Tetragrammaton Apocrypha

[Big_Dummy]

A Jehovah’s Witness claims that the Tetragrammaton is not used in the Apocrypha, is this true?

 

[DavidFilmer]

A Jehovah’s Witness claims that the Tetragrammaton is not used in the Apocrypha, is this true?

Yes, it’s true. The Tetragrammaton is how the Jews wrote the name of God in Hebrew. The Apocrypha was written in Greek, so it wouldn’t have Hebrew words in it (likewise, the New Testament does not contain the Tetragrammaton).

 

[Evan]

The Apocrypha was written in Greek, so it wouldn’t have Hebrew words in it.

I think some recent archeological finds have found some of the Apocrypha in Hebrew.

See jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/apocrypha.html

When They Were Written

The oldest known Jewish work not included in the Bible is the Book of Enoch. This is a complex work, written in the third (or perhaps even the late fourth) century BCE, after the return from the Babylonian Exile and the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth (6th-5th centuries BCE) and before the Maccabean revolt in 172 BCE. The oldest copies of the Book of Enoch, dating from the third century BCE, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls (see below).

The latest of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha are the Apocalypses of Ezra and Baruch, written in the decades following the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE. These works, contemporary with those of the early Rabbinic school of Yavneh, reflect the theological and ethical struggles and dilemmas aroused by the Roman conquest of Judea and the destruction of the Temple.

Most of these works were written in the Land of Israel, in Aramaic or Hebrew. However, some of them, such as The Wisdom of Solomon, were written in Greek. These Jewish Greek writings were produced in the widespread Jewish Diaspora of the time, mainly in Egypt (Alexandria) and in North Africa. Although most of the Hebrew and Aramaic texts have been lost over the centuries, many of them, translated into Greek or Oriental Christian languages (such as Ethiopic, Syriac or Armenian) have been found. Early Christianity showed great interest in Jewish traditions and stories about biblical figures and events, and as a result scholars now have access to a substantial library of Jewish writing, created during a crucial period of Jewish history, but preserved only within the Christian tradition.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I think some recent archeological finds have found some of the Apocrypha in Hebrew.

Then whatever portion may have originally been in Hebrew would, of course, employ the Tetragrammaton whenever it talked about God. The tetragrammaton (literally, “four-letter word”) is simply the Hebrew word for “the LORD,” and it would occur anywhere that a Jewish writer mentioned God. It’s not a Greek word, so it would not occur at all in Greek writings.

I’m not sure what the JW guy’s intent was in bringing this up. Is he trying to infer that the Greek Apocrypha is inferior to the Hebrew cannon because the tetragrammaton is a Hebrew word and is not found in Greek writings? If so, he has to toss out the New Testament as well. But maybe he can keep Enoch.

 

[Big_Dummy]

How do they restore or find the Tetragrammaton in the NT? that may be a way to demonstrate it was in mind in the Greek Apocrypha books.

 

[DavidFilmer]

How do they restore or find the Tetragrammaton in the NT? that may be a way to demonstrate it was in mind in the Greek Apocrypha books.

I don’t understand the question. The NT was written in Greek (the ancient historian Josephus says that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew, but no copies have survived).

In Greek, the name of God was usually written as “Kyrios” (κύριος, “Lord”) or sometimes “Theos” (θεός, “God”). It was NEVER written as the tetragrammaton (יהוה) (those aren’t even Greek characters - no Greek (or Hellenistic Jew) would have any idea what that meant).

Nobody has ever “found or restored the tetragrammaton” in the NT. It was never there to begin with (except maybe in Matthew). יהוה is a Hebrew word. The NT does not contain Hebrew (or Russian or Mandarin Chinese or English).

If you were a Jew writing about God in Hebrew, you wrote יהוה. If you were a Jew writing about God in Greek, you (usually) wrote κύριος. These are two different languages, and have two different words (using two different sets of characters).

Surely the LORD was in the mind of both the writers of the Apocrypha and the NT, but they were writing in different languages and thus used different words. In English, I use the word “LORD” which would have been unfamiliar to anyone in the ancient world.

 

[JackQ]

A Jehovah’s Witness claims that the Tetragrammaton is not used in the Apocrypha, is this true?

It’s not in the New Testament either. None of the Greek Scriptures have it.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I don’t understand the question. The NT was written in Greek (the ancient historian Josephus says that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew, but no copies have survived).

In Greek, the name of God was usually written as “Kyrios” (κύριος, “Lord”) or sometimes “Theos” (θεός, “God”). It was NEVER written as the tetragrammaton (יהוה) (those aren’t even Greek characters - no Greek (or Hellenistic Jew) would have any idea what that meant).

Nobody has ever “found or restored the tetragrammaton” in the NT. It was never there to begin with (except maybe in Matthew). יהוה is a Hebrew word. The NT does not contain Hebrew (or Russian or Mandarin Chinese or English).

If you were a Jew writing about God in Hebrew, you wrote יהוה. If you were a Jew writing about God in Greek, you (usually) wrote κύριος. These are two different languages, and have two different words (using two different sets of characters).

