That Old Freemason Question...

  • Thread starter Thread starter 4givemeasinner
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
bobcrawford said:
In doing a lot of reading here the past few days, I would say that is the position of many who hang out here.

Does not change that from my reading, the Church appears to have much mis-information on the subject of masons and therefore has based its exclusion on wrong information.

I’m not going to change that opinion. Frankly the Democratic Party is more of a threat to our Church and Faith than masonry. That’s where I am focusing my attention.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Well, welcome to CAF Bob. I highly recommend you check some of the other forums out -there are a lot of better threads here than the one we’re currently on… This One’s too depressing for my taste. Enjoy, and – cheers! 🙂
 
bobcrawford said:
Does not change that from my reading, the Church appears to have much mis-information on the subject of masons and therefore has based its exclusion on wrong information.
Click to expand...
You say misinformation like it’s a “bad” thing. It’s a powerful tool often used to bridge logical gaps. 😉
I’m not going to change that opinion. Frankly the Democratic Party is more of a threat to our Church and Faith than masonry. That’s where I am focusing my attention.
Click to expand...
I was a duly elected conservative Republican, and I can say that both parties are a threat to our Church. Neither wants true freedom of religion. The Dems want freedom from religion so they want the state in charge of religion; Republicans want religion to dictate to the state, insofar as it’s an “approved” religion. You really can’t win by taking sides, except in a stealth way to undermine either side. Take your pick.

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
You say misinformation like it’s a “bad” thing. It’s a powerful tool often used to bridge logical gaps. 😉

I was a duly elected conservative Republican, and I can say that both parties are a threat to our Church. Neither wants true freedom of religion. The Dems want freedom from religion so they want the state in charge of religion; Republicans want religion to dictate to the state, insofar as it’s an “approved” religion. You really can’t win by taking sides, except in a stealth way to undermine either side. Take your pick.

Alan
Click to expand...
Yeah, for your analysis of political parties, I don’t think so. Not even in the ballpark.

Misinformation is never good when trying to achieve a greater moral purpose. Misinformation is nothing but a lie and I think it’s clear where God stands on truth and lies.
 
Lawful authority? :eek:

This term makes me think of when the Church and state were together. Brrrr!! :blackeye:

Alan
 
I guess my actual issue was that “lawful” makes me think of a “do it or else” mentality. So we’re motivated by fear and bribes – just like the government does, and just like the Church did before Jesus. I think that’s fine for a certain amount of early morality shaping, but we have to be careful we don’t make the Church our goal instead of our leader.

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I guess my actual issue was that “lawful” makes me think of a “do it or else” mentality. So we’re motivated by fear and bribes – just like the government does, and just like the Church did before Jesus. I think that’s fine for a certain amount of early morality shaping, but we have to be careful we don’t make the Church our goal instead of our leader.

Alan
Click to expand...
Yes, the Church is a path, not an end. Glory is our end.
 
bobcrawford said:
So then if I understand this correctly, Jews, Protestants and other cannot achieve salvation because they are outside the Church. Is that the official position of the Catholic Church? Not sure what “formally” and “informally” mean and are those references in the Magisterium?
Click to expand...
Firstly, anyone who is baptized using water, in the Trinitarian formula is a member of Christ’s body, that is, a member of His Church.

As far as Jews, to the degree that they reject Christ, based upon the knowledge that they have been given, is the degree that they cannot be saved. Or that they can.

Unless you believe that someone can reject Christ and be saved?
 
PRmerger said:
Firstly, anyone who is baptized using water, in the Trinitarian formula is a member of Christ’s body, that is, a member of His Church.

As far as Jews, to the degree that they reject Christ, based upon the knowledge that they have been given, is the degree that they cannot be saved. Or that they can.

Unless you believe that someone can reject Christ and be saved?
Click to expand...
I think there are enough Christians that are sufficiently not Christlike – by “sufficiently” I mean they have an explosive anger problem, vengeful or haughty attitude, etc. so that everybody notices this about them – that I can’t blame a person for not wanting to be around those types. Where are you going to find them? In a Church.

So I can’t blame a person for rejecting Christ, if all they know about Jesus are the way some Christians treat them. No loving person would treat them the way some do, much less a loving God. So we have a straw man Jesus, or as I like to say we put an ugly, scary mask on Him and show Him to our non-Christian fellow beings.

So you have to go beyond what’s popular and look at what it means to enter through the narrow gate. Abba Father and all, ya know. 😉

Alan
 
As always the mass provides the inspiration to answer most of the posts here:

Is 50:5-9a

The Lord GOD opens my ear that I may hear;
and I have not rebelled, have not turned back.
I gave my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who plucked my beard;
my face I did not shield
from buffets and spitting.

