Tetragrammaton

[Steven_John]

These four letters are usually transliterated from Hebrew as IHVH in Latin, JHWH in German, French and Dutch, and JHVH/YHWH in English. This has been variously rendered as “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”, based on the Latin form of the term.[4], while the Hebrew text does not clearly indicate the omitted vowels. In English translations, it is often rendered in capital and small capital letters as “the LORD”, following Jewish tradition which reads the word as “Adonai” (“Lord”) out of respect for the name of God and the interpretation of the commandment not to take the name of God in vain.
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

I am a bit strange, I had been using His name until a friend on CAF pulled me up and offered correction.

The reason i say i am strange is that i was using His name so not to be taking his name in vain. Collins 2

1. excessively proud of one’s appearance or achievements,
2. senseless or unsuccessful, he made a vain attempt to lighten the atmosphere, n
   Collins dictionary

From the word i see it now as meaning falsely.

I got the picture from the bible that we are supposed to call upon Him and i was very serious in my endeavour so you could have a better life.

I have been told that Christian people also dont like His name being used either.

If Christian trinity is one God co equal how then it is ok to use some names but not any for fear of being vain?

Surely if all three are equal the commandment will apply to all names.

If it was just for our respect Jewish Brothers then should we not also deny the trinity, if i ask Jewish person this would surely be the bigger disrespect.

 

[Crumpy]

I don’t understand all your issues, but…

I’ve been reading Jewish commentaries on the Torah, and the YHWH is used first by Eve in Chapter two or three of Genesis.

It’s not explained how she knew this name, etc, but there it is.

When the Ten Commandments were given through Moses, the use of YHWH was given a special status. While it is found subsequently in the Torah, a Hebrew reader would use Adonai (Lord, if I’m not mistaken) or something like hashem (“name”) in compliance with the mitzvah (commandment; idiomatically, a blessing).

Since the Second Vatican Council, Catholics have been using Yaweh a lot, especially in songs, but I think it was the present Pope, Benedict XVI, who somehow conveyed that the word should not be spoken, first from respect for the name, second for respect for the Jews.

Traditional Jewish history says that the name was used only one day per year, on the Day of Atonement, by the High Priest, in the innermost Holy of Holies. Then, I remember reading someplace else that it was used daily by the priests when they burned incense twice a day inside the tabernacle.

The word was used so infrequently, that the Jews lost the exact pronunciation (so they say) and at best will print the Hebrew equivalent in the Torah but not pronounce it.

That explanation is plausible, because there are other words in the Torah that are not reliably known, for the same reason, that the oldest Hebrew did not have vowels. punctuation, spacing, paragraphs, etc. The Masoretic texts were made by Jews devoted to preservation of the Torah and other writings, and they included vowels and punctuation or other marks meant to give the best understanding of the traditional and ancient Hebrew.

 

[Steven_John]

Since the Second Vatican Council, Catholics have been using Yaweh a lot, especially in songs, but I think it was the present Pope, Benedict XVI, who somehow conveyed that the word should not be spoken, first from respect for the name, second for respect for the Jews.

Hi Bro Crumpy,
appreciate your reply, sorry if my post was hard 2 follow i am a dull crayon at times.

I am unsure from this paragraph if it is ok or not?

But also

If Catholics say the His name should not be spoken out of respect for the name why does the same not apply to the name Jesus?

 

[Roman_Army]

…Since the Second Vatican Council, Catholics have been using Yaweh a lot, especially in songs, but I think it was the present Pope, Benedict XVI, who somehow conveyed that the word should not be spoken, first from respect for the name, second for respect for the Jews…

Yes, it was the Congregation for Divine Worship who prohibited the use of “Yahweh” in any part of the liturgy. So, no longer will certain popular songs or prayers be able to be sung or prayed using it in the liturgy. Unfortunately, after Vatican II the bishops went overboard allowing so many protestant and secular things contrary to tradition into the liturgy. Now, I’m glad that recently under the direction of Pope John Paul II and now Pope Benedict XVI the Congregation for Divine Worship is setting things right once again.

 

[Steven_John]

We have had a real surge of Y—H hymns lately
Ironically coinciding with my prayer focus.

I ponder if as now i am corrected they will stop

Personally i love them, no disrespect intended the His name excites and happies me. Maybe i am defective.

 

[Roman_Army]

SteveJohn:

None of the names of God can be used in vain. That includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The reason for the tetragrammaton being unpronounceable is to affirm that God’s name is mysterious and incomprehensible by human intellect alone, and also since we do not know how the tetragrammaton is pronounced then we cannot say it is “Yahweh.” That’s just a guess. It is part of our Christian tradition to pronounce it as Lord just as our Jewish brothers do.

 

[Steven_John]

since we do not know how the tetragrammaton is pronounced then we cannot say it is “Yahweh.”

