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montanaman
Guest
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CindyGia
Guest
HAAAHHHAAAAA!
Whoooooooooooooo! Hahahahahahahahaaaa!
Oh gosh! Too much!
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Writer
Guest
If you have perceived shortcomings within your former parish, what action have you taken yourself to address the problems? What have you done to make it better? For example, a group of us former RCIA members decided we wanted to continue study of the Bible and the CCC together, so we began a discussion group which meets every other week at church. It seems you are viewing your time within the Catholic Church as more of a spectator perhaps than an active participant? I don’t know that this is the case, of course, but that’s how your post struck me.
PS. One reason it is a mortal sin to miss Mass may be found in its historical connection to Passover. It represents the New Covenant…
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estesbob
Guest
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Fredricks
Guest
Yes the reason they were accepted was being written under the inspiration of the holy Spirit, they have God as their author
and were committed to the church.
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DeFide
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MonicaC
Guest
Yes! Now isn’t it funny how all Christains know this without a doubt, but all except for Catholics tend to believe that it is okay to pick and choose from these inspired words for their own good. Not to mention butcher it to suit their own needs.
Monica
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jim1130
Guest
Peace.
I am sad that you have decided to leave the Catholic Church; however, I am particularly concerned by many of your comments. Based on these comments I draw some conclusions that may not be particularly flattering or inspiring. Again, these are conclusions drawn by your statements so if they are inaccurate then please clarify. I do not want my comments to sound like a personal attack at all, but I feel aspects of what you said should be addressed and I will work very hard to soften any comments that may be interpreted negatively.
If you were spiritually starved, is that the fault of the Catholic Church? Or would you be willing to accept some responsibility? I do not see “giving to God,” but rather “taking from God.” What were YOU looking for?
I wonder why you felt this way? Were you looking for what YOU wanted to hear? A place that endorsed your beliefs, opinions, and interpretations? It is a little hard ot meet people when you are going from one church to another.
I repeat: I wonder why you felt this way? Were you looking for what YOU wanted to hear? A place that endorsed your beliefs, opinions, and interpretations? I am very concerned that this statement indicates that you entered the Catholic Church with a “what are you going to do for me?” approach (which is why you Catholic church-shopped; to find that Catholic church which would conform to your views). I would not enter a personal or working relationship with this approach, as if the personal or working had something to prove to me. I think of John F. Kennedy’s “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.” Replace country with Catholic Church and you may see where I am coming from. Unfortunately, my interpretation of what you wrote indicated that the Catholic Church was set-up to fail since you approached it as if to negotiate a compromise with those Doctrines and Traditions that you did not accept, as if you entered the room, but kept the door behind you open for a quick escape.
(con’t)
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jim1130
Guest
(con’t)
mumof5:
I refer to what you said in Post #6 to echo my feelings and sentiment that this is really about you:
mumof5:
mumof5:
You also stated (Post #6):
mumof5:
Basically, I read that you want to negotiate with the Catholic Church, and there is no negotiation with the Real Presence (Please read the Catechism on the Eucharist).
I interpret anger and confrontation in your posts, so that leads me to believe that there may have been angry and confrontational in your dealings with the Catholic Church. Like selecting tomatoes at the super market, you determine which are the ripe ones (which you will follow) and which are the unripe ones (those that you will not follow) and then complain to a friend that most of the tomatoes at the super market are bad.
You also stated (Post #16):
mumof5:
mumof5:
(con’t)
You are extremely angry and I will not seek to diminish your anger or excuse behavior, and I am truly saddened that you felt ignored and dismissed, and am happy that your child is fine, but this matter does not really seem to be about the Catholic Church. It is about you. For as I read this, I read of someone who wants the church association to be about her. When I re-read the comment from you above (“I have always had major theological disagreements with the Catholic church”) I hear confrontation. Perhaps there is more to the story than what has been revealed.
I refer to what you said in Post #6 to echo my feelings and sentiment that this is really about you:
Here is what you said in the OP:
My fear is that God is good because you are able to negotiate the terms. Please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church that details the Doctrine and Traditions with the Bible verses to back them up.