The Lord GOD is my help,
therefore I am not disgraced;
I have set my face like flint,
knowing that I shall not be put to shame.
He is near who upholds my right;
if anyone wishes to oppose me,
let us appear together.
Who disputes my right?
Let that man confront me.
See, the Lord GOD is my help;
who will prove me wrong?

Feel free to insult and condemn those that belong to Freemasony, only God knows what is in the hearts of the members.
 
Yes, I agree the Church forbids membership in the masonic fraternal organizations because supposedly the masons are trying to destroy the Catholic Church.

What I cannot understand is why the Church does not forbid membership in the Democratic Party for the same reason. The Democratic Party is more of a threat to the Church than the masons ever were.

Catholicvote showed that 47% of Catholics are going to vote for Obama, so it seems that 47% of the Catholics do not understand that the Obama Regime has taken away the Right of Conscience, is interfering with the freedom of religion, and supports the killing of children, yet the Church worries about the masons while giving the Democratic Party a pass. Go figure.

Seems to me the authority of the Church is contradictory and has lost its way as a balanced and objective voice on matters of faith.
 
bobcrawford said:
Yes, I agree the Church forbids membership in the masonic fraternal organizations because supposedly the masons are trying to destroy the Catholic Church.

What I cannot understand is why the Church does not forbid membership in the Democratic Party for the same reason. The Democratic Party is more of a threat to the Church than the masons ever were.

Catholicvote showed that 47% of Catholics are going to vote for Obama, so it seems that 47% of the Catholics do not understand that the Obama Regime has taken away the Right of Conscience, is interfering with the freedom of religion, and supports the killing of children, yet the Church worries about the masons while giving the Democratic Party a pass. Go figure.

Seems to me the authority of the Church is contradictory and has lost its way as a balanced and objective voice on matters of faith.
Click to expand...
That Democrats may be a threat to the Church is a subject that’s open to discussion.

That Masons are a threat to Catholicism is not.

Thus, the Church is being entirely consistent.

And even if she’s not, it doesn’t matter. The Church has spoken on this.
 
PRmerger said:
That Democrats may be a threat to the Church is a subject that’s open to discussion.

That Masons are a threat to Catholicism is not.

Thus, the Church is being entirely consistent.

And even if she’s not, it doesn’t matter. The Church has spoken on this.
Click to expand...
Correct, the Church has spoken on one threat, but not on the other. This will result in more attacks, and more rights of the Church being taken away.

The threat by the Democratic Party is not subjective, it is fact. The Church appears very weak.

Because of the weakness of the Church, the rights will be taken away little by little. It’s the old frog in the boiling water. Throw the frog into boiling water and it will jump out. Put the frog into water and turn up the heat gradually and the frog will be cooked and die.

Thus will this government turn up the heat gradually on the Church. Members will leave once the Church is a figment of its former self.

The Church does not understand the real threats and is misdirected on where it sees the threats. I had such hope in Dolan. Even he has been pacified and marginalized by our Socialist Government.
 
bobcrawford said:
Correct, the Church has spoken on one threat, but not on the other. This will result in more attacks, and more rights of the Church being taken away.

The threat by the Democratic Party is not subjective, it is fact. The Church appears very weak.

Because of the weakness of the Church, the rights will be taken away little by little. It’s the old frog in the boiling water. Throw the frog into boiling water and it will jump out. Put the frog into water and turn up the heat gradually and the frog will be cooked and die.

Thus will this government turn up the heat gradually on the Church. Members will leave once the Church is a figment of its former self.

The Church does not understand the real threats and is misdirected on where it sees the threats. I had such hope in Dolan. Even he has been pacified and marginalized by our Socialist Government.
Click to expand...
The Masonic threat is centennial and worldwide; the American political issues are USA-only and will be forgotten once there is a new president.

The Catholic Church has waited out the Roman empire, the Nazis, the anticlerical government in Mexico, and the Soviet Union. It has nothing to fear from American politics.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
The Masonic threat is centennial and worldwide; the American political issues are USA-only and will be forgotten once there is a new president.

The Catholic Church has waited out the Roman empire, the Nazis, the anticlerical government in Mexico, and the Soviet Union. It has nothing to fear from American politics.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
Yeah, keeping thinking there is nothing to fear. It’s that ignorance and denial that the Democratic Party and Obama count on.
 
bobcrawford said:
Correct, the Church has spoken on one threat, but not on the other.
Click to expand...
You are begging the question, bob.

That the Democratic party is a “threat” has not been established.

That’s YOUR opinion.

Not necessarily the Church’s.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top