The ‘I’m Not Ready to Get Married’ Trap

[EasterJoy]

A number of people have brought up finance but the simple fact is that two people can always live together more cheaply than apart.

Expenses are a more valid concern where children are involved and that, of course, is a big part of marriage.

Divorces are very costly, though. There are families whose horrible financial situation can be traced back not to an illness, but to a divorce. It is bad enough when the divorce takes place by mutual consent because the parties attempted something they did not realize they were incapable of doing. What is worse is when one party unilaterally decides that the arrangement isn’t netting them enough gain, just abandons his or her vows, and makes use of civil law to extract the most material benefit out of the divorce possible.

I can totally understand why people object to the ease with which they can be unilaterally divorced. If the business world depended on “contracts” that ran like the ones legislatures have provided for married people, a lot of people would be doing without civil business contracts, too, and doing what they could manage without partners.

Christians, however, must hold on to an understanding of marriage that exceeds the low standard set by civil law and what society will tolerate. We know we answer to a power higher than a human legislature or court. We know that marriage is not a contract, but a sacred bond. We are duty-bound to act and talk so that our belief in this sure knowledge is never in doubt.

 

[Xantippe]

No, marriage isn’t for everyone because not everyone will be capable of earning enough to fund a private household and every kind of work shouldn’t be expected to. I’m totally on the “less marriage” train because there is absolutely nothing wrong with a calling to lifelong singleness, or single life in cloister. And I’m not even Catholic (although I wanted to become a nun and was ready to start the process before unexpectedly marrying).

Aside from that, some people are temperamentally unsuited for sharing spaces with other human persons or caring for other people.

There are a lot of stories of artist spouses and parents who were completely gripped by their art, and had very little to offer their wives, husbands or children. People of that type tend to think of their spouses and children as existing purely to serve them and their art. (See, for example, the story of Evelyn Waugh devouring his children’s rationed bananas.)

I think some people of that type can probably (under the best of circumstances) learn the forms of politeness and the basics of caring for children, but the “artist” type tends to leave a trail of interpersonal damage behind him if left in his or her natural form.

I’m most familiar with the artist version of this family story, but there are probably other obsessive types (scientists?) that do the same sort of damage to their spouses and children.

I expect a previous poster’s helicopter guy is one of those.

It is a heavy responsibility for parents who find that one of their children is this sort of accomplished, obsessive and rather selfish person.

 

[ThePCWife]

Aside from that, some people are temperamentally unsuited for sharing spaces with other human persons or caring for other people.

There are a lot of stories of artist spouses and parents who were completely gripped by their art, and had very little to offer their wives, husbands or children. People of that type tend to think of their spouses and children as existing purely to serve them and their art. (See, for example, the story of Evelyn Waugh devouring his children’s rationed bananas.)

I think some people of that type can probably (under the best of circumstances) learn the forms of politeness and the basics of caring for children, but the “artist” type tends to leave a trail of interpersonal damage behind him if left in his or her natural form.

I’m most familiar with the artist version of this family story, but there are probably other obsessive types (scientists?) that do the same sort of damage to their spouses and children.

I expect a previous poster’s helicopter guy is one of those.

It is a heavy responsibility for parents who find that one of their children is this sort of accomplished, obsessive and rather selfish person.

That’s also reasonable, some people are too weird for marriage and it doesn’t work out so great if they are under pressure to marry. On the other hand, we have Waugh’s six living children and an interesting checkmark in the Catholic convert box because he had the class status and means to support a family, not just himself and a wife.

 

[pianistclare]

Take selfishness out and most problems are solved.

If you don’t mind, what age did you get married? Now think back 10 or 15 years before that. Do you believe you were ready back then?

15 years before I got married the first time I was 13. Not considering marriage, and not a mail order bride.

The second time I married a man 10 years my junior.

What’s your point? I wasn’t talking about readiness.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

15 years before I got married the first time I was 13. Not considering marriage, and not a mail order bride.

The second time I married a man 10 years my junior.

What’s your point? I wasn’t talking about readiness.

Never mind then. I was getting at the idea most people continue to change and grow even in adulthood. That most are not ready in their early 20s in part because they are still working to lessen selfishness and learn what traits they need in a spouse.

