Thanksgiving at my wife's Mormon ward

[Allweather]

Ok - you really do not know me. I am NOT going to call the missionaries…I never was! I was trying to make apont that you are more likely to drive someone away from the truth than lead them to it by pretending to know who they are and what they believe just by what you seen in a snapshot of their life here on the boards!

If you MUST know, I have recently come home, had my marraige annulled and am getting my current marriage blessed by the church. I am most defineately NOT headed in the other direction!

I was merely trying to participate in a discussion on this board. I was not aware that differing points of view were so intolerable to others.

I am not interested in this anymore if I cannot state an opinion or thought without having someone pass judgement on me. After all, I thought this was the “Non Catholic Religions” board where there would be other views expressed without the fear of having those ideas condemned by those who THINK they know what they are talking about!

Anne

That is good news! I’m sorry if I personally said anything to you that offended. One thing I’ve discovered in the few years that I’ve been debating religion and politics, is that a thick skin is a good thing to have, LOL. Like you, I have recently “come home” after some ten years in near-apostasy. My marriage fell apart in the mid-90s; I drew away from God and His Church, and became a very sinful person. It is the Mormon lady I mentioned earlier who has been so instrumental in bringing me to my senses. It is a very long story, but the endpoint I would make is that true faith people are found in LDS, as they are in every other religion. She told me a story about her conversion. She’d gone to a funeral and had taken her rosary beads with her. Beside the grave she continued to pray about the truth of the BoM, and at the end of the funeral she discovered she’d “lost” her rosary. She took this as a divine sign, and immediately got baptized Mormon. Thirty years later, we started praying the rosary together pretty much every day (full circle, so to speak). We are both learning the faith anew, and in deeper manner than ever before. Yet, the real faith she has, as of a little child, transcends either church, Mormon or Catholic. I tell her she is a “natural” Christian, and perhaps this is a result of her Catholic upbringing (I like to believe it is), of which she has very little conscious memory. God willing, we will be married as soon as our religious issues are ironed out. I tell this in order to affirm my belief that God is much bigger than any of our churches, including the Catholic. He honors a contrite heart that comes to Him as it is, in whatever religious clothing. Many LDS people are genuine truth-seekers, and many of them have genuine faith. LDS theology and history can’t stand up to scrutiny, with which I think you probably agree. I don’t think that we are debating faith, but rather, the nuts and bolts of theology and history.

 

[zerinus]

Ok - you really do not know me. I am NOT going to call the missionaries…I never was! I was trying to make apont that you are more likely to drive someone away from the truth than lead them to it by pretending to know who they are and what they believe just by what you seen in a snapshot of their life here on the boards!

If you MUST know, I have recently come home, had my marraige annulled and am getting my current marriage blessed by the church. I am most defineately NOT headed in the other direction!

I was merely trying to participate in a discussion on this board. I was not aware that differing points of view were so intolerable to others.

I am not interested in this anymore if I cannot state an opinion or thought without having someone pass judgement on me. After all, I thought this was the “Non Catholic Religions” board where there would be other views expressed without the fear of having those ideas condemned by those who THINK they know what they are talking about!

Anne

Thank you AnneBOK for your fair comments about LDS. I am LDS! Now that you have come thus far, why don’t you tell us your story, and how you came to be acquainted with LDS matters.

zerinus

 

[AnneBOK]

That is good news! I’m sorry if I personally said anything to you that offended. One thing I’ve discovered in the few years that I’ve been debating religion and politics, is that a thick skin is a good thing to have, LOL. Like you, I have recently “come home” after some ten years in near-apostasy. My marriage fell apart in the mid-90s; I drew away from God and His Church, and became a very sinful person. It is the Mormon lady I mentioned earlier who has been so instrumental in bringing me to my senses. It is a very long story, but the endpoint I would make is that true faith people are found in LDS, as they are in every other religion. She told me a story about her conversion. She’d gone to a funeral and had taken her rosary beads with her. Beside the grave she continued to pray about the truth of the BoM, and at the end of the funeral she discovered she’d “lost” her rosary. She took this as a divine sign, and immediately got baptized Mormon. Thirty years later, we started praying the rosary together pretty much every day (full circle, so to speak). We are both learning the faith anew, and in deeper manner than ever before. Yet, the real faith she has, as of a little child, transcends either church, Mormon or Catholic. I tell her she is a “natural” Christian, and perhaps this is a result of her Catholic upbringing (I like to believe it is), of which she has very little conscious memory. God willing, we will be married as soon as our religious issues are ironed out. I tell this in order to affirm my belief that God is much bigger than any of our churches, including the Catholic. He honors a contrite heart that comes to Him as it is, in whatever religious clothing. Many LDS people are genuine truth-seekers, and many of them have genuine faith. LDS theology and history can’t stand up to scrutiny, with which I think you probably agree. I don’t think that we are debating faith, but rather, the nuts and bolts of theology and history.

Thank you for your note. A thick skin I most certainly do not have - especially this week. Last week I had a death in the family and I had a falling out with my mother who is also dying…Sooo…I have had better weeks. I just like to try to see ALL points of view - it does not mean that I believe it all. My daughter is LDS - hence my familiarity with the church. She respects my choice of churches and I respect hers. We interchangeably attend eachother’s when it is possible - just to be able to spend time together.

Anne

 

[Allweather]

Thank you for your note. A thick skin I most certainly do not have - especially this week. Last week I had a death in the family and I had a falling out with my mother who is also dying…Sooo…I have had better weeks. I just like to try to see ALL points of view - it does not mean that I believe it all. My daughter is LDS - hence my familiarity with the church. She respects my choice of churches and I respect hers. We interchangeably attend eachother’s when it is possible - just to be able to spend time together.

Anne

Anne, I will keep you in my prayers today. My fiance’s oldest son, recently returned from a mission in Mexico, is very devout Mormon. He’s had nothing to say to me regarding his mother’s obvious reembrace of the ancient faith, but I feel sure that it is causing him some discomfort. “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” Rom 8:28

 

[tundramom]

Anne,
I applaud your efforts to support your daughter and to love her despite her religious choice.

My own Mother, who is a life-long Mormon, has had nothing to do with me or her grand children since I left Mormonism and became a Catholic. She has not even met my youngest daughter, who is 9 and she refuses to be a part of our lives. I have tried to contact her whenever we have been to Utah and I continue to send her birthday cards, Christmas cards and Easter Cards. No response. I have gone so far as to request a notification from the Provo Daily Herald in the obituary section because I doubt highly if anyone would let me know if she should die.

I applaud your efforts. I am praying for you and for your daughter and I pray she sees the lies of mormonism for what they are.

in Christ
Steph

 

[Victorious]

Ok - you really do not know me. I am NOT going to call the missionaries…I never was! I was trying to make apont that you are more likely to drive someone away from the truth than lead them to it by pretending to know who they are and what they believe just by what you seen in a snapshot of their life here on the boards!

Nobody was passing judgment on you. It is, however, perfectly legitimate to judge your words, which strongly indicated an inclination to error. I make no apologies for answering with the truth.

By the way, the attempt to lay on me the responsibility for your threatened apostacy was pretty ugly. I’m sorry things are going so badly for you, but that was quite unjustified.

 

[zerinus]

Anne,
I applaud your efforts to support your daughter and to love her despite her religious choice.

My own Mother, who is a life-long Mormon, has had nothing to do with me or her grand children since I left Mormonism and became a Catholic. She has not even met my youngest daughter, who is 9 and she refuses to be a part of our lives. I have tried to contact her whenever we have been to Utah and I continue to send her birthday cards, Christmas cards and Easter Cards. No response. I have gone so far as to request a notification from the Provo Daily Herald in the obituary section because I doubt highly if anyone would let me know if she should die.

I applaud your efforts. I am praying for you and for your daughter and I pray she sees the lies of mormonism for what they are.

in Christ
Steph

I am amazed by what you have written. This is not the general attitude of Mormons to others, and especially to members of their own family. It is not how Church leaders advise Church members to behave.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Nobody was passing judgment on you. It is, however, perfectly legitimate to judge your words, which strongly indicated an inclination to error. I make no apologies for answering with the truth.