Surely the LORD was in the mind of both the writers of the Apocrypha and the NT, but they were writing in different languages and thus used different words. In English, I use the word “LORD” which would have been unfamiliar to anyone in the ancient world.

You are heading somewhat in the right direction. From the watchtower online site, they explain how they put the tetragrammation back into the NT.

Not only Matthew but all the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures quoted verses from the Hebrew text or from the Septuagint where the divine name appears. For example, in Peter’s speech in Ac 3:22 a quotation is made from De 18:15 where the Tetragrammaton appears in a papyrus fragment of the Septuagint dated to the first century B.C.E. (See App 1C §1.) As a follower of Christ, Peter used God’s name, Jehovah. When Peter’s speech was put on record the Tetragrammaton was here used according to the practice during the first century B.C.E. and the first century C.E.

Sometime during the second or third century C.E. the scribes removed the Tetragrammaton from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with Ky’ri·os, “Lord” or The·os’, “God.”

…

George Howard (1977, The Tetragram in the New Testament, JBL 63-84) has argued convincingly that the tetragrammaton even occurred in the NT. Albert Pietersma (1984, Kyrios or Tetragram. A Renewed Quest for the Original Septuagint, in De Septuaginta Studies in Honour of John William Wevers on his sixty-fifth birthday, eds A Pietersma and C Cox.) also argued convincingly that the tetragrammaton was sunbstituted by KURIOS in the ORIGINAL LXX manuscripts. He took as his point of departure late manuscripts of the LXX with KURIOS and pointed out that hundreds of times in the Hebrew text we find LYHWH (preposition le (=to)+ tetragrammaton).

jehovah.to/exe/translation/nwterrors1.htm

If I understand their “logic” where the Tetragram was used in the Hebrew Bible, it was carried over into the greek translation of the OT. Where the NT quotes the OT where the Tetragram existed it was then carried over into the NT. Later, the Church changed the Tetragram to Greek Kurios, LORD in English. So, to recover the divine name in the NT or in the deutocanonical books, one needs to first locate everywhere the word Kurious is used and see if it is in fact a quote from the Hebrew Bible, then one can clearly say this or that passage uses the Tetragram.

The manuscript proof?

Septuagint manuscripts with יהוה in a Greek text.
A montage of nine examples
Scribal confusion in copying the Tetragrammaton
PFaouad 266b (1st century bce)
POxy 1007b (3rd century ce)
Nahal Hever Minor Prophets ( 0 bce / ce)
POxy 3522 (1st century ce)
POxy 1007 (3rd century ce)
A catalog of ancient manuscripts
…

A bce Jewish manuscript using Kurios rather than יהוה.
Qumran 4Q126 (1st century bce)

Representations of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton.
Seven examples (1st century bce to 7th ce)

Other useful information.

X. Origen’s Hexapla with יהוה and PIPI
Appendix J: Origen’s Hexapla
The Hexapla’s six columns
The Ambrosiana O 39 Sup. manuscript

tetragrammaton.org/lxx.html

 

[Big_Dummy]

archive.org/details/WatchTowerBibleandTractSocietyofPennsylvaniaWatchTowerpubs_0

You can download their Kingdom Interlinear for the NT at the above link.

Their NWT part of it reads something like,

2 Thessalonians 2:1-17
1 However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of YOU 2 not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.

watchtower.org/e/bible/2th/chapter_002.htm

First look at verse 2 in this passage, there is the phrase “day of Jehovah”, the Greek behind Jehovah is Kurious as expected. Thus point out that Kurious in this grammar and context means Jehovah. Now, look at verse 1, it is the same grammar and context, therefore to be consistent one would have to translate this as “our Jehovah Jesus Christ”.

I once used this “logic” with one of their district big whigs, who I learned later labeled me as being a demon. I had JWs coming to my door just to see what a demon looks like.

Anyway, I am thinking one could compile from their translation or NWT concordance all the NT Greek pasages where they translates Kurious as Jehovah, then using a LXX concordance list all the passages in the duetecanonicals where the word Kurious exists, cross checking them for quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures to create a listing where the Tetagram is used.

The JW is arguing that those books are not inspired because they do not use God’s name. Yes, I pointed out that it was either the book of Esther or Ruth that also does not use his name — he was perfectly fine with throwing out the book of Ruth or Esther from his bible. So, I asked him why his church has those books in their Bible.

I came up with a surprise I will post as a seperate thread and link to here.

 

[Big_Dummy]

In short, the Jehovah’s witness I am dealing with claims that the Apocrypha is not insired because it does not contain the divine name or Tetragrammaton.

I have decided to post the surprise here instead. It is reasonable to think that verses with “name of the Lord” is likely using the Tetragrammaton. Since, these verses play into watchtower bias, these may be good verses to encourage them to read those books.

webchapel-x.com/wcconc.html#AP

---

Lord and name:

---

I Esdras 1:

1. And after that king Nabuchodonosor had made him to swear by the name of the Lord, he forswore himself, and rebelled; and hardening his neck, his heart, he transgressed the laws of the Lord God of Israel.

