T
TEPO
Guest
Well, most corporations at least share their company motto, mission and goals -which is more than Freemasonry does… Oh wait I forgot, “the end justifies the means”…
.Great motto.
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.Great motto.
T
TEPO
Guest
Wait, never mind… I found the mission and vision statements here.Well, most corporations at least share their company motto, mission and goals -which is more than Freemasonry does… Oh wait I forgot, “the end justifies the means”…
Great motto.
formermasons.org/who/mission.php
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
It’s fun to be funny, but if you want to put things into business terms, think about the Church as a business. It has a clear mission, which is to “feed Jesus’s sheep” and the goal, I presume, of helping the sheep pass through the “narrow” gate?Well, most corporations at least share their company motto, mission and goals -which is more than Freemasonry does… Oh wait I forgot, “the end justifies the means”…
Great motto.
But what is its success rate? Jesus says only a very few go down the narrow gate, while many take the wide path. That means that the Church’s success rate is prophesied by its Founder to be very small, certainly much less than 50%. What is the number, maybe 10%? 1%? 0.001%? If I remember correctly, St. Pio spoke on the low percentage. Whatever it is, how many businesses would last if they failed to deliver to the bulk of its customers.
But the difference is, here the actual results, in terms of meeting the goal to help a sheep cross over into the narrow pearly gates, people give their time, talent and treasure for their whole lives, but don’t actually get the results until after they are dead, at which time they can neither modify the results nor convey them to those still living – including the Church herself. So she doesn’t even have a way to discover her own success rate – need to get the MBA’s and marketers or whoever can help, to work on this one.
Isn’t that a rather odd business model?
Let’s take another look at the possibilities. Why don’t we make a “peace meter,” and the sheep can weigh in from time to time. Such things exist in various forms. So like you could have “stations of the heart.” Go to one station and speak the Lord’s Prayer into a microphone and it will record the stress it detects in your voice. Another station for examination of conscience. Put on a virtual reality hood, and the Ten Commandments and visual and audio stimuli take us through images selected by the Church, that will cause our eyes to do a quick microexpression when we feel shame, or anxiety. Calibrate with a few standard images; the cross, sacred heart, symbols of the Trinity, and one or two negative ones. Then it follows your eyes and isolates those things that caused you to react that might even be from a suppressed memory. You don’t notice it, but the machine does and gently plays a tone in your ears that allows you to stop and meditate on that sin. So you could actually graph the outward measurable evidence of spiritual fruit, and watch how it varies over time. Like does it spike up or down when your team wins or loses, respectively? Or where are you in a grieving cycle (suggesting what sort of therapy to offer if any)?
I’m an engineer. I’ve spent many years taking designs and processes and making them faster, better, and cheaper. I’d love nothing more than somebody to hire me and put me to good use for how I can use my particular talents for the Church, and make a good living like I used to before my disability. I could devote the rest of my life to it. I’d do it for free if my family and I didn’t have to eat. :yup:
Think it can’t be done? Watch this cool documentary with Morgan Freeman and see if you can’t think of some ways to use this technology for the good of the Church’s mission, rather than just wait and see its inevitable use for war … ok actually it’s already being used to zap soldiers into being smarter target finders so I guess we’d better get going to catch up to the evil forces who will use this.
Mysteries of the Subconscious.
We’re always afraid of new technology and focus on the bad things that can and like it or not inevitably will be done with it. Let’s see how science can help our cause, rather than fight battles among ourselves and scientists over such irrelevant issues as how old the Earth is?
Alan
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gamewell45
Guest
I would say not. each persons undisclosed beliefs are there own and as such do affect the lives of others regardless of goals. As an example; my personal beliefs do not impact on anyone other them myself because only I know what they are and do not impose them on others.
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gamewell45
Guest
I guess you haven’t been hanging around the same corporations that I have.Well, most corporations at least share their company motto, mission and goals -which is more than Freemasonry does… Oh wait I forgot, “the end justifies the means”…
Great motto.
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gamewell45
Guest
They make certain claims, but are the claims really valid? How do we really know that they are really former Freemasons? Anyone can claim anything they want in print or on visual media, but how do we really know if they are what they claim to be?? What is the litmus test?
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Sonic
Guest
Tepo,
Add this to your bookmarks for future topics on Masonry.
Book review of Masonry Unmasked by David Julian with rebuttal by John Salza:
scripturecatholic.com/MU.pdf
Scripture Catholic’s Freemasonry Webpage:
scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry.htm
Source Website: scripturecatholic.com/index.html
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TEPO
Guest
Honestly, I can’t imagine the Church as being like a business, I think of it as being more like a supernatural influence which is actually more or less contrary to the ideals a worldly business. But, I do think that our worldly lives are important too, and those who are talented enough to improve life here on this planet, should use those talents for the common good of those who reside here.It’s fun to be funny, but if you want to put things into business terms, think about the Church as a business. It has a clear mission, which is to “feed Jesus’s sheep” and the goal, I presume, of helping the sheep pass through the “narrow” gate?
