Testimony from a gay man

[St_Francis]

*There’s a story I heard once. You have a guy stuck in a hole in the ground, and a doctor walks by. He asks the Doctor to help him, and the doctor writes out a prescription, throws it down to him and walks away.

Then a priest walks by. He asks the priest to help him out. The priest writes down a few verses, throws it down to him, and walks away.

Then a friend comes by. He tells his friend that he’s in a hole and asks to help him out. The friend jumps down in the hole with him. “Why did you do that?” He asks. “Now we’re both down here!”

“Yes we are,” the friend says. “But I’ve been in this hole before and I know the way out.”

This is a cute story. Made up by people who are the friends of enemies of the Church, and bearing no relation to reality.

Consider St Maximilian Kolbe, confined in a concentration camp, who offered to take the place of a man who was one of ten arbitrarily chosen to be starved to death in retaliation for an attempted escape.*

Consider St Damian of Molokai, who gave uo his life to minister to the leper colony in Hawaii and who died from leprosy.

Consider St Isaac Jogues, who volunteered to be a missionary to the violently unfriendly Mohawks, who tortured, mutilated, enslaved, and finally killed him.

 

[TimeEntrance]

I remember trying to hide it. I remember feeling so ashamed of it. I remember days filled with self-loathing, the afternoons I spent crying, as well as the night I tried to kill myself. I was a Sophomore in high school. I took 21 pills and drank a decent amount of liquor to go along with it. I woke up the following day, surprised I was still alive, the sun shining on my face. I remember the birds singing outside my window, in the most beautiful song I’d ever heard. I learned later on that day that, due to a strange but life saving twist of fate, I’d taken my sister’s birth control pills and not the pain killers I thought I had. You know those days where they tell you, “this is the first day of the rest of your life”? That was mine. I’ll never forget that day.

I learned to respect myself, love myself, be proud of who I was. I stand up for myself, now. I went on to college and then out to pursue my career, and I’ve never had more positivity, more happiness. I’m 26 years old now, I’m due to be married this June to my partner of 3 years. It’s not a perfect life - no one’s life ever is - but it’s one filled with joy and hope for the future and optimism.

That was a pretty powerful post. Inspirational too.

But you’ll have to forgive me. I had to chuckle over that birth control pill part. But I bet you’re glad you took those instead of the sleeping pills!

I’m happy you didn’t commit suicide too. I fear there is an eternal damnation there. But deep, deep despair is a bad place to be in. I understand suicide, or the attempt, with that.

If someone offered me a magical cure - one that could allow me to go back in time and do everything over as a straight man instead, I wouldn’t take it. I’m a much stronger and wiser person now than I was then, in spite of and partly because of the struggles I’ve faced. I wouldn’t trade any bit of my life for anything; and that’s why I responded to Antag. Because I used to “be” Antag.

There’s a story I heard once. You have a guy stuck in a hole in the ground, and a doctor walks by. He asks the Doctor to help him, and the doctor writes out a prescription, throws it down to him and walks away.

Then a priest walks by. He asks the priest to help him out. The priest writes down a few verses, throws it down to him, and walks away.

Then a friend comes by. He tells his friend that he’s in a hole and asks to help him out. The friend jumps down in the hole with him. “Why did you do that?” He asks. “Now we’re both down here!”

"Yes we are," the friend says. "But I’ve been in this hole before and I know the way out."

That was a powerful little story. That end part kind of choked me up.

I have my own views. And I’m sure many homosexuals may not or would not like them. And my views may be right or they may be wrong. But at the end of the day I’m just one more nobody on this earth and I’ll trust God to be God and make His own judgement. So, I’ll just ride out on my own horse. Happy trails to everyone else. Don’t let the snakes and cactus get ya.

 

[Casey123]

That was a pretty powerful post. Inspirational too.

But you’ll have to forgive me. I had to chuckle over that birth control pill part. But I bet you’re glad you took those instead of the sleeping pills!

I’m happy you didn’t commit suicide too. I fear there is an eternal damnation there. But deep, deep despair is a bad place to be in. I understand suicide, or the attempt, with that.

That was a powerful little story. That end part kind of choked me up.

I have my own views. And I’m sure many homosexuals may not or would not like them. And my views may be right or they may be wrong. But at the end of the day I’m just one more nobody on this earth and I’ll trust God to be God and make His own judgement. So, I’ll just ride out on my own horse. Happy trails to everyone else. Don’t let the snakes and cactus get ya.