 

[EasterJoy]

15 years before I got married the first time I was 13. Not considering marriage, and not a mail order bride.

The second time I married a man 10 years my junior.

What’s your point? I wasn’t talking about readiness.

Some small fraction of people seem born ready for marriage, most others aren’t ready until about the age people get married in their time (which is about 25 years old, these days), and another small fraction of others never develop the capacity to be someone that can be depended upon at all. The main thing is to avoid marrying that third kind, and I think this is what scares people these days. They don’t think they can tell that third kind from anyone else. An invalid attempt at marriage is not something you’d wish on your worst enemy, after all.

 

[Xantippe]

Some small fraction of people seem born ready for marriage, most others aren’t ready until about the age people get married in their time (which is about 25 years old, these days), and another small fraction of others never develop the capacity to be someone that can be depended upon at all. The main thing is to avoid marrying that third kind, and I think this is what scares people these days. They don’t think they can tell that third kind from anyone else. An invalid attempt at marriage is not something you’d wish on your worst enemy, after all.

Another consideration is that there are some kinds of mental illness that often surface in the early marriage years.

“Schizophrenia, major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder can develop in early adulthood. The onset of schizophrenia is typically in the late teens, early 20s. Men will usually develop schizophrenia between the ages of 18 and 25. Women tend to develop it about five years later. Bipolar disorder usually begins in early adulthood, although there are some children and adolescents who develop it.”

nbcdfw.com/news/health/The_Real_World__Recognizing_Mental_Illness_in_Young_Adults.html

 

[Xantippe]

It was suggested in this thread that there are single female physicians who would like a family. Nothing wrong with that, but the dirty secret that isn’t remarked on is that even today, most educated and working women who want to be married still want to marry someone who is at least equal to them or above them in status. Even today, despite all the advances of women in our society, much of a typical married woman’s status is still tied in her mind to the status of the man she married and feminism has clearly not overridden that trait. As a man whose occupation runs closer to blue collar than white, I’ve run into this often enough that I no longer spend time with women who have advanced degrees leading to advanced incomes (think doctors, lawyers, executives, etc.). I’m not afraid of their status, I can hang with them intellectually; it’s that they don’t want to be seen with mine. In other words, they’re usually not willing to marry down on job/income unless I can show significant status or potential of status in some other way that makes them look good to their circle. I’m not upset, it is what it is, cultures change over time but women have always looked to status since time immemorial and I knew that going in.

Along those lines, the educational system has been favoring women more and more at least since the 1970’s. As of 2008, there was a 43.6-56.4 split favoring women across all public universities in the US; this is worse in private institutions. How many women college grads will compromise if they can’t find a fellow college grad to marry? If the past is any indication, not enough of them will be willing to do so.

Here’s another issue.

Despite the greater number of women college graduates, college continues to be an important factor in achieving marriage.

"Among young adults who were born in the early 1980s, 34 percent were married at age 27, while 20 percent were unmarried and living with a partner (cohabiting) and 47 percent were single. On average, young adults with more education were more likely to be married and less likely to be cohabiting.

“At 27 years of age, 28 percent of high school dropouts were cohabiting and 27 percent were married. By comparison, 15 percent of college graduates were cohabiting and 37 percent were married.”

bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140328.htm

“…the rate of new marriages rebounded ever so slightly in 2012 after a post-recession decline. However, almost all of the growth (87 percent of it) occurred among bachelor’s degree holders.”

“For college graduates, the marriage rate has held more or less steady over the past decade. For the rest of America, it’s gradually eroding. Take 35-to-39-year-olds. In 2012, 81 percent of bachelor’s degree holders that age had tied the knot at some point, roughly the same as in 2000 (historical marriage rates in the Pew table below). Among everyone else, the figure was 73 percent, down 9 percentage points in 12 years.”

“It’s hard to talk about any important aspect of the economy today without talking about weddings. College graduates have pulled away from the rest of the country in part because they’ve made a habit of marrying each other and combining their high incomes (sociologists call this assortative mating; my colleague Matt O’Brien dubbed it the “When Harry Met Sally” explanation of income inequality).”

"http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ack-but-mostly-just-for-college-grads/283682/

I don’t have a gender breakdown close at hand (I’m sure we’d all like to know the percentages that are married for male versus female college graduates), but there seems to be a very strong relationship nowadays between college and marriage.