Bess ya while you say its a guess it has the most logic in regards to speaking but would not apply to writting. and i think the rule is to be for both.

I know we would not take any name attributed to God in vain but this rule is explained as for fear of it being in vain, then surely this would apply to all names as they are “co-equal” in God.

When speaking then names don’t really translate and we pronounce Yahooshua as Jesus.

 

[Mintaka]

Well, Jesus is the Greek form of Yehoshua, so it’s not incorrect; and people speaking English use the English form of the Greek form. It’s not incorrect.

But we don’t know how God’s name is pronounced. Jehovah? Probably not. Yahweh? Now scholars also think that’s not it. So how many times do you guess Somebody’s name before you just quit making up pronunciations?

It’s more polite just to say “Lord” or “Adonai”, instead of singing about Yahoo-Wahoo or whatever is the next best-guess.

 

[Steven_John]

Well, Jesus is the Greek form of Yehoshua, so it’s not incorrect; and people speaking English use the English form of the Greek form. It’s not incorrect

I thought Jesus was English and in Greek it would be Iêsous.
But understanding the intent of what you are saying it would not be incorrect.

But we don’t know how God’s name is pronounced. Jehovah? Probably not. Yahweh? Now scholars also think that’s not it. So how many times do you guess Somebody’s name before you just quit making up pronunciations?

How do we know to pronounce Abraham (pbuh) and other OT characters is it because we can find them in other writings with vowel pronunciations and if so would the same language rules not apply to Gods name?

It’s more polite just to say “Lord” or “Adonai”, instead of singing about Yahoo-Wahoo or whatever is the next best-guess

That is true then for speech but Tetragrammaton also applies to writing without vowels doesnt it?

 

[Cashue]

I thought Jesus was English and in Greek it would be Iêsous.
But understanding the intent of what you are saying it would not be incorrect.

How do we know to pronounce Abraham (pbuh) and other OT characters is it because we can find them in other writings with vowel pronunciations and if so would the same language rules not apply to Gods name?

That is true then for speech but Tetragrammaton also applies to writing without vowels doesnt it?

Yes, the name of God has been banned by the Holy catholic church, this is only good and proper since if you respect a name (or if there is any doubt about pronunciation) we do not pronounce it; thus we will replace both the tetragrammaton and the name of Jesus (since again this is not correct pronunciation).

As Jesus said, “Hallowed be thy name”! This we do by removing and replacing it with LORD or GOD (removing a name and replacing it or putting ---- when writing is how we hallow or honour that name).

Cashue

 

[Steven_John]

Yes, the name of God has been banned by the Holy catholic church, this is only good and proper since if you respect a name (or if there is any doubt about pronunciation) we do not pronounce it; thus we will replace both the tetragrammaton and the name of Jesus (since again this is not correct pronunciation).

As Jesus said, “Hallowed be thy name”! This we do by removing and replacing it with LORD or GOD (removing a name and replacing it or putting ---- when writing is how we hallow or honour that name).

Cashue

Appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut but it does not answer the questions you quoted me on.

Bless ya pray well and stay well

 

[Roman_Army]

I thought Jesus was English and in Greek it would be Iêsous.
But understanding the intent of what you are saying it would not be incorrect.

How do we know to pronounce Abraham (pbuh) and other OT characters is it because we can find them in other writings with vowel pronunciations and if so would the same language rules not apply to Gods name?

That is true then for speech but Tetragrammaton also applies to writing without vowels doesnt it?

For some reason God wanted that the Tetragrammaton not be pronounced so he ordered the Sacred Author to exclude the vowels. He did not do this just to accomodate Jewish culture. But, it was to serve a certain purpose in his Revelation and Divine plan which is that the name of God is so mysterious and infinite as to be unpronounceable by human tongue. So, the Church must respect God’s wishes in not attempting to pronouncing it. Now, it is not the same case with the name of Jesus Christ because he was incarnated and became man. He came down into the material, temporal, and mortal world and therefore it is fine to pronounce this name and use sacred images, which is why Scripture includes the vowels of this name. God has given us the name of Jesus Christ a human being like one of us and has made this name above every other name pronounceable under heaven as the epistles of St. Paul attest and the book of Revelations confirm in various visions that the Apostle John saw about the writing of Christ’s name in the heavenly temple and his Saints. Jesus Christ is the holy name of God made Flesh since he is the Word made flesh. Now, just because we pronounce the name of Jesus Christ it does not follow that we can comprehend and pronounce God’s name in our human speech. The pronunciation of “Jesus Christ” is merely an image of the mysterious unpronounceable name of God. “Jesus Christ” is the name of the human flesh of Christ and since his holy human flesh is united to the Second Person of the Trinity then it is most holy and can refer to him. But, God is so infinite, timeless, and beautiful that finite human speech being limited in time, space, and beauty is not sufficient and does not justice to the magnificent infinite beauty of the name of God.