God bless you, TimeEntrance. :hug1:

 

[classica87]

Casey, as someone who has also struggled with depression, I understand that place of darkness. While I do not agree with all of your views, you are in my prayers. I am so glad you are still with us. (But then again, I’m glad I am too!) God bless you!

 

[IBombAtomically]

You have to quote with integrity to be credible, IBombAtomically. No one apart from trolls who might even be gay radicals in disguise stirring the pot, have suggested such things. That isn’t tolerated by the Church either.

I was referencing a claim made in the original post. Here’s the part I was talking about:

“And then there’s all the statistics I see people post about how gay men are more dangerous around children. Well that’s not true for me - I’ve worked with children and I can tell people that not once have I ever desired harm for a child - it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it. But I’m told that I’m a risk and that I’ll indoctrinate people into being gay…”

Hope that clears things up!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I learned later on that day that, due to a strange but life saving twist of fate, I’d taken my sister’s birth control pills and not the pain killers I thought I had.

Funny, birth control pills come in a package that is marked for each day and each pill is separated from the others. You’d have a hard time mistaking them for sleeping pills.

 

[maryjk]

Funny, birth control pills come in a package that is marked for each day and each pill is separated from the others. You’d have a hard time mistaking them for sleeping pills.

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[sennincatholic]

What is a ‘gay lifestyle’?

Is it wearing pink? Acting effeminate? Walking in Pride marches? I don’t do any of those things.

You’re telling me I can’t marry someone I love. Well, obviously I know that… but why?

The bible says that men who exchanged natural desires for unnatural ones were to be condemned. St Paul said it. It’s in Leviticus. I’ve heard all that before. But the active word in that is ‘exchanged’. It means those men chose to do something different. It was a deliberate act. St Paul, who came from a strict Jewish custom, would have seen that deliberate act as sinful as it would have been a threat to the future of the Jewish race, as well as being a reflection of the hedonism of the Romans and Greeks lavish and lascivious lifestyles.

But i didn’t exchange anything for anything. I just have what I got. There was never a time when I wanted to be sexual with a woman. It’s only ever been men that interest that part of me. And while I’m about it, it’s not all men… it’s only some of them, just like my straight guy friends are only attracted to some women - just saying that in case someone comes back with the accusation that all men are somehow at risk from the lustful attentions of gay men, as if we couldn’t control ourselves!

So if the men in the bible were condemned for exchanging natural for unnatural lusts, what am I to think when the only lusts I’ve ever had are those that I experience for same sex? To me they’re entirely natural. I have to manage them as any straight man has to manage himself when he’s around women. I act honorably. I don’t whistle at guys in the street or make suggestive comments - I don’t do it if I know they’re gay! I am just as much a gentleman as any straight man should be.

It always comes back to what I am being condemned and or denied me. Can people see how uncomfortable that makes me feel around those in the Church who, if they knew, since I don’t wear it on my sleeve, would immediately judge me for something that’s as natural to me as their heterosexuality, even though they don’t wear their straightness on their sleeve either. I don’t judge them unnatuaral. I don’t deny them their desires and the chance at living in loving companionship with someone who means everything to them in their lives and hearts.

Why am I being condemned to a life of loneliness because of something I had no choice oover?

Hi Antag…
I appreciate your courage for coming out and voicing your worries.Many “straight men” wont come out plain like this for some problem they have.
As many have posted above…we are all called to love one another irrespective of who we are.It is outrageous if people look at homosexuals as less human than others.
However…you feel you are maginalised or something by catholics…the problem should not be about what YOU Want.Your concern should be about what GOD wants.And wether you like it or not GOD HATES homosexual acts but LOVES the homosexual person.I’m sure you agree with me here.So if you realy love GOD you will obey His commandments even if it means going against what You think is your default nature.You have to live a chaste celibate life.There is no other way to go around this friend!Thats your cross and you have to carry it with prayers and love if you want to please God.

 

[andrewstx]

Hi andrewstx, why are you shunned at Mass? Are you saying it’s because you are homosexual?

It is because I am unmarried and perceived as a homosexual. I am not homosexual though.

I am over 50 years old, people make assumptions.

 

[St_Francis]

It is because I am unmarried and perceived as a homosexual. I am not homosexual though.

I am over 50 years old, people make assumptions.

The Orthodox must be very different from Catholics, I must say. People come to Mass and sit wherever they want. The church is generally too full for someone to consistently be sitting alone in a pew. Additionally, we have lots of people who come by themselves to Mass: people who are married to non-Catholics, widowed or divorced, etc. And to be honest, most of the churches I have been to have some people who appear to be homosexual, but no one really cares, and we generally do not assume that they are or are not.

