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Ghosty
Guest
What makes you think there was any disobedience?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I find that its the converts who perpetuate the schism more than those who are cradle Orthodox. Especially those who convert from Catholicism, especially Roman Catholicism, they have to prove to themselves and others they made the right decision by maligning the Catholic faith.
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Mickey
Guest
Because it is not canonical. When such things occur, (usually in the Mideast due to extreme circumstances or situations), it is by the permission of the bishop on a case by case basis.
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Mickey
Guest
But we are not in schism. The Orthodox believe (from the monks on Mt Athos to the elederly babushka lady in Moscow), that the Holy Orthodox Church contains the fullness of truth.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
One could say the exact same thing about Catholics, from the monks of Solesmes to the simple country woman in rural Indiana.But we are not in schism. The Orthodox believe (from the monks on Mt Athos to the elederly babushka lady in Moscow), that the Holy Orthodox Church contains the fullness of truth.
I tend to agree with + Archbishop Elias Zoghby, Catholics and Orthodox together share the responsibility of the schism. Insofar as we persist in erecting barriers to full communion, we are all guilty of the sin of schism.
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Mickey
Guest
Yes. You could say that if you were so inclined.
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Mickey
Guest
Sadly, these are not invented barriers. They are very real…and I see no way that man can heal it…only God can.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
I completely agree that only God can heal such barriers.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
I merely mean to illustrate the point that, while the Orthodox claim to be the one true faith, so too do Catholics. I apologize if my method of doing so was rude.Yes. You could say that if you were so inclined.
Personally I would rather see an Orthodox and a Catholic trying to fully live out the universal vocation to love (of God and neighbor), than to see the two come to theological agreement in a less-than-charitable way. “Truth without charity is not truth, and charity without truth is not charity,” as St. Edith Stein said.
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Ghosty
Guest
You don’t know what this Bishop has allowed
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hazcompat
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Mickey
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No I don’t. I do not even know what country you are referring to. All I know is that it is not canonical…and a bishop must approve of such a thing.
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Mickey
Guest
Yes, I am aware of that.
You were not rude…I have never seen a rude post from you. Me, on the other hand…I am well aware that my dialogue style is harsh…so I ask you to please forgive this sinner.I apologize if my method of doing so was rude.
Indeed. There are many ways we can work together in love and charity without being in full communion. For me, abortion is arch enemy number one…and we have to stand together on the front lines to stop this genocide of our most precious voiceless martyrs.
Peace.
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Mickey
Guest
**A true sanctuary, even before the future life, is a heart free from thoughts, made active by the Spirit. For there all is said and done spiritually. **
St. Gregory of Sinai
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hazcompat
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.No one can master the intellect unless he himself is mastered by the Spirit.
St. Gregory of Sinai
The Philokalia Vol 4 P277
peace
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Aramis
Guest
Mickey, the Syrian Orthodox ARE in limited communion with the Syrian Catholic Church.
The Assyrians likewise with the Chaldeans, but are known to admit Catholics of all the Catholic Churches. Rome’s not said we can’t receive there, either. (In fact, last I saw, the ACotE was on the approved list.)
Both have treaties with their parallel churches in force, and Rome has not seen fit to order those treaties abrogated.
And the Armenian Orthodox seem to simply not care that the Armenian Catholics are in communion with Rome, continuing to allow concelebrations. Then again, the Armenian Orthodox also are noted for admitting EO, OO, RC and EC, to communion. Both AAOC and ACC share deacons back and forth pretty routinely when there are nearby parishes, as well as minor orders… and pastors have been known to fill in across that boundary as well.
It’s almost as if the Armenian Catholic Church are merely the portion of the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church that considers corporate union to be requisite for communion.
Indeed, “Refuse to participate in schism”… as corporate policy of several churches.
The Assyrians likewise with the Chaldeans, but are known to admit Catholics of all the Catholic Churches. Rome’s not said we can’t receive there, either. (In fact, last I saw, the ACotE was on the approved list.)
Both have treaties with their parallel churches in force, and Rome has not seen fit to order those treaties abrogated.
And the Armenian Orthodox seem to simply not care that the Armenian Catholics are in communion with Rome, continuing to allow concelebrations. Then again, the Armenian Orthodox also are noted for admitting EO, OO, RC and EC, to communion. Both AAOC and ACC share deacons back and forth pretty routinely when there are nearby parishes, as well as minor orders… and pastors have been known to fill in across that boundary as well.
It’s almost as if the Armenian Catholic Church are merely the portion of the Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church that considers corporate union to be requisite for communion.
Indeed, “Refuse to participate in schism”… as corporate policy of several churches.
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TarkanAttila
Guest
So, theoretically, if all of the bishops - by individual notice, or by ecumenical council - approved of Orthodox receiving the Eucharist at Catholic Liturgies… there’s nothing stopping that?
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Mickey
Guest
Limited communion? Can you show me canonical statements from the Syrian Orthodox Church which reflects this “limited communion?” Is it situational? Are there conditions?
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Mickey
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Not care? Is there some official statements about concelebrations? Or are these concelebrating priests being disobedient?
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OrthodoxJosh
Guest
Simply because an Orthodox Church is a “National Church” (the Church that the governement recognizes and sometimes backs) in no way means that they are not Orthodox Catholic. It just happens to be a situation that the particular Church is in, and does not ever change its Orthodoxy.
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