 

[Anglewannabe]

but the dirty secret that isn’t remarked on is that even today, most educated and working women who want to be married still want to marry someone who is at least equal to them or above them in status.

You are right about the dirty secret that women want a woman at their income level but you are **totally **wrong about it being tied to status.

I am 45 and have a degree in math. I was brought up in a generation where the message was ‘woman can’t do math’. If I am a woman and supposedly not able to do math, what excuse does a man who can do math have?

Not that I ever earned good money but… I worked really hard in the hopes that if ever I married, I could bring in good money so we could have a live in nanny. Most men I dated just wanted me to bring in good money so they could have more toys

Also, and perhaps I will get blasted for this but feel free to bring it on. A good woman knows the day she becomes a mom, her children are more important than her job and career will then take the back bench. If the woman’s main concern is the children, who is taking care of the bills???

There is NOTHING wrong with a woman making more money. But the man has to make equal contributions in other aspects and the reality is, very few men make 50% of the domestic contributions. When a baby is sick, they always calm down much quicker for mom than dad. It is just a reality. So, it is not always the man faults but to a woman it is a big consideration

Angie

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s another piece on the relationship between college and marriage in the contemporary US:

“About half of first marriages in the U.S. are likely to survive at least 20 years, according to government estimates. But for one demographic group, marriages last longer than most: College-educated women have an almost eight-in-ten chance of still being married after two decades.”

“Researchers at the National Center for Health Statistics estimate that 78% of college-educated women who married for the first time between 2006 and 2010 could expect their marriages to last at least 20 years. But among women who have a high school education or less, the share is only 40%.”

“College-educated adults are more likely to be married than less-educated adults. Among those who were ages 25 and older in 2014, 65% of those with a bachelor’s degree or more were married, compared with 53% of adults with less education, according to a Pew Research Center analysis.”

“While more-educated women have the highest chances for a long-term marriage, college-educated men also stand out. Roughly two-thirds (65%) of men with a bachelor’s degree could expect that, if they marry, their first marriage will last 20 years or longer, compared with 50% of men with a high school diploma or less. In addition, men with a higher level of education are more likely to get married in the first place when compared with less-educated men.”

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/04/education-and-marriage/

It may be unfair to clump together high school graduate + less than high school graduate, but all the indicators point to a college degree being very favorably associated with marrying and staying married. Also, some of the data is a prediction, rather than a record of what has already happened.

Apologies for the article dump, but I feel like it is important to nuance the 50% divorce myth that circulates so freely.

Also, it’s interesting that college conveys such a strong marriage advantage specifically to women.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Divorces are very costly, though…

That’s not surprising given that it involves the creation of two households from one. In the worst case for the husband, he ends up supporting the wife and children in a new, second, home without the joy of their presence.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Well, that is the problem, isn’t it–the outgoing ones are outgoing. That’s a bit of a tautology, isn’t it?

For comparison, consider the following:

–It’s not true that video gamers are on average anti-social hermits–the ones I meet socially are very outgoing!
–It’s not true that women are on average worse at math–the female mathematicians I meet are very good at math!
–It’s not true that Muslims are intolerant–the Muslims I meet at the college Christian-Muslim dialog group are very tolerant!

Yes, my experience is just that. But I tend to think most ‘MGTOWs’ probably don’t even label themselves as such and aren’t online kvetching. They’re pursuing whatever hobbies interests they have.

BTW, #1 we can rely on the studies showing gamers are on average significantly more outgoing then average.

But your argument equally holds against considering a specific reddit site as representative of a group. Kind of like trying to portray all feminists as being the same as the radical lesbian segment.

I can kind of relate to them in that, while I’m not anti-marriage despite a divorce (they see me as a romantic vice a realist), because I make a not insignificant income I encounter folks who are perplexed at my not being involved with someone. Almost seen as a duty that given my income I could easily support a second wife/family with an implication that I’m somehow not manning up. My kids have lived with me since the divorce. I’ve provided a secure stable home in a manner that Mom gets to visit them whenever she/they want since she only moved a couple of miles away, I’ve got my oldest daughter through 6 years of college debt free and on track to get my other two through college debt free as well. Yet the opinion of a lot of folks is that I’m falling short by not getting involved with someone else. That there are a lot good women out there that ‘deserve someone like you’ … They’re really perplexed that I’m not looking for someone given I did obtain a declaration of nullity for my first attempt at marriage.