But what is its success rate? Jesus says only a very few go down the narrow gate, while many take the wide path. That means that the Church’s success rate is prophesied by its Founder to be very small, certainly much less than 50%. What is the number, maybe 10%? 1%? 0.001%? If I remember correctly, St. Pio spoke on the low percentage. Whatever it is, how many businesses would last if they failed to deliver to the bulk of its customers.
But the difference is, here the actual results, in terms of meeting the goal to help a sheep cross over into the narrow pearly gates, people give their time, talent and treasure for their whole lives, but don’t actually get the results until after they are dead, at which time they can neither modify the results nor convey them to those still living – including the Church herself. So she doesn’t even have a way to discover her own success rate – need to get the MBA’s and marketers or whoever can help, to work on this one.
Isn’t that a rather odd business model?
Let’s take another look at the possibilities. Why don’t we make a “peace meter,” and the sheep can weigh in from time to time. Such things exist in various forms. So like you could have “stations of the heart.” Go to one station and speak the Lord’s Prayer into a microphone and it will record the stress it detects in your voice. Another station for examination of conscience. Put on a virtual reality hood, and the Ten Commandments and visual and audio stimuli take us through images selected by the Church, that will cause our eyes to do a quick microexpression when we feel shame, or anxiety. Calibrate with a few standard images; the cross, sacred heart, symbols of the Trinity, and one or two negative ones. Then it follows your eyes and isolates those things that caused you to react that might even be from a suppressed memory. You don’t notice it, but the machine does and gently plays a tone in your ears that allows you to stop and meditate on that sin. So you could actually graph the outward measurable evidence of spiritual fruit, and watch how it varies over time. Like does it spike up or down when your team wins or loses, respectively? Or where are you in a grieving cycle (suggesting what sort of therapy to offer if any)?
I’m an engineer. I’ve spent many years taking designs and processes and making them faster, better, and cheaper. I’d love nothing more than somebody to hire me and put me to good use for how I can use my particular talents for the Church, and make a good living like I used to before my disability. I could devote the rest of my life to it. I’d do it for free if my family and I didn’t have to eat. :yup:
Think it can’t be done? Watch this cool documentary with Morgan Freeman and see if you can’t think of some ways to use this technology for the good of the Church’s mission, rather than just wait and see its inevitable use for war … ok actually it’s already being used to zap soldiers into being smarter target finders so I guess we’d better get going to catch up to the evil forces who will use this.
Mysteries of the Subconscious.
We’re always afraid of new technology and focus on the bad things that can and like it or not inevitably will be done with it. Let’s see how science can help our cause, rather than fight battles among ourselves and scientists over such irrelevant issues as how old the Earth is?
Alan
…just as long as we aren’t keeping secrets from each other / hiding our motives, etc.
T
TEPO
Guest
What about the beliefs and goals of The Sovereign Grand Commander? Do his beliefs affect what others work towards? Does this work change the landscape, which indirectly influences the lives of people who do not share the same beliefs and goals of those who work to make the changes?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Fair enough. But if you had access to the technological examples I mentioned, do you think you might want to try them?
For example, what if you took a detailed examination of conscience, and read the whole thing with a monitor on your eye, and the machine would draw a map of or list the Ten Commandments, broken down into multiple topics each like a good examination of conscience, and show eye muscle activity that occurred at the reading of each section? If such a graph were available, would you look at it?
It’s just a matter of what functions we can automate, or provide automated assistance.
Most spiritual issues are similar to issues that engineers are able to handle. Biofeedback techniques have some wonderful promise, but they’re not taken seriously because they are “alternative medicine” and therefore not paid for by insurance, and churches don’t tend to support them because too often they get pegged as “new age” or something.
For example, I used to know a lady who, with her partner who had Ph.D. in some type of neural … something. Anyway, they put a cap on people that had 24 electrodes, and displayed a pattern on the computer screen. They would watch while they went through mental exercises, thinking about first this, then that. They could actually see, on the screen, what types of thoughts were activating which areas of the brain. That being done, the client can watch the screen and go through more mental exercises, and actually reduce anxiety levels – both in general and on the specific topics.
The success rate for customers who made a measurable improvement was quite high; which was a good thing because without insurance paying for it, customers want results.
If we can help a person lower his anxiety with technology, isn’t that doing God’s work? Jesus said, “do not worry about tomorrow,” and this helps with accomplishing that. Our faith tells us that once we are absolved, past sins are no longer. But people still obsess over them. So here we can help.