And I would not assume anything just because someone was older and unmarried; and even if they were homosexual and that somehow was known, I don’t think it would matter to the people I have seen and known in the churches I have been to.

This just seems very strnage to me. Maybe they see you praying before Divine Liturgy or something and think you want to be left alone?

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

It is because I am unmarried and perceived as a homosexual. I am not homosexual though.

I am over 50 years old, people make assumptions.

Oh dear, and now I have assumed the same thing! I’m very sorry. Please know that I only wanted to clarify why people weren’t sitting with you. I shouldn’t have jumped to conclusions though.

I was going to say that if you’re being shunned because you’re homosexual, that is unacceptable but of course it’s equally unacceptable that people are shunning you because they think you’re homosexual.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I was wondering the same thing.

Oh well, it made a great story anyway.

 

[Faithdancer]

You have a decision to make. Stop all homosexual activity and live a chaste life as a Christian- the path that leads to salvation- or continue homosexual activity and risk your immortal soul. Not a difficult decision, when you think about it in those basic terms. Of course you could easily find a church that will tell you that you can be homosexually active and saved too, but any church that teaches that is teaching a lie. Well, we will pray for you!

 

[Robyn_p]

They chose it in order to be what they wanted to be.

I didn’t choose it. I have it imposed upon me.

Hi Antag!

I too have had chastity forced on me. Maybe not in the same way. I’m in a wheelchair, and in my experience guys don’t find me very attractive. I have been and probably will be single my entire life. I would love to be able to get married and have a normal romantic relationship, but it’s not in the cards for me. It’s very painful sometimes not to be able to not only show a certain person my love physically, but to not even have him want me at all! I know what it’s like to feel rejected.

But my dear friend, there’s so much more to life than sex! And thats what I had to learn.(slowly but surely) The Church’s teaching on this area has actually given me a freedom and joyfulness that I don’t think I would ever have, even were I able to be sexually active. I know what I’m made for now, I know I have a purpose. Greater than anything on this earth. The God who created me gave me purpose. He then came down and died to show me this, and to make it possible for me to actually achieve it!! He even comes and gives himself to me in the Eucharist everyday!! How awesome and intimate a God that is. Thats how much He loves us!

When I think about that, that awesome intense risky love(and it is risky, He makes himself so vulnerable to us and ninety percent of the time, we ignore Him) even though there’s absolutely NOTHING I’ve done to deserve that, even though there’s absolutely NOTHING I could ever give to Him, yet He does all this for me?!? Why?!? When I think about that, I realize what He wants to give me is so much better than any imitation I could have here.

The sufferings I have to endure now, which like you, I didn’t choose, are nothing compared to that love. He told me unless I take up my cross daily, I can’t be his disciple, yet he also said His burden is light. I’ll tell you, it was not at first!!! It took me forever to get what he meant by that. And I still haven’t completely got it. But the lightness has started to come…finally. Because I know now my struggles aren’t pointless anymore, I know He’s there with me in my darkest moment. I know through my sufferings, He can change me to be the person I was meant to be, which would be otherwise impossible without Him. I know, even if I could walk, I would be a pathetic selfish excuse for a human being without His grace. (Which I still am most of the time, but somehow He still works with me.) I just had to finally let him take over…and it’s been awesome ever since. (Not awesome like a trip to Disneyland, but awesome like climbing a mountain, with all the pains and cliffs, hard yet exhilarating) And that’s what the Christian life is. Like Benedict XVI said, we weren’t made for comfort, we were made for greatness!

You and I my friend, and every person on the planet actually, are called to experience this greatness. We shouldn’t settle on what we think would make us happy, because 100% of the time, if we go outside His plan, we are wrong. Like a Ferrari wanting to be an airplane, not only is it wasting its potential, it will break because that’s not what it’s made for.

And this greatness, this love, this purpose, this strength, can only be found in Christ! He is my strength. He feeds me in the Eucharist, he heals me in confession, He guides me through the teachings of His Church, so I no longer have to guess what the truth is.

Oh Antag, please don’t give all that up for an imitation, no matter how happy you think it will make you. There’s no happiness outside of Him.

