Tertullian and Origen

[SecretBeliever]

Hi all,

I had no idea where to post this but since it’s about Church Fathers, I put it here

I’d heard many years back that the two men in the title ended up being considered heretics or at least somehow had wandered away from orthodoxy later on in their lives. Is this true? If so, what did they believe that made them unorthodox, and how did they come to those ideas?

 

[Joe_5859]

Hi all,

I had no idea where to post this but since it’s about Church Fathers, I put it here

I’d heard many years back that the two men in the title ended up being considered heretics or at least somehow had wandered away from orthodoxy later on in their lives. Is this true? If so, what did they believe that made them unorthodox, and how did they come to those ideas?

You might read up on Origen and Tertullian in the Old Catholic Encyclopedia.

I don’t think that Origen’s problem was heresy per se. I once heard the anecdote that Origen took literally the statement “If your hand leads you to sin, cut it off”. But it wasn’t his hand that was the problem… I’m not sure how true that is, though.

Tertullian got sucked into Montanism.

It just goes to show you how important it is to stay faithful till the end. Even these two intellectual giants who gave so much to the Church did not persevere. This does not mean we cannot learn a great deal from their writings, nor does it mean they are necessarily in hell, but their lives as a whole cannot be held up as a model in the same way as most of the other Church Fathers.

 

[AlabamaCatholic]

It is my understanding that Origen’s teaching on the final salvation of those in hell and his tendency to subordinate the Son to the Father were rejected.

 

[Hesychios]

It is my understanding that Origen’s teaching on the final salvation of those in hell and his tendency to subordinate the Son to the Father were rejected.

Origin was a brilliant man, very sincere and a pioneer in exegesis. He was very influential on the church fathers, and most of his writings are today considered quite orthodox. One can still read his works today, modern Catholic publishers continue to put them into circulation.

However, some of his speculations were condemned long after they were originally proposed, actually long after he was already dead. I don’t remember anything about subordination (although you may be correct), but apokatastasis was something he thought might be true. It refers to a general restoration of all fallen things to God, because it is God’s desire that all be saved it is possible that even Satan could be redeemed and reformed.

One principle part of this concept is the theory of pre-existence of the soul. Modern Christians are firmly of the theory that the soul is a created thing that doesn’t exist until conception. That fundamental principle had not been a settled fact in his time. Now we affirm that only Jesus Christ, of all men or women, pre-existed.

The Montanism which attracted Tertullian was interesting in that it was not far from orthodox Christianity in most ways (in fact was very conservative) but the Montanists believed that the Paraclete or Holy Spirit was communicating with the church and adding to revelation. That was condemned and the church to this day affirms that the age of revelation is closed. This is why no apparition or supernatural message, regardless of how attractive it seems to us, can be imposed on the population as new teaching.

 

[RyanBlack]

You might read up on Origen and Tertullian in the Old Catholic Encyclopedia.

I don’t think that Origen’s problem was heresy per se. I once heard the anecdote that Origen took literally the statement “If your hand leads you to sin, cut it off”. But it wasn’t his hand that was the problem… I’m not sure how true that is, though.

Tertullian got sucked into Montanism.

It just goes to show you how important it is to stay faithful till the end. Even these two intellectual giants who gave so much to the Church did not persevere. This does not mean we cannot learn a great deal from their writings, nor does it mean they are necessarily in hell, but their lives as a whole cannot be held up as a model in the same way as most of the other Church Fathers.

I think it needs to be pointed out that Origen was tortured for the faith during the Decian persecution and never left the Church. Tertullian, on the other hand, died a schismatic.