I Esdras 6:

1. Now in the second year of the reign of Darius Aggeus and Zacharias the son of Addo, the prophets, prophesied unto the Jews in Jewry and Jerusalem in the name of the Lord God of Israel, which was upon them.
2. The Lord therefore, whose name is there called upon, utterly destroy every king and nation, that stretcheth out his hand to hinder or endamage that house of the Lord in Jerusalem.

I Esdras 8:

1. And now in some measure hath mercy been shewed unto us from thee, O Lord, that there should be left us a root and a name in the place of thy sanctuary;

II Esdras 2:

1. So he answered and said unto me, It is the Son of God???, whom they have confessed in the world. Then began I greatly to commend them that stood so stiffly for the name of the Lord.

Tobit 3:

1. Then she prayed toward the window, and said, Blessed art thou, O Lord my God, and thine holy and glorious name is blessed and honourable for ever: let all thy works praise thee for ever.

Tobit 13:

1. Many nations shall come from far to the name of the Lord God with gifts in their hands, even gifts to the King of heaven; all generations shall praise thee with great joy.

Judith 9:

1. For, behold, the Assyrians are multiplied in their power; they are exalted with horse and man; they glory in the strength of their footmen; they trust in shield, and spear, and bow, and sling; and know not that thou art the Lord that breakest the battles: the Lord is thy name.

Judith 16:

1. And Judith said, Begin unto my God with timbrels, sing unto my Lord with cymbals: tune unto him a new psalm: exalt him, and call upon his name.

I Maccabees 7:

1. Thou, O Lord, didst choose this house to be called by thy name, and to be a house of prayer and petition for thy people:

 

[Big_Dummy]

Wisdom 10:

1. Therefore the righteous spoiled the ungodly, and praised thy holy name, O Lord, and magnified with one accord thine hand, that fought for them.

Sirach 36:

1. O Lord, have mercy upon the people that is called by thy name, and upon Israel, whom thou hast named thy firstborn.

Sirach 39:

1. And therefore praise ye the Lord with the whole heart and mouth, and bless the name of the Lord.

Sirach 47:

1. By the name of the Lord God, which is called the Lord God of Israel, thou didst gather gold as tin and didst multiply silver as lead.

Sirach 50:

1. Then he went down, and lifted up his hands over the whole congregation of the children of Israel, to give the blessing of the Lord with his lips, and to rejoice in his name.
2. For if he do them, he shall be strong to all things: for the light of the Lord leadeth him, who giveth wisdom to the godly. Blessed be the name of the Lord for ever. Amen, Amen.

Sirach 51:

1. I will thank thee, O Lord and King, and praise thee, O God my Saviour: I do give praise unto thy name:
2. For thou savedst me from destruction, and deliveredst me from the evil time: therefore will I give thanks, and praise thee, and bless they name, O Lord.

Prayer of Azariah 1:

1. Blessed art thou, O Lord God of our fathers: thy name is worthy to be praised and glorified for evermore:
2. Deliver us also according to thy marvellous works, and give glory to thy name, O Lord: and let all them that do thy servants hurt be ashamed;

Prayer of Manasses 1:

i. O Lord, Almighty God of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and of their righteous seed; who hast made heaven and earth, with all the ornament thereof; who hast bound the sea by the word of thy commandment; who hast shut up the deep, and sealed it by thy terrible and glorious name; whom all men fear, and tremble before thy power; for the majesty of thy glory cannot be borne, and thine angry threatening toward sinners is importable: but thy merciful promise is unmeasurable and unsearchable; for thou art the most high Lord, of great compassion, longsuffering, very merciful, and repentest of the evils of men. Thou, O Lord, according to thy great goodness hast promised repentance and forgiveness to them that have sinned against thee: and of thine infinite mercies hast appointed repentance unto sinners, that they may be saved. Thou therefore, O Lord, that art the God of the just, hast not appointed repentance to the just, as to Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, which have not sinned against thee; but thou hast appointed repentance unto me that am a sinner: for I have sinned above the number of the sands of the sea. My transgressions, O Lord, are multiplied: my transgressions are multiplied, and I am not worthy to behold and see the height of heaven for the multitude of mine iniquities. I am bowed down with many iron bands, that I cannot life up mine head, neither have any release: for I have provoked thy wrath, and done evil before thee: I did not thy will, neither kept I thy commandments: I have set up abominations, and have multiplied offences. Now therefore I bow the knee of mine heart, beseeching thee of grace. I have sinned, O Lord, I have sinned, and I acknowledge mine iniquities: wherefore, I humbly beseech thee, forgive me, O Lord, forgive me, and destroy me not with mine iniquites. Be not angry with me for ever, by reserving evil for me; neither condemn me to the lower parts of the earth. For thou art the God, even the God of them that repent; and in me thou wilt shew all thy goodness: for thou wilt save me, that am unworthy, according to thy great mercy. Therefore I will praise thee for ever all the days of my life: for all the powers of the heavens do praise thee, and thine is the glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Related searches you can try — all together about 52 pages.

Lord:
Lord and saith:
Lord and word: