That mean Church

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Lillith

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Hello all…

I was wondering how you deal with the apologetics when it comes to the hardest people in the world to talk to about the subject…the ex-Catholics

I have run across more ex-Catholics and the falsehoods that they spread about the Church are truely damaging…most common examples:

"I left the Church because they refused to Baptise my baby"

…period. No explanation of the obvious, which is the fact that the priest did not baptise the baby because he didn’t allow the parents to make false promises to the Church about raising the child Catholic…because they never attend church. When I ask this person about their Church attendence they always “go weekly”…very hard to refute of course. And there it sits, usually this has happened in front of a group of other non-Catholics, and I don’t want to let it go, but to continue would be to call this person a liar…frustrating.

"I was excommunicated because I married outside the Church"

Now I know this is wrong…because I would have been excommunicated also :bigyikes: …I explain softly that they are wrong, but I get met with anger, hostility that honestly freaks me out. I mean really…excommunication is a process that involves paperwork and a “court date” of sorts…it is a very involved, but I have literally met at least a dozen “excommunicated Catholics”

All in all…it is frustrating…and damaging to the Church, because you get into a conversation with these folks and they try to speak with authority because they were Catholic, and they hold grudges.

Normally, I’ll say…are you sure you can’t baptise your baby? Go talk to a different priest…just to get them somewhere, and to leave the other non-Catholics standing around with a drop of the idea that this former Catholic could be wrong…

Are you sure you were ex-communicated…same thing…go talk to a priest. But I am still left feeling inadequate…
 
I have run into the same problem of “Ex-Catholics”, though admittadly in fewwer numbers, who bring bigger charges (i.e. whorship of Mary, killing christ at eavry mass, ect.)(He is the “Fundamentalist Gentleman” {whom I always run into} that I speak of in most of my threads) I am also wondering what to do with him (as to stop him from telling these rather adactous lies {weather his own or what he was told to leave the church } so people won’t be drawn away from the faith if not bring him back to the church) if anyone has some suggestions, we would be more than happy for the help? :o
 
Montie Claunch:
I have run into the same problem of “Ex-Catholics”, though admittadly in fewwer numbers, who bring bigger charges (i.e. whorship of Mary, killing christ at eavry mass, ect.)(He is the “Fundamentalist Gentleman” {whom I always run into} that I speak of in most of my threads) I am also wondering what to do with him (as to stop him from telling these rather adactous lies {weather his own or what he was told to leave the church } so people won’t be drawn away from the faith if not bring him back to the church) if anyone has some suggestions, we would be more than happy for the help? :oOne of our more audacious young posters (was it dumspirospero?) wrote that when people who clearly knew better said stuff like, “You worship Mary,” he would say: “Why are you bearing false witness?” OK. May not be the most diplomatic thing in the world but it would get their attention!
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mercygate:
One of our more audacious young posters (was it dumspirospero?) wrote that when people who clearly knew better said stuff like, “You worship Mary,” he would say: “Why are you bearing false witness?” OK. May not be the most diplomatic thing in the world but it would get their attention!
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I like that…
 
It would seem that all fallen away Catholics need to have some justification for leaving whether it holds water or not. My Grandmother who left at a young age to become Lutheran, my Grandfather was Lutheran, always blamed it on the priest who came down off the altar to tell someone to leave as they had not paid their pew rent. Pew rent was apparently a practice in some parishes at some time in the past. If you go into some of the older churches the pews are still numbered because people were assigned to a particular pew. Whether they actually paid rent is something I cannot verify.
 
A famous writer (she’s not getting her name mentioned here) claims that her family stopped going to church and became atheist due to a* mean priest*. Her story is that a priest would not come to give the Last Rites to a relative (grandmother, I think) unless he received $25.00 in advance.

I doubt the story, as $25.00 at the time the event allegedly happened would have been over a week’s salary.

I heard from one person that the reason he stopped attending Mass was that all he heard about in church was how sinful we are and that the Devil is lurking around every corner. This was about eight years ago, so I asked him where this parish was; I might have found a visit there refreshing. 🙂

Unfortunately, he could not name the parish. :hmmm:
 
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severinus:
A famous writer (she’s not getting her name mentioned here) claims that her family stopped going to church and became atheist due to a* mean priest*. Her story is that a priest would not come to give the Last Rites to a relative (grandmother, I think) unless he received $25.00 in advance.

I doubt the story, as $25.00 at the time the event allegedly happened would have been over a week’s salary.

I heard from one person that the reason he stopped attending Mass was that all he heard about in church was how sinful we are and that the Devil is lurking around every corner. This was about eight years ago, so I asked him where this parish was; I might have found a visit there refreshing. 🙂

Unfortunately, he could not name the parish. :hmmm:
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These aren’t real reasons, are they? They’re excuses!
 
I had an ex-Catholic tell me “Well I don’t go because not all Catholics are saved”.

I said, “Not true. That is not what the Catechism teaches”.

He said, “Well, I mean not saved like I am saved now”.

I said, “Still not true. That’s not what the Catechism teaches”.

He got so frustrated, because that was the only answer I ever gave, that he read the Catechism to prove me wrong.

He now attends weekly Mass to prove we are not Bible Christians.

He is having a very difficult time justifying not being an active Catholic. His name is Rick. Please keep praying for him.
 
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severinus:
A famous writer (she’s not getting her name mentioned here) claims that her family stopped going to church and became atheist due to a* mean priest*. Her story is that a priest would not come to give the Last Rites to a relative (grandmother, I think) unless he received $25.00 in advance.

I doubt the story, as $25.00 at the time the event allegedly happened would have been over a week’s salary.

I heard from one person that the reason he stopped attending Mass was that all he heard about in church was how sinful we are and that the Devil is lurking around every corner. This was about eight years ago, so I asked him where this parish was; I might have found a visit there refreshing. 🙂

Unfortunately, he could not name the parish. :hmmm:
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And there lies the problem…I doubt that story also…and you can’t call the person a liar and get anywhere of coarse.

I usually find myself blaming the poor priest (whomever he may or may not be)…saying…not all priests are perfect maybe you got a “bad priest” but I always suspect there was some position that wasn’t explained well…the other side of the story
 
I had an ex-Catholic fundie tell me that the nuns shushed her for laughing in church. That was 35 years ago and she’s still mad!
What an excuse! :rolleyes:
 
My MIL feels she has been excommunicated because she is divorced - she has not remarried. She feels that she is not welcome and doesn’t need to physically go to church to pray. I have been working on her to go to a returning Catholics session to no avail. Ugh.
 
Lillith said:
"I was excommunicated because I married outside the Church"
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Even today, many excommunications are automatic (Latin latae sententiae) upon committing one of the mortal sins specifically listed in canon law.

The last automatic excommunication for marrying outside the Church was lifted in 1977, so if you are talking to someone who married outside the Church before then, it is quite possible that they were indeed excommunicated.
 
Well…now. I did not know that! But since that was lifted in 1977…these folks can come back right? I mean, their excommunications were overturned also…might be something I could respond with.
 
Automatic excommunication is not something that’s officially enforced, and there are still a number of things that automatically excommunicate people. All that’s required to “overturn” an automatic excommunication is Confession.
 
I usually say something like, “I understand what you’re saying. I used to believe that too, but then I learned what the Church really teaches. I was pretty amazed once I learned the truth. If you’re interested, I would be happy to sit down with you to help you understand whatever it is that’s troubling you. You want to know the truth don’t you?”

After that the ball’s in their court. The thing is, these ex-catholics often feed on the fact that practicing Catholics are not very confrontational.
 
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Ghosty:
Automatic excommunication is not something that’s officially enforced, and there are still a number of things that automatically excommunicate people.
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I’m not sure what you mean by “officially enforced.” Canon law was officially enacted by the Pope, under the authority given to the Church by Jesus Christ. Are you suggesting that God doesn’t care what rules the Church enacts in His name?

I know some Catholics who think that the Mass obligation isn’t officially enforced anymore. However, just because some Catholics who don’t follow the rules doesn’t mean that those rules don’t exist.
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Ghosty:
All that’s required to “overturn” an automatic excommunication is Confession.
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I’m afraid this is completely untrue. For each sin resulting in excommunication, canon law specifies who can lift that excommunication. In some cases, e.g., desecration of the Holy Species, the ability to lift the excommunication is reserved to the Holy See. For other cases, the local Ordinary (i.e., the bishop) can lift it. The authority to lift specific excommunications can be delegated, but such delegation is not automatic.
 
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Lillith:
Well…now. I did not know that! But since that was lifted in 1977…these folks can come back right? I mean, their excommunications were overturned also…might be something I could respond with.
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Correct. When the various excommunications for marrying outside the Church were lifted, the effect was retroactive to those who had already incurred those excommunications.
 
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