So, the folks I know who I would describe as MGTOW are a bit different in that they’ll quite happily date with no intention of ever getting married. And some will date the same woman as long as she’s content with that. As a Catholic, I won’t date unless I’m willing to discern marriage as the path for the relationship. And marriage is compromise and occasionally sacrificing one’s desires for the good/interest of the other, a self-gift as I think Easter Joy put it. Which is where the MGTOWs just won’t.

I see ‘I’m not Ready To Get Married’ as sometimes code for ‘I Will Never Get Married’ since our generation has really messed up marriage for the next couple. It’s such a disposable institution that kind of circling back to your argument about tautology-- personal experience is the hardest thing to overcome. I failed to maintain an intact home for my kids. My and my ex’s actions in the process of breaking up have colored their views on men and women, relationships and marriage. Are men dependable? Are women? Can you put the kids first in a divorce, treat the ex politely? On top of that is their experience of seeing many friends in similar situations. No, the ex being able to come over every day is not the norm— but they have personal experience that it can happen. Can you stay single and focus on your kids? No, not the norm but it can happen.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I see ‘I’m not Ready To Get Married’ as sometimes code for ‘I Will Never Get Married’ since our generation has really messed up marriage for the next couple. It’s such a disposable institution that kind of circling back to your argument about tautology-- personal experience is the hardest thing to overcome. I failed to maintain an intact home for my kids. My and my ex’s actions in the process of breaking up have colored their views on men and women, relationships and marriage. Are men dependable? Are women? Can you put the kids first in a divorce, treat the ex politely? On top of that is their experience of seeing many friends in similar situations. No, the ex being able to come over every day is not the norm— but they have personal experience that it can happen. Can you stay single and focus on your kids? No, not the norm but it can happen.

This is gold, right here. While there are very few readers of men’s blogs, there is no denying that by now most men have encountered broken marriages, whether their own or that of their fathers, brothers and friends. raises and waves hand Of course that is going to color their viewpoints regarding their own readiness to marry. To be blunt, when they see men they respected and admired fail their own marriages, sometimes by their own hands, but more often by the wife’s hand, either way, it’s going to mess with their heads, no two ways about it. I know it messed with mine. I got over that by returning to the Church and gaining a better understanding of women. I still like women, I’d still like to be married, I’m just more realistic about them and about my prospects.

 

[styrgwillidar]

This is gold, right here. While there are very few readers of men’s blogs, there is no denying that by now most men have encountered broken marriages, whether their own or that of their fathers, brothers and friends. raises and waves hand Of course that is going to color their viewpoints regarding their own readiness to marry. To be blunt, when they see men they respected and admired fail their own marriages, sometimes by their own hands, but more often by the wife’s hand, either way, it’s going to mess with their heads, no two ways about it. I know it messed with mine. I got over that by returning to the Church and gaining a better understanding of women. I still like women, I’d still like to be married, I’m just more realistic about them and about my prospects.

It works both ways. If Dad cheated on mom, or was dismissive/abusive-- that’s a daughter’s primary experience of men. That is very hard to overcome, as much as intellectually she may understand ‘not all men are like that’, personal experience becomes an obstacle to truly believing/accepting it. ETA: I can understand the hesitance in- not ready to be married and risk going through what mom went through.

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s not surprising given that it involves the creation of two households from one. In the worst case for the husband, he ends up supporting the wife and children in a new, second, home without the joy of their presence.

On top of that, the average contested divorce costs $15-30K. Financial losses are incurred by actions such as selling real estate in order to split up assets. The couple is no longer married filing jointly; the whole tax situation can get complicated. You’re usually going to lose multi-driver discounts on car insurance; both parental policies probably need to include children who are drivers. Both spouses will usually take a financial hit, which can make both wary about and bitter towards the other, complicating parenting.

