how many Hezbollah civilians did the Israelis kill before Hezbollah invaded Israel, killed its soldiers and kidnapped some of them? None. Everyone, including Christian Lebanese refugees in Israel or in any other place where they are allowed to tell the truth, knows that Hezbollah deliberately created casualties among civilians in Lebanon. No doubt they did that in order to claim this “right” to “Holy” total war you’re talking about. No one in any country where you are allowed to think really believes Israel deliberately targeted civilians. I’m sorry, but sometimes a lie is just so egregious that you have to quit making excuses for it and call it a lie.
I am no expert on the Koran. I can’t say that it does not somewhere say it’s not right to wantonly kill civilians. Perhaps it does. The trouble is that Islamic triumphalists do wantonly kill civilians, (including other Muslims) whether it is commanded or not, and use the Koran to justify it. Evidently they have also added “well, it’s okay to declare total war and deliberately kill civilians” to the justifications of their savagery.
Oh, and yes, their leaders and clerics can make up another lie about what the Pope said, threaten to kill him too, burn down Christian churches and murder nuns. There’s your Islamic “total war”…kill everyone who isn’t a Muslim.
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pro_universal
Guest
I already answered. I believe it should have.It is relevant because of this. When Iraq invaded, should the US have said ‘no’ to helping SA and Kuwait repel Iraq?
But even then, it certainly did not have to permanently garrison troops to protect them.
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pro_universal
Guest
pro_universal;1523054:
Who is declaring peaceful intentions here? I think you misunderstand the concept. Total war means, in conditions of open warfare, all assets of the opposing society are fair game.This strikes me as a distinction without difference. “They both condemn terroism…But they do not condemn total war.” I think it is quite possible for Hamas and Hezbollah to condemn terrorism, just as it was quite possible for Hitler to declare his peaceful intentions at Munich, and just as it was possible for the Communists to declar that the Soviet Union was a “workers’ paradise”. Totalitarians are always capable of lying in order to fool the credulous, and it is much wiser to judge them by their actions than by their words.
Israel clearly and admittedly practiced this form of warfare against Lebanon. Hizbullah did it in return. They are both in agreement on this practice of bombing “support infrastructure.”
Israel killed about 10,000 hizbullah civilians before Hizbullah invaded Israel, and it kidnapped by some estimates 900 (no one knows, because Israel practices secret detention.)If Israel really wanted to declare total war on Palestinians, there would be none left. And how many Hezbollah civilians did the Israelis kill before Hezbollah invaded Israel, killed its soldiers and kidnapped some of them?
Huh??? It would be tough to explain Hassan Nasrallah’s rally then…that was the single largest political rally ever in Lebanon. In the whole history of Lebanon. He’s the most popular leader with every sectarian group, across the board.None. Everyone, including Christian Lebanese refugees in Israel or in any other place where they are allowed to tell the truth, knows that Hezbollah deliberately created casualties among civilians in Lebanon.
Excuse me? Israel itself said they were going to target civilian structures. They said specifically “no where is safe”, and then they bombed the ports and airports (which had nothing to do with Hizbullah). They levelled whole neighborhoods in Beirut, and then launched cluster munitions (by their own admissions, read the Israeli papers sometime) all over South Lebanon.No doubt they did that in order to claim this “right” to “Holy” total war you’re talking about. No one in any country where you are allowed to think really believes Israel deliberately targeted civilians.
I’m sorry, but sometimes a lie is just so egregious that you have to quit making excuses for it and call it a lie.Certainly, do not have the whole picture on the Israel-Arab conflict either.I am no expert on the Koran. I can’t say that it does not somewhere say it’s not right to wantonly kill civilians…
E
Ella
Guest
How do you know that it didn’t have to permanently garrison troops to protect them?I already answered. I believe it should have.
But even then, it certainly did not have to permanently garrison troops to protect them.
However it wasn’t the permanent garrison of troops that initially offended Mr. Bin Laden. It was SA letting non-Muslims on holy ground (SA itself).
C
cestusdei
Guest
Hamas and Hezbullah condemn terrorism? That’s like the nazi’s condemning anti-Semiticism. These are terrorist groups and should be dealt with as such. If anyone says they are against terrorism, but supports those groups then you know they are being deceptive.
Israel dropped leaflets and even called people to tell them they were going to strike the area and to leave. Islamic terrorists rountinely attack pizza parlours and school buses. Yet pro has no problem with that. Israel is a legitimate state. The terrorists are not.
Israel dropped leaflets and even called people to tell them they were going to strike the area and to leave. Islamic terrorists rountinely attack pizza parlours and school buses. Yet pro has no problem with that. Israel is a legitimate state. The terrorists are not.
D
demerzel85
Guest
Wait a minute. A blanket statement like ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ requires that there be nothing but statements of peace inside Islamic Scripture and that the followers in following strictly to the Scripture are peaceful.
As has been observed, there are Muslims fully intent on using violence to achieve their ends. And these are devout practising Muslims.
Islamic Scripture also includes the utilisation of violence.
So more accurately, it is that some Muslims are violent while others are more peaceful.
As has been observed, there are Muslims fully intent on using violence to achieve their ends. And these are devout practising Muslims.