And I don’t blame her for coming to the conclusion that your “truth” was nothing more than falsehood and error. Your post was cheap, mean, vicious, nasty, and full of empty “airs”. It contains nothing to recommend Catholicism to anybody. I am glad you are not a representative of the majority of Catholics I know.

By the way, the attempt to lay on me the responsibility for your threatened apostacy was pretty ugly. I’m sorry things are going so badly for you, but that was quite unjustified.

I didn’t get the impression that anything was going “badly” for her at all. She seemed to me to be doing pretty good.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

I am amazed by what you have written. This is not the general attitude of Mormons to others, and especially to members of their own family. It is not how Church leaders advise Church members to behave.

zerinus

Based on my own experience, I totally agree with Z. The LDS people I know are extremely nice. Several members of my girlfriend’s family have fallen away from the LDS church in one way or the other, but none have ever been criticised for it AFAIK.

 

[AnneBOK]

Anne,
I applaud your efforts to support your daughter and to love her despite her religious choice.

My own Mother, who is a life-long Mormon, has had nothing to do with me or her grand children since I left Mormonism and became a Catholic. She has not even met my youngest daughter, who is 9 and she refuses to be a part of our lives. I have tried to contact her whenever we have been to Utah and I continue to send her birthday cards, Christmas cards and Easter Cards. No response. I have gone so far as to request a notification from the Provo Daily Herald in the obituary section because I doubt highly if anyone would let me know if she should die.

I applaud your efforts. I am praying for you and for your daughter and I pray she sees the lies of mormonism for what they are.

in Christ
Steph

Steph - thank you forthe kudos! I think that it is very wrong for ANYONE who claims to be a Christian to treat another as your family has treated you because you chose a different church than them. I hope that someone that they trust will enlighten them as to their UN-Christlike behavior. You and yours are in my prayers!

Anne

 

[AnneBOK]

Nobody was passing judgment on you. It is, however, perfectly legitimate to judge your words, which strongly indicated an inclination to error. I make no apologies for answering with the truth.

By the way, the attempt to lay on me the responsibility for your threatened apostacy was pretty ugly. I’m sorry things are going so badly for you, but that was quite unjustified.

Truth is very often in the eye of the beholder…We obviously see with very different eyes.

Anne

 

[AnneBOK]

And I don’t blame her for coming to the conclusion that your “truth” was nothing more than falsehood and error. Your post was cheap, mean, vicious, nasty, and full of empty “airs”. It contains nothing to recommend Catholicism to anybody. I am glad you are not a representative of the majority of Catholics I know.

I didn’t get the impression that anything was going “badly” for her at all. She seemed to me to be doing pretty good.

zerinus

Thank you Zerinus
Anne

 

[PaulDupre]

I am amazed by what you have written. This is not the general attitude of Mormons to others, and especially to members of their own family. It is not how Church leaders advise Church members to behave.

zerinus

Nevertheless, Z, that is how most people are treated when they leave the LDS, and this behavior seems to be a staple of Mormon culture.

My wife and I were treated shamefully by our so-called LDS friends and by our LDS relatives. To this day my brother’s BIC Mormon wife hangs up on me when I call. He and I were very close when we were young and it hurts me deeply. The one time I got the chance to ask her if I could talk to my brother, she said “you won’t be with us in the celestial kingdom, so you’re not our family anymore!”. Yeah, the family-centered church.

When my brother, sister and I were all at my parents’ home a few years ago, it was miserable. Since I left the morg, I have never brought up the subject of religion with my brother and sister, but they never stopped making rude little comments about Catholics. It is like they are programmed. This was very distressing to my parents, who are very devout catholics in their 80’s. I don’t remember my siblings being nasty and hurtful like that before they became LDS.

God have mercy on them,
Paul

 

[zerinus]

Nevertheless, Z, that is how most people are treated when they leave the LDS, and this behavior seems to be a staple of Mormon culture.