Unmarried people don’t need to be exposed to many divorces between their friends to become wary of taking the jump, since they were often too young themselves at the time of the wedding to have seen the red flags that older relatives might have seen but bitten their tongues about. I have seen this more than once–that is, Mom and Dad privately expressed serious concerns about the prospects of the marriage of a child, but the siblings and cousins didn’t necessarily see it. (These are parents with strong marriages whose children divorced…)

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

On top of that, the average contested divorce costs $15-30K. Financial losses are incurred by actions such as selling real estate in order to split up assets. The couple is no longer married filing jointly; the whole tax situation can get complicated. You’re usually going to lose multi-driver discounts on car insurance; both parental policies probably need to include children who are drivers. Both spouses will usually take a financial hit, which can make both wary about and bitter towards the other, complicating parenting.

Funny how people never worry about not being ready for divorce. A friend of mine went through it a few years ago. I kept trying to talk him out of it but he was so convinced it would solve all of his problems. It didn’t, of course.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

And

1. They’ve been told they cannot marry until they have finished their education, paid off all or most of any student loans, saved money for 6 months expenses, have become well established in a career, have dated for more than a year or two, have started investing in retirement and in a savings for a future mortgage, have saved for the rings, and can pay for a wedding and reception.

If I’d have waited until I was ready by today’s standards, I’d still be single and childless at 40.

I am on a few Catholic Dating sites. From reading the posts in the forums on one of those sites and some of the profiles I have read, I got the impression that a good number of women on that site (not the majority though) would never settle for anything less than a man who makes great money, already has their future children’s college fund started, must absolutely have the money to send their children to Catholic school, already own a house and of course have plenty of play money left over for traveling. They seem to look at things like money is 100% the most important thing to getting married. Though they will never admit that. I worked my way up from sometimes not having a dime to my name to a decent savings and a decent career and I get the impression that these women would think “Still not good enough”. I want to be working my way towards marriage so much but I have nobody willing to do the same with me.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, my experience is just that. But I tend to think most ‘MGTOWs’ probably don’t even label themselves as such and aren’t online kvetching. They’re pursuing whatever hobbies interests they have.

BTW, #1 we can rely on the studies showing gamers are on average significantly more outgoing then average.

But your argument equally holds against considering a specific reddit site as representative of a group. Kind of like trying to portray all feminists as being the same as the radical lesbian segment.

I can kind of relate to them in that, while I’m not anti-marriage despite a divorce (they see me as a romantic vice a realist), because I make a not insignificant income I encounter folks who are perplexed at my not being involved with someone. Almost seen as a duty that given my income I could easily support a second wife/family with an implication that I’m somehow not manning up. My kids have lived with me since the divorce. I’ve provided a secure stable home in a manner that Mom gets to visit them whenever she/they want since she only moved a couple of miles away, I’ve got my oldest daughter through 6 years of college debt free and on track to get my other two through college debt free as well. Yet the opinion of a lot of folks is that I’m falling short by not getting involved with someone else. That there are a lot good women out there that ‘deserve someone like you’ … They’re really perplexed that I’m not looking for someone given I did obtain a declaration of nullity for my first attempt at marriage.

So, the folks I know who I would describe as MGTOW are a bit different in that they’ll quite happily date with no intention of ever getting married. And some will date the same woman as long as she’s content with that. As a Catholic, I won’t date unless I’m willing to discern marriage as the path for the relationship. And marriage is compromise and occasionally sacrificing one’s desires for the good/interest of the other, a self-gift as I think Easter Joy put it. Which is where the MGTOWs just won’t.

I see ‘I’m not Ready To Get Married’ as sometimes code for ‘I Will Never Get Married’ since our generation has really messed up marriage for the next couple. It’s such a disposable institution that kind of circling back to your argument about tautology-- personal experience is the hardest thing to overcome. I failed to maintain an intact home for my kids. My and my ex’s actions in the process of breaking up have colored their views on men and women, relationships and marriage. Are men dependable? Are women? Can you put the kids first in a divorce, treat the ex politely? On top of that is their experience of seeing many friends in similar situations. No, the ex being able to come over every day is not the norm— but they have personal experience that it can happen. Can you stay single and focus on your kids? No, not the norm but it can happen.

I saw something today that is kinda relevant, kinda funny, kinda sad.

You know those family decals that people stick on cars with a different cartoon decal for each member of the family? I saw one today on a pickup that had dad (?) in a hardhat (?), a blank space, a kid decal, and then a pet decal. There was an arrow pointing to the blank space and labeled “position open.”