You also stated (Post #6):
Three issues here.
Basically, I read that you want to negotiate with the Catholic Church, and there is no negotiation with the Real Presence (Please read the Catechism on the Eucharist).
I interpret anger and confrontation in your posts, so that leads me to believe that there may have been angry and confrontational in your dealings with the Catholic Church. Like selecting tomatoes at the super market, you determine which are the ripe ones (which you will follow) and which are the unripe ones (those that you will not follow) and then complain to a friend that most of the tomatoes at the super market are bad.
You also stated (Post #16):
Again, this is reemphasized throughout in the tones of your posts. Your imprint of the Catholic church is negative so I can suspect that you are quite circumspect on the Doctrines and Traditions, and that makes you vulnerable and susceptible to those who preach against the Catholic Church.
Unfortunately, no matter how you try to convince yourself otherwise, you will succumb to the interpretation of others and their denominations, as you have already indicated and shown in your posts.
(con’t)
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jim1130
Guest
(con’t)
mumof5:
mumof5:
And this may give you a perspective on both the Eucharist and the Mass: CCC - 1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did: “On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits. When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things. Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation. When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss. Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren. He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts. When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: ‘Amen.’ When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the “eucharisted” bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.
mumof5:
mumof5:
mumof5:
It is because of the Real Presence that I have Christ Spiritually and Physically and I do see.
The Mass is about worshipping God and God alone. It is not about a great choir, eloquent preacher, or if the person next to you knows your name. The Mass, plain and simple, is about worshipping God. As tactless and harsh as this sounds, succinctly put, the Mass is not about you. It is about worshipping God.
And this may give you a perspective on both the Eucharist and the Mass: CCC - 1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did: “On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits. When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things. Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation. When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss. Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren. He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts. When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: ‘Amen.’ When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the “eucharisted” bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.
Whether you wish to acknowledge this or not, but you are aligning yourself with a denomination and a that denomination’s interpretation.
More confrontation and anger, and also someone else’s interpretation to you that these “repitious” prayers are un-Biblical (please read Matthew 26:39-44).
Please understand that this acquiescence shifts responsibility for the decision even though throughout this post there has been no question as to the true originator of this decision.
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jim1130
Guest
(con’t)
mumof5:
mumof5:
mumof5:
And please accept my sincerest and heartfelt apologies if I said anything that was upsetting. That was NEVER my intention. I wish you well.
Truly, peace.
No doubt this was not an easy choice for you, but I suspect it was made easier because of what I interpret as a lack of commitment, overall, toward Catholic Church
A little bit of information can be more dangerous than no information.
After having said what I have said, I do wish you true peace and happiness. Best of luck on your journey.
And please accept my sincerest and heartfelt apologies if I said anything that was upsetting. That was NEVER my intention. I wish you well.
Truly, peace.
K
kamz
Guest
quote=jim1130
No doubt this was not an easy choice for you, but I suspect it was made easier because of what I interpret as a lack of commitment, overall, toward Catholic Church
A little bit of information can be more dangerous than no information.
After having said what I have said, I do wish you true peace and happiness. Best of luck on your journey.
And please accept my sincerest and heartfelt apologies if I said anything that was upsetting. that was NEVER my intention.
Truly, peace.
[/quote]
AWESOME
No doubt this was not an easy choice for you, but I suspect it was made easier because of what I interpret as a lack of commitment, overall, toward Catholic Church
A little bit of information can be more dangerous than no information.
After having said what I have said, I do wish you true peace and happiness. Best of luck on your journey.
And please accept my sincerest and heartfelt apologies if I said anything that was upsetting. that was NEVER my intention.
Truly, peace.
[/quote]
AWESOME
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estesbob
Guest
quote=jim1130
The Mass is about worshipping God and God alone. It is not about a great choir, eloquent preacher, or if the person next to you knows your name. The Mass, plain and simple, is about worshipping God. As tactless and harsh as this sounds, succinctly put, the Mass is not about you. It is about worshipping God.