Islamic Scripture also includes the utilisation of violence.
So more accurately, it is that some Muslims are violent while others are more peaceful.
L
Lance
Guest
How then do you explain this?
27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.
24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.
7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.
9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.
20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.
7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.
19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari’t. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.
10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.
20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers.
7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba’ farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack.
5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.
22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba’ farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.
6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.
29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.
12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.
7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.
28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba’aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.
14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.
1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.
16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.
26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.
7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004
aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html
27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.
24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.
7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.
9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.
20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.
7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.
19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari’t. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.
10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.
20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers.
7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba’ farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack.
5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.
22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba’ farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.
6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.
29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.
12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.
7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.
28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba’aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.
14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.
1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.
16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.
26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.
7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004
aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
Ridgerunner;1523400:
Hassan Nasrallah’s rally, indeed! I am sure Hitler had the largest political rally ever in Germany; before or since. So, I am sure, did Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao and others. Any gangster with enough guns and thugs to overwhelm all opposition and force people to do what he wants, can do this anytime he wants. On the other hand, those Christian Lebanese who are outside Lebanon and free to talk without fear of being beheaded or having their children murdered, do not speak well of Hezbollah at all. You may recall that he called a huge rally to support Syria’s criminal and murderous domination of Lebanon also, and that an overwhelmingly larger group of Lebanese counter-demonstrated. But, of course, Hezbollah’s strength has grown since then, compliments of the criminal regimes in Syria and Iran who provide them with money, weapons and manpower. I guess you really expect us to believe the Lebanese love this agent of Syria who plants rockets in their neighborhoods and homes and kills them if they don’t comply.Huh??? It would be tough to explain Hassan Nasrallah’s rally then…that was the single largest political rally ever in Lebanon. In the whole history of Lebanon. He’s the most popular leader with every sectarian group, across the board.
Excuse me? Israel itself said they were going to target civilian structures.
Certainly, do not have the whole picture on the Israel-Arab conflict either.
You know, to say that Israel and Hezbollah agreed that they would practice total war by killing civilians is about as false a statement as I have ever heard. Israel did everything it could do to avoid civilian casualties; frustrated of course by Hezbollah’s forcing civilians to stay around their, what was it? 15,000 Iranian rockets? Hezbollah’s rockets, on the other hand were aimed directly at civilians.
Apologists for Islamic terrorism have, I suspect, convinced some in the west. But I think, Pro-Universal, that your comrades overstepped themselves in threatening and harrassing the Pope for something he didn’t even do. That’s where the wolf’s snout poked out of the woods and could be clearly seen. If you are a peace-loving fellow, why don’t you go back to your Islamic blog sites and convince your fellows that they should stop supporting terrorism? But perhaps that’s not part of the plan.
I
inJESUS
Guest
yes false worshippers cuz killing another Muslim is forbidden in Islam…dunno what their Imam are doing for them…Well, are you saying that all those Muslims who’re risking their lives in the American army as we type this are the same as these folks? Or are you calling them false-worshippers?
P
pro_universal
Guest
Actually, this rally by Hassan Nasrallah dwarfed the size of the “March 14th” rallies. And it included Christians and secularists. Look at the photos and see how many of the different non-Hizbullah flags there are in those crowds.You may recall that he called a huge rally to support Syria’s criminal and murderous domination of Lebanon also, and that an overwhelmingly larger group of Lebanese counter-demonstrated.
If you’re alleging that Hizbullah is strong enough to force 800,000 people to attend a rally, let’s see some evidence of any forcing.
Okay, so are you saying Hizbullah is stronger now, after the war with Israel, than ever before???But, of course, Hezbollah’s strength has grown since then, compliments of the criminal regimes in Syria and Iran who provide them with money, weapons and manpower.
It’s a fact. Hassan Nasrallah is the most popular figure in Lebanon, and in the entire middle east now. Look at any poll you want, look at any article from a middle east paper (even the ones that don’t like Hizbullah.)I guess you really expect us to believe the Lebanese love this agent of Syria who plants rockets in their neighborhoods and homes and kills them if they don’t comply.
I expect you to believe it because it’s a fact.
So were Israel’s. Bombing grain silos and hospitals and airports are attacks on civilians. So are bombing all the roads. What Hizbullah did was no different, and Hizbullah actually killed about two soldiers for every civilian…so in terms of a ratio, Hizbullah killed far fewer civilians than Israel. (Israel killed about 10 civilians for every Hizbullah member it killed…do you honestly think that’s a sign of targeting soldiers only?)You know, to say that Israel and Hezbollah agreed that they would practice total war by killing civilians is about as false a statement as I have ever heard. Israel did everything it could do to avoid civilian casualties; frustrated of course by Hezbollah’s forcing civilians to stay around their, what was it? 15,000 Iranian rockets? Hezbollah’s rockets, on the other hand were aimed directly at civilians.
I’m not Muslim. But anyway, here I am acknowledging that Muslims do not support terrorism.If you are a peace-loving fellow, why don’t you go back to your Islamic blog sites and convince your fellows that they should stop supporting terrorism? But perhaps that’s not part of the plan.
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