(I am not totally sure about the items with question marks as I was driving at the time, but I’m 90% sure it was a dad in a hardhat.)

 

[Xantippe]

This is gold, right here. While there are very few readers of men’s blogs, there is no denying that by now most men have encountered broken marriages, whether their own or that of their fathers, brothers and friends. raises and waves hand Of course that is going to color their viewpoints regarding their own readiness to marry. To be blunt, when they see men they respected and admired fail their own marriages, sometimes by their own hands, but more often by the wife’s hand, either way, it’s going to mess with their heads, no two ways about it. I know it messed with mine. I got over that by returning to the Church and gaining a better understanding of women. I still like women, I’d still like to be married, I’m just more realistic about them and about my prospects.

If it’s your male friend and you mostly talk to him, it’s very unlikely you’re going to have a good sense of what his wife’s gripes might be, how serious they are, how long she’s put up with it, and what she’s done about it. Ditto your family if you’re not your mom’s confidant or your SIL’s confidant.

I was talking to a friend today (a friend in a very non-divorcey demographic). Her husband, a sweet, smart guy and good dad, finished a major academic program some years ago. They have school age children and spent quite a number of years as a graduate family living on a single small fellowship and family handouts (she wasn’t able to work for most of that time because of immigration restrictions on spouses of foreign students) and then on a couple of small jobs in his field. The plan was that he would do a “real” job hunt before their oldest hit high school. As I learned today, he delayed the real job hunt a couple years, then when he finally did something about it, applied only to a single employer that he had very little to no chance of landing a job with. (The academic standard is to apply for every single job that is at all close to your qualifications and pray hard.) His wife only recently found out about the one-application job hunt. She has found a part-time job that she can do during school hours, but as their oldest is now in high school, it has been many, many years of scraping by on nothing–and both my friend and her husband are in their early 40s now and thanks to immigration stuff, she has virtually no work history in the US.

Up until today, I had no idea how badly he had botched his job hunt.

If somebody like that divorced her husband (which I think is very unlikely, for cultural reasons in this case) it would seem to an outsider like it came out of nowhere, but it really wouldn’t be coming out of nowhere.

The more I hear, the less I believe in the prevalence of divorces that “just come out of the blue.”

 

[EasterJoy]

You are right about the dirty secret that women want a woman at their income level but you are **totally **wrong about it being tied to status.

I am 45 and have a degree in math. I was brought up in a generation where the message was ‘woman can’t do math’. If I am a woman and supposedly not able to do math, what excuse does a man who can do math have?

Not that I ever earned good money but… I worked really hard in the hopes that if ever I married, I could bring in good money so we could have a live in nanny. Most men I dated just wanted me to bring in good money so they could have more toys

Also, and perhaps I will get blasted for this but feel free to bring it on. A good woman knows the day she becomes a mom, her children are more important than her job and career will then take the back bench. If the woman’s main concern is the children, who is taking care of the bills???

There is NOTHING wrong with a woman making more money. But the man has to make equal contributions in other aspects and the reality is, very few men make 50% of the domestic contributions. When a baby is sick, they always calm down much quicker for mom than dad. It is just a reality. So, it is not always the man faults but to a woman it is a big consideration

Angie

I’d say that no matter how much you make, most men are more comfortable if they’re making more. It isn’t just that women want a man who makes as much or more than they do because they want his salary. Women also want to be able to succeed at their careers without feeling their husband feels they’ve “shown him up.” There is an ego issue there.

I have also had men tell me bluntly they couldn’t handle dating a woman they thought was a lot smarter than they were. Some think it is the greatest thing ever, but the truth is that the guys that think like that are very bright themselves. If you think you compare very well to the average guy, it concerns you a lot less that you also snagged a really smart woman (which is also a woman that the guys who aren’t as smart as you couldn’t cope with).

Back when roles were more strictly defined, these problems didn’t come up so much. There wasn’t the appreciation that there is now about how much waste came from artificially confining people to certain roles that didn’t necessarily suit them, but those artificial roles made more couples “compatible.” Maybe not as compatible with life itself, but more compatible with more different members of the opposite sex, because of the confinement of roles. Without those boxes confining people, the accommodations that spouses need to make for each other require more actual charity.