.
[/quote]
WELL SAID!!! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_26.gif
The Mass is about worshipping God and God alone. It is not about a great choir, eloquent preacher, or if the person next to you knows your name. The Mass, plain and simple, is about worshipping God. As tactless and harsh as this sounds, succinctly put, the Mass is not about you. It is about worshipping God.
.
[/quote]
WELL SAID!!! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_26.gif
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Mickey
Guest
Exactly!
Sadly, sometimes people get their ships confused. We must emphasize the worship above the fellowship.
Fellowship is good, but God comes first.
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mumof5
Guest
Wow Jim,
Thanks for the effort!
I can honestly say that for the first time, this is not about ME. And you can’t say that anything I have been told by this church has influenced me because the church came afterwards. It is a turning point in my life where I am looking to God’s will for me instead of thinking I know God’s will for me and can set about accomplishing it myself. I’ve always approached with the ‘God helps those who help themselves mentality’ and taken things in my own hands. This time, I said, OK, I need you, show me the way you want me to go and where I can serve and glorify you. And I didn’t have to lift a finger. The way was made clear for me because for the first time, I let Jesus do the work for me and guide me. I totally put ME out of it.
My views on doctrine have not changed. I went to the Catholic church, having grown up loosely Catholic, because I had a friend there and wanted to go to a church. Nothing has changed there. I am not fussed on denomination. I am not angry at the individual shortcomings of members as I perceive them. I merely illustrate that this really tells a lot. The Bible says we will know the true followers of Jesus by their fruits. What kind of fruit have I seen? On the other hand, looking at the fruits in my life now that weren’t there before, and the fruits of those I see in my new church, there’s something there. I’ve never carried a Bible in my bag before, figured I knew it well enough to not really have to read it much. Now I do. I pray more often.I am more generous towards God and my fellow man. Can’t say it’s doing anything bad.
OK - your next post.
Thanks for the effort!
I can honestly say that for the first time, this is not about ME. And you can’t say that anything I have been told by this church has influenced me because the church came afterwards. It is a turning point in my life where I am looking to God’s will for me instead of thinking I know God’s will for me and can set about accomplishing it myself. I’ve always approached with the ‘God helps those who help themselves mentality’ and taken things in my own hands. This time, I said, OK, I need you, show me the way you want me to go and where I can serve and glorify you. And I didn’t have to lift a finger. The way was made clear for me because for the first time, I let Jesus do the work for me and guide me. I totally put ME out of it.
My views on doctrine have not changed. I went to the Catholic church, having grown up loosely Catholic, because I had a friend there and wanted to go to a church. Nothing has changed there. I am not fussed on denomination. I am not angry at the individual shortcomings of members as I perceive them. I merely illustrate that this really tells a lot. The Bible says we will know the true followers of Jesus by their fruits. What kind of fruit have I seen? On the other hand, looking at the fruits in my life now that weren’t there before, and the fruits of those I see in my new church, there’s something there. I’ve never carried a Bible in my bag before, figured I knew it well enough to not really have to read it much. Now I do. I pray more often.I am more generous towards God and my fellow man. Can’t say it’s doing anything bad.
OK - your next post.
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mumof5
Guest
For as I read this, I read of someone who wants the church association to be about her.
Then you read wrong because if I wanted it to be about me, the easy way would be to simply trot along to what is familiar every Sunday morning.
Perhaps there is more to the story than what has been revealed.
do you think it’s possible to cover 32 years of life here?
Please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church that details the Doctrine and Traditions with the Bible verses to back them up.
I have, it doesn’t change my mind. Only God, through his spirit, can do that.
I interpret anger and confrontation in your posts, so that leads me to believe that there may have been angry and confrontational in your dealings with the Catholic Church.