In Jesus’s day, the harvest was ready but the workers are few. I’ve decided I’m going to be a worker, and I invite others to see themselves likewise.
Alan
L
louisak
Guest
Galileo was never excommunicated. The judgement on him was technically called a censure. The worst material punishment he was subjected to was being placed under house arrest.
Furthermore, the reason he was condemned - contrary to what almost everyone believes - was not because he held that the Earth revolves around the Sun. The real problem was that he overstepped his bounds as a scientist and tried to set himself up as a theological and Biblical authority - pronouncing how certain Scriptural passages should be interpreted, and condemning those who differed with him.
The Catholic Church NEVER held it as revealed doctrine that the Sun revolves around the Earth. People who say this are ignorant.
There are a number of articles online which explains these issues, here is one:
catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/03/galileo-inquisition-fully-explained.html
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TEPO
Guest
The ten Commandments test, would that be to graph which sins you’ve committed more frequently, in order to p(name removed by moderator)oint a specific problem area? If so, I can’t imagine how a person doesn’t already know this, since he must already have felt guilt from committing that sin, and surely he remembers that guilt. But even then, I’d need to know the objective of why this research is taking place in the first place. Is the end goal to reduce stress or “guilt” of sin? If yes, then I’m not sure that eliminating guilt is all that good of an idea considering the fact that guilt is the only factor that the human mind or possibly soul uses to know the difference between right and wrong. Perhaps then the purpose is to explore the conscience -with it’s spiritual aspects along with its instinctual aspects… Here again, I’d need to know what benefits could come from this kind of exploration.Fair enough. But if you had access to the technological examples I mentioned, do you think you might want to try them?
For example, what if you took a detailed examination of conscience, and read the whole thing with a monitor on your eye, and the machine would draw a map of or list the Ten Commandments, broken down into multiple topics each like a good examination of conscience, and show eye muscle activity that occurred at the reading of each section? If such a graph were available, would you look at it?
It’s just a matter of what functions we can automate, or provide automated assistance.
Most spiritual issues are similar to issues that engineers are able to handle. Biofeedback techniques have some wonderful promise, but they’re not taken seriously because they are “alternative medicine” and therefore not paid for by insurance, and churches don’t tend to support them because too often they get pegged as “new age” or something.
For example, I used to know a lady who, with her partner who had Ph.D. in some type of neural … something. Anyway, they put a cap on people that had 24 electrodes, and displayed a pattern on the computer screen. They would watch while they went through mental exercises, thinking about first this, then that. They could actually see, on the screen, what types of thoughts were activating which areas of the brain. That being done, the client can watch the screen and go through more mental exercises, and actually reduce anxiety levels – both in general and on the specific topics.
The success rate for customers who made a measurable improvement was quite high; which was a good thing because without insurance paying for it, customers want results.
If we can help a person lower his anxiety with technology, isn’t that doing God’s work? Jesus said, “do not worry about tomorrow,” and this helps with accomplishing that. Our faith tells us that once we are absolved, past sins are no longer. But people still obsess over them. So here we can help.
In Jesus’s day, the harvest was ready but the workers are few. I’ve decided I’m going to be a worker, and I invite others to see themselves likewise.
Alan
T
TEPO
Guest
…or is the goal to, sort of “turn off” the effects of concupiscence…?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
More like take some of the subjective error out. Like just because we think one sin is a worse sin, we really may be more anxious over another. So really it’s a sort of lie detector concept. I have no expertise in these things other than videos of similar activities.
I mean if psychology got into it, they would flash photos in front of people and record whatever reaction will prove to be useful in test cases. They could even sort out repressed memories without the subject having to relive them as in regressive psychotherapy.
My main message is that we should be looking for ways not just to evangelize using new technology, and do administrative functions, but really get into the heart of the transformational aspects of our faith – the mechanics of how we get from here to there. Doctor of the Church kind of stuff. To me, the theology means nothing if it doesn’t change me to become better – doesn’t matter whose fault it is, we can analyze it and fix it. A bad spirit is like a dirty carburetor. Just needs cleaning and adjusting, most of the time. Now and then a little more work to fix it. So my idea is to look at the processes by which we lose old attitudes (old wineskins) and learn new ones (e.g. Beatitudes) and combine them with what we know about mysticism, and I can see a merging of the theologians and the mystics, and the scientists even, and there shall be great rejoicing!!! :extrahappy:
Mark my words. This generation will see these things come to pass. If we don’t do it, the Buddhists or somebody else might, and we couldn’t let them one-up us now, can we? Just imagine if the Buddhists set up a kiosk near every Catholic church, swipe your card and for $5.00 it will ask you to name a fear, measure your brain waves to see where that fear is processed, electrostimulate that side, and you’re out, seeds planted and cultivated, ready to bear fruit. Do 30 years of therapy in 47 seconds. And if they don’t do that, the Japanese of the Koreans or Singapore will We need to make sure the competition knows who is the real boss.
