The ‘Us and Them’ Religion

  • Thread starter Thread starter worldcitizen
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

worldcitizen

Guest
Hi everyone,

I wish to speak about this ‘us and them’ mentality, attitude or what has developed into an almost religion over the centuries as I believe it’s man made and is a major obstacle to peace.

Are we living true religion today or have we subconsciously replaced it with an ‘us and them’ religion?

The purpose of God in creating man as far as I understand it is to be like Him, that is to love all and welcome all as our brothers and sisters. Somehow, as different religions appeared in the world, we began forming into opposing camps and became estranged from one another seeing ourselves as the chosen or the saved and others as either damned or as infidels. (Depending on which religion one follows)

But the Scriptures say we were all created in the image of God and that God loves us all unconditionally. So why have we developed this ‘otherness’ or ‘us and them’ attitude in this world which sets us at odds with our fellow human being?

Shouldn’t we too, like our maker, love all unconditionally or try and transform ourselves to better reflect that unconditional love?

I believe this spirit of exclusiveness that is taught within many religions comes from competitive society values and not scripture and interferes with the spirit of fellowship and universal love God has tried to teach us.

I think we can all keep our different beliefs without having an ‘us and them’ concept of the world. What do you think? All religions seem to have this problem.

Do we really have to keep aloof from one another? Why can’t we pray in each other’s churches? God is as much in a Synagogue or a Church or Pagoda or Mosque. I’ve prayed in all these places of worship and met so many beautiful souls and my life is richer and much more meaningful experiencing the different traditions and cultures.

Apart from politics there is really no valid reason we as religious people cannot all come together. Politics encourages division and and estrangement but God is Universal.

In Jesus day He said ‘love thy neighbor’ but that statement translated into todays global village couldnt it read instead ‘love all humanity as one family’?

Hasn’t the time finally arrived for the ‘wolf and the lamb’ to live in peace? I believe so. But I don’t think it will happen without us making the effort.
 
Last edited:
Jesus constantly spoke of the sheep vs. the goats, the faithful vs. the unfaithful.

“All religions lead to God” is a lie invented by the devil to keep people from seeking the truth.
 
I think the important thing here is love. That we love all regardless of their colour, nationality gender or religion. God created all humankind and so my understanding is we are all His children and He loves us all and wants us to be loving to all just as He is.
 
To love is to will the good of another. To efficaciously will the good, one must know the good.

Moreover, even more fundamental than the commandment to love one’s neighbor, is the command to love God, since this is the ultimate ground of charity. Left to their own devices, people will fall into all sorts of errors concerning God and morality, and may even replace the worship of God with the worship of created things.

Wisely then, did Christ establish the Catholic Church, which both provides people with sure knowledge of religious and moral truth, and provides sacramental grace which aids them in doing right. Given this, to authentically love those of other religions, one must wish for them to come to know the truth and to join the Catholic Church.
 
While I can understand what you are trying to say, and I agree there should not be a negative ‘us and them’ mentality, religions are not the same. An ardent follower of his religion would not say that there are many routes to the top of the mountain and it is ok as long as we reach the top. Or there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak.

The ‘we’ often means people of the same belief, practices and objectives.

I guess it is the different religious approaches of each religion that results in the ‘us and them’ mentality.

In Christianity, it does not mean we hate them but rather to love and honor them. Sure, some religions are more exclusive and do not take that attitude and that can give rise to their exclusiveness and non-acceptance of other people.

But the proverbial lion and the lamb to be together does not happen now according to the Bible but