“These things I have spoken to you, that my Joy may be in you, and your Joy may be full.”(Jn 15:11)

"I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.(Jn10:10)

God doesn’t want our lives to be empty Antag, he wants them to be joyous and full! And they will be once we give it to all to him.
Not easy, not painless or effortless, but full of joy! There’s nothing that compares to that. I promise you, give yourself to Him, give it all, hold nothing back, and you will receive a WHOLE LOT more then you ever could have imagined!! I know, the few times I’ve actually done that have been the best of my life, and I will keep trying to do it until the day He calls me home. I’m not one unfamiliar with suffering, I’m not talking from hypotheticals. Trust me, but most importantly, trust Him. He won’t let you down.

 

[blaskoman]

I dont get it. Is the Episcopol homosexual trying to get some type of validation on a catholic forum. Sorry, no validation from me. Dont understand the point of that post.

 

[wumpiesmommy]

Hi,
I don’t normally participate in discussions on homosexuality because I get angry hearing fellow Catholics insult gays or say such ignorant things as you mentioned…
I’m a devout Catholic, completely in love with Christ, and I truly pray you read this, for his spirit to be heard.
I’m inclined to believe that gays are indeed born that way. Who would CHOOSE to endure the persecution you do if given a choice? And please note, I am NOT saying definitively that it’s a sin to be gay. Some Bibles, like the Free on the Inside Bible, never mention homosexuality. Besides, who am I to say the word homosexual wasn’t a mistranslation or that there isnt a different meaning of the word in God’s mind?
But let’s just say for argument’s sake it is a sin, just because most will tell you that. We’re ALL born sinners so who has any right to judge you?! People should tell you about Christ’s mercy and grace towards sinners and that God allows us to be born sinners as part of His divine plan of salvation! And that Paul in 1 Corinthians laments that he’s bound by his sinful acts but praises Jesus because He WILL set him free in His time!
IF it’s a sin also then we should all welcome you heartily to the faith because duh, we’re all sinners here, some in bondage, and sinners are the ones for whom Christ came!!!
So I commend you for being open with your faith despite what humans think and I think it’s great that you admit your “sins”. To let sin keep you from serving God is to serve the enemy… we need more sinners in the church, really, to minister to and love as we’re commanded!

Wm

 

[livingwordunity]

I’m inclined to believe that gays are indeed born that way. Who would CHOOSE to endure the persecution you do if given a choice?

Feeling a certain way or the fact that someone didn’t choose to feel that way isn’t proof of being born that way. The problem with using an emotional argument is that it often ignores the facts such as the fact that there’s no such thing as a “gay gene”.

Unlike being able to know what race a baby is, there’s no way to look at a room full of babies and say that any of them are “gay”. Also, people who are born “intersex” are extremely rare and are typically asexual. So they should not even be in the same category as homosexual.

Most likely something happened to someone to cause them to believe they are homosexual. For example, a baby gets molested, and no one in the family ever finds out. Later, the kid starts to think he’s “gay” but doesn’t make the connection to this repressed memory.

Or a married couple fights all the time and get divorced. Their daughter takes sides with her father in the fight. She grows to resent her mother so much that she can’t reconcile the fact that she is the same gender as the one she has grown to hate. So she convinces herself that she isn’t really that gender, adopts label of being “gay” and thinks that she needs to change her sex (which is actually impossible since one can’t change their DNA).

Or a girl gets molested by her father or is raped by some other male and then develops a strong resentment of men because of this bad experience.

Or a baby boy starts playing with some dolls, and the family either freaks out about it or they start telling the boy that he’s “gay”. He internalizes the label. This is labeling and the self-fulfilling prophecy.

There are many other possible things that can happen to a child to influence them this way. In these cases, it was more the influence of outside factors which the child didn’t choose to have. But not choosing these circumstances of childhood experience is not the same as being born that way.

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

Being “gay” is a political label and purely behavioral and not biological since their bodies are made for heterosexual procreation. For example, a lesbian can wear pants and think that she is a man, but her body apparently didn’t get the memo since it still has a womb for procreating with a man.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I dont get it. Is the Episcopol homosexual trying to get some type of validation on a catholic forum. Sorry, no validation from me. Dont understand the point of that post.

Yes, we get that “viewpoint” many times on this forum - the honest ones at least put “Episcopalian” or “Anglican” as their profile religion. The dishonest ones claim to be Catholic as they tear down our Church’s teachings with every post they make. They like to come here and pretend that they are better than the Catholic Church because they LOVE homosexuals and want women to be ordained.

The issues within the Anglican Church are only on the surface about homosexuality and women being ordained. The true issue is whether the Bible is the revealed Word of God, or not. The homosexual-celebration wing is denying the Truth of the Bible outright. The more conservative branches of the Anglican Church have mostly broken away because of this foundational split. The homosexuality is only the top part of the iceberg - if that part of God’s Word isn’t true - then nothing is.