Alan
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gamewell45
Guest
I’m not sure who the Sovereign Grand Commander is, so for me it will be difficult to answer your question. Can you elaborate more on this?
T
TEPO
Guest
For the love of God Gamewell, you’re the Freemason -not me. just tell us what the position of Sovereign Grand Commander is… You’re our only hope at figuring this whole mystery out, besides -you post here as one of us – CHRISTIAN’s… You owe it to us to tell us what’s going on, for Gods sake! He surely will not hold it against you for sharing wit your brothers in Christ what goes on that we cannot see.
T
TEPO
Guest
So you’re contemplating a device that would equalize our interpretation of the depravity of sin? …and who would calibrate this device, God or man?More like take some of the subjective error out. Like just because we think one sin is a worse sin, we really may be more anxious over another. So really it’s a sort of lie detector concept. I have no expertise in these things other than videos of similar activities.
I mean if psychology got into it, they would flash photos in front of people and record whatever reaction will prove to be useful in test cases. They could even sort out repressed memories without the subject having to relive them as in regressive psychotherapy.
My main message is that we should be looking for ways not just to evangelize using new technology, and do administrative functions, but really get into the heart of the transformational aspects of our faith – the mechanics of how we get from here to there. Doctor of the Church kind of stuff. To me, the theology means nothing if it doesn’t change me to become better – doesn’t matter whose fault it is, we can analyze it and fix it. A bad spirit is like a dirty carburetor. Just needs cleaning and adjusting, most of the time. Now and then a little more work to fix it. So my idea is to look at the processes by which we lose old attitudes (old wineskins) and learn new ones (e.g. Beatitudes) and combine them with what we know about mysticism, and I can see a merging of the theologians and the mystics, and the scientists even, and there shall be great rejoicing!!! :extrahappy:
Mark my words. This generation will see these things come to pass. If we don’t do it, the Buddhists or somebody else might, and we couldn’t let them one-up us now, can we? Just imagine if the Buddhists set up a kiosk near every Catholic church, swipe your card and for $5.00 it will ask you to name a fear, measure your brain waves to see where that fear is processed, electrostimulate that side, and you’re out, seeds planted and cultivated, ready to bear fruit. Do 30 years of therapy in 47 seconds. And if they don’t do that, the Japanese of the Koreans or Singapore will We need to make sure the competition knows who is the real boss.
Alan
…I’m not understanding.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Certainly, since I don’t know if this device exists, I haven’t thought through all of several options I can brainstorm.
The device is not intended to determine sinfulness, only certain outward signs of emotions that show themselves in form of such phenomena as microexpressions and subtle eye movements.
Already scanners can watch eyes and type typewriters by the person looking at each key, target missles, and register reactions to advertisements – marketers do this stuff.
The reason I say self-calibrating is that there would be no particular profile that is “standard” because each person is different. We’re comparing responses over periods of time, so we’re looking at each person individually, without comparison to others. (Of course I’m making this up as I go.)
Why not also make it medical? Once a month we have nurses in the church meeting room take blood pressure after Mass. What better thing to do to symbolize and actually be a “station of the heart?” At our parish you give your name, and they have a card file with your history. The nurses volunteer their time, for 15 minutes after each Mass. It could be one station. So this would be like a mind-body-spirit experience, and I don’t mean some new-agey thing. I can see how all this can be done and not only be acceptable to, but a useful tool for the Church.
That’s me as an engineer, that’s what I do. I see a need and I want to fix something to eliminate the need, or even turn it into an advantage.
Put bluntly, satan will use every tool and technology this world produces, and he – as “prince of the world” – has a lot of sway over what gets invented. After all, inventors have to eat too, don’t they? And somebody with lots of money pays them. Follow the money, and does it lead to a Stairway to Heaven? Doesn’t it behoove us to start examining what good we can do, before they get ahead of us?? Heavenly warfare and all, ya know.
I’ve gone off enough on tangents; that should be enough to leave this post alone for a bit. Of course I’ll never know for sure if I’ll leave it alone until the 20 minute edit period expires.
I’m sorry if I’m all over the map. I’m trying to write in organized fashion but I’m still pretty excited. I had a wonderful day all day today and my words are tending toward extreme and divergent perhaps … or not.
Alan
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gamewell45
Guest
Honestly, there is no Sovereign Grand Commander in any Masonry that i’m involved with. You must be confusing Freemasonry with some off shoot perhaps?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Maybe he meant the Grand Poobah?
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