My wife and I were treated shamefully by our so-called LDS friends and by our LDS relatives. To this day my brother’s BIC Mormon wife hangs up on me when I call. He and I were very close when we were young and it hurts me deeply. The one time I got the chance to ask her if I could talk to my brother, she said “you won’t be with us in the celestial kingdom, so you’re not our family anymore!”. Yeah, the family-centered church.

When my brother, sister and I were all at my parents’ home a few years ago, it was miserable. Since I left the morg, I have never brought up the subject of religion with my brother and sister, but they never stopped making rude little comments about Catholics. It is like they are programmed. This was very distressing to my parents, who are very devout catholics in their 80’s. I don’t remember my siblings being nasty and hurtful like that before they became LDS.

God have mercy on them,
Paul

I find it hard to believe any of this. This is not the Mormonism that I know.

zerinus

 

[PaulDupre]

I should post the horror stories from “Mormons Have My Child”, a yahoo email forum for people whose children have joined the Mormons. In every case (about 180 of them to date), the children have cut off nearly all communication, become sullen and confrontational, have prevented the non-LDS parents from seeing their grandchildren, have mystriously forgotten every happy memory of their “gentile” childhood, declared their parents “unworthy” and exhibited other bizzare and anti-family behaviors. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

Paul

 

[zerinus]

I should post the horror stories from “Mormons Have My Child”, a yahoo email forum for people whose children have joined the Mormons. In every case (about 180 of them to date), the children have cut off nearly all communication, become sullen and confrontational, have prevented the non-LDS parents from seeing their grandchildren, have mystriously forgotten every happy memory of their “gentile” childhood, declared their parents “unworthy” and exhibited other bizzare and anti-family behaviors. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

Paul

You can post if you like; but I don’t believe a word of it. That is not the Mormonism I know.

zerinus

 

[IanS]

You can post if you like; but I don’t believe a word of it. That is not the Mormonism I know.

zerinus

Z

True, this is not the Mormonism most people know, but don’t accuse someone of being a liar just because you don’t like what they have to say about some individuals. Any Mormons I’ve ever known are very decent people, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t those who take things to such extremes that they end up violating the teachings of the very religion with which they are so extreme. This is common in all religions (Yes even Catholics).

The charitable response would be, “I’m sorry if that is the experience you’ve had with members of the Mormon Church. However, please keep in mind that these people are just individuals and their actions are not consistent with the general teachings of the Mormon Church.”

 

[zerinus]

Z

True, this is not the Mormonism most people know, but don’t accuse someone of being a liar just because you don’t like what they have to say about some individuals. Any Mormons I’ve ever known are very decent people, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t those who take things to such extremes that they end up violating the teachings of the very religion with which they are so extreme. This is common in all religions (Yes even Catholics).

I was replying to his “… stories from “Mormons Have My Child”, a yahoo email forum for people whose children have joined the Mormons” claim; not his personal experiences.

The charitable response would be, “I’m sorry if that is the experience you’ve had with members of the Mormon Church. However, please keep in mind that these people are just individuals and their actions are not consistent with the general teachings of the Mormon Church.”

I believe he already knows that. I won’t need to tell him.

zerinus

 

[christianley]

I should post the horror stories from “Mormons Have My Child”, a yahoo email forum for people whose children have joined the Mormons. In every case (about 180 of them to date), the children have cut off nearly all communication, become sullen and confrontational, have prevented the non-LDS parents from seeing their grandchildren, have mystriously forgotten every happy memory of their “gentile” childhood, declared their parents “unworthy” and exhibited other bizzare and anti-family behaviors. This seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

Paul

I don’t believe it is the rule at all. Both my wife and I became Mormons and were accepted by our families and we accept them. I know several other young Mormon converts in the same boat and haven’t ever seen them turn their backs on their families. It is likely that a web site like that is going to attract the horror stories rather than the more normal case where everyone still gets along. That is not the problem of the LDS Church, but of the converts who go crazy.

The biggest problem is when one spouse converts out of Mormonism. I know several ex-Mormon spouses who have been cut off by their Mormon spouse for leaving or becoming inactive in Mormonism.

 

[tundramom]

You can post if you like; but I don’t believe a word of it. That is not the Mormonism I know.

zerinus

are you calling me a liar Z?

in Christ
Steph