Definitely not. I have weathered every storm in silence. Not that I wouldn’t have welcomed the opportunity to discuss things. The opportunity just wasn’t there. And don’t say do it here. If you look through the forums you’ll see what happens to anyone here who dares to question the teachings of the church. Even so, the Bible tells us to Test all things, make sure of all things, and hold on to what is fine.
Again, this is reemphasized throughout in the tones of your posts. Your imprint of the Catholic church is negative so I can suspect that you are quite circumspect on the Doctrines and Traditions, and that makes you vulnerable and susceptible to those who preach against the Catholic Church.
I’m not vulnerable to anything and I do know church history. I have a background in historical research so have no difficulties researching and refining such information.
Unfortunately, no matter how you try to convince yourself otherwise, you will succumb to the interpretation of others and their denominations, as you have already indicated and shown in your posts.
Just as well that I haven’t had any (name removed by moderator)ut that has changed any of my views from anywhere else then.
Then you read wrong because if I wanted it to be about me, the easy way would be to simply trot along to what is familiar every Sunday morning.
Perhaps there is more to the story than what has been revealed.
do you think it’s possible to cover 32 years of life here?
Please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church that details the Doctrine and Traditions with the Bible verses to back them up.
I have, it doesn’t change my mind. Only God, through his spirit, can do that.
I interpret anger and confrontation in your posts, so that leads me to believe that there may have been angry and confrontational in your dealings with the Catholic Church.
Definitely not. I have weathered every storm in silence. Not that I wouldn’t have welcomed the opportunity to discuss things. The opportunity just wasn’t there. And don’t say do it here. If you look through the forums you’ll see what happens to anyone here who dares to question the teachings of the church. Even so, the Bible tells us to Test all things, make sure of all things, and hold on to what is fine.
Again, this is reemphasized throughout in the tones of your posts. Your imprint of the Catholic church is negative so I can suspect that you are quite circumspect on the Doctrines and Traditions, and that makes you vulnerable and susceptible to those who preach against the Catholic Church.
I’m not vulnerable to anything and I do know church history. I have a background in historical research so have no difficulties researching and refining such information.
Unfortunately, no matter how you try to convince yourself otherwise, you will succumb to the interpretation of others and their denominations, as you have already indicated and shown in your posts.
Just as well that I haven’t had any (name removed by moderator)ut that has changed any of my views from anywhere else then.
M
mumof5
Guest
Please understand that this acquiescence shifts responsibility for the decision even though throughout this post there has been no question as to the true originator of this decision.
OK, I’ll give you that, but if everyone was excited about going to the Catholic church and prefered it, that’s where I would be going.
OK, I’ll give you that, but if everyone was excited about going to the Catholic church and prefered it, that’s where I would be going.
M
mumof5
Guest
No doubt this was not an easy choice for you, but I suspect it was made easier because of what I interpret as a lack of commitment, overall, toward Catholic Church
Yes, that would be fair statement. As I’ve said, I’m not fussed on denomination. So I did have a lack of commitment to the Catholic church. I’ve always felt that where we worship, to some degree, is less important than that we worship.
And please accept my sincerest and heartfelt apologies if I said anything that was upsetting. That was NEVER my intention. I wish you well.
No, not at all, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to share from your heart. I suspect all the posters here together would make for one awesome, strong church.
Yes, that would be fair statement. As I’ve said, I’m not fussed on denomination. So I did have a lack of commitment to the Catholic church. I’ve always felt that where we worship, to some degree, is less important than that we worship.
And please accept my sincerest and heartfelt apologies if I said anything that was upsetting. That was NEVER my intention. I wish you well.
No, not at all, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to share from your heart. I suspect all the posters here together would make for one awesome, strong church.
M
MonicaC
Guest
Okay so are you saying that you are looking for aceptence? No one ever said that being Catholic would be one of world wide acceptence and we can see that it plainly isn’t. It is hard but remember life is short, and in the end we will be judge on what we did not who accepted us doing it.
I guess if you are leaving because that is what everyone else is doing than I will refure back to my mother who always said just because everyone else jumped off a cliff would you?
Monica
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