 

[fix]

Hi Antag!

I too have had chastity forced on me. Maybe not in the same way. I’m in a wheelchair, and in my experience guys don’t find me very attractive. I have been and probably will be single my entire life. I would love to be able to get married and have a normal romantic relationship, but it’s not in the cards for me. It’s very painful sometimes not to be able to not only show a certain person my love physically, but to not even have him want me at all! I know what it’s like to feel rejected.

But my dear friend, there’s so much more to life than sex! And thats what I had to learn.(slowly but surely) The Church’s teaching on this area has actually given me a freedom and joyfulness that I don’t think I would ever have, even were I able to be sexually active. I know what I’m made for now, I know I have a purpose. Greater than anything on this earth. The God who created me gave me purpose. He then came down and died to show me this, and to make it possible for me to actually achieve it!! He even comes and gives himself to me in the Eucharist everyday!! How awesome and intimate a God that is. Thats how much He loves us!

When I think about that, that awesome intense risky love(and it is risky, He makes himself so vulnerable to us and ninety percent of the time, we ignore Him) even though there’s absolutely NOTHING I’ve done to deserve that, even though there’s absolutely NOTHING I could ever give to Him, yet He does all this for me?!? Why?!? When I think about that, I realize what He wants to give me is so much better than any imitation I could have here.

The sufferings I have to endure now, which like you, I didn’t choose, are nothing compared to that love. He told me unless I take up my cross daily, I can’t be his disciple, yet he also said His burden is light. I’ll tell you, it was not at first!!! It took me forever to get what he meant by that. And I still haven’t completely got it. But the lightness has started to come…finally. Because I know now my struggles aren’t pointless anymore, I know He’s there with me in my darkest moment. I know through my sufferings, He can change me to be the person I was meant to be, which would be otherwise impossible without Him. I know, even if I could walk, I would be a pathetic selfish excuse for a human being without His grace. (Which I still am most of the time, but somehow He still works with me.) I just had to finally let him take over…and it’s been awesome ever since. (Not awesome like a trip to Disneyland, but awesome like climbing a mountain, with all the pains and cliffs, hard yet exhilarating) And that’s what the Christian life is. Like Benedict XVI said, we weren’t made for comfort, we were made for greatness!

You and I my friend, and every person on the planet actually, are called to experience this greatness. We shouldn’t settle on what we think would make us happy, because 100% of the time, if we go outside His plan, we are wrong. Like a Ferrari wanting to be an airplane, not only is it wasting its potential, it will break because that’s not what it’s made for.

And this greatness, this love, this purpose, this strength, can only be found in Christ! He is my strength. He feeds me in the Eucharist, he heals me in confession, He guides me through the teachings of His Church, so I no longer have to guess what the truth is.

Oh Antag, please don’t give all that up for an imitation, no matter how happy you think it will make you. There’s no happiness outside of Him.

God doesn’t want our lives to be empty Antag, he wants them to be joyous and full! And they will be once we give it to all to him.
Not easy, not painless or effortless, but full of joy! There’s nothing that compares to that. I promise you, give yourself to Him, give it all, hold nothing back, and you will receive a WHOLE LOT more then you ever could have imagined!! I know, the few times I’ve actually done that have been the best of my life, and I will keep trying to do it until the day He calls me home. I’m not one unfamiliar with suffering, I’m not talking from hypotheticals. Trust me, but most importantly, trust Him. He won’t let you down.

Wonderful post. When I read the OP the first thing that came to mind were folks confined to wheelchairs.

 

[fix]

Your argument is really with the Church, not with individual posters, notwithstanding that your very first post was a rebuttal of all of the arguments against homosexual relations that you have seen people give, and notwithstanding your perception that people have said uncharitable things.

Because you feel you would be acting “naturally” and morally in engaging in homosexual relations, it is your position that the Church ought to agree with you. But it doesn’t. Even if every poster in here affirmed you in engaging in homosexual sex, even if you somehow persuaded every last one, your argument is still with the Church.

From the Church’s standpoint, you would be sinning in engaging in homosexual sex. You might confess, you might repent, you might resolve not to do it anymore and then fall again. Every sinner does that.

But the reality is that the Church isn’t going to say it’s morally correct to do it, and you are going to have to work that out with God and your confessor. What gets said in here does not affect that in the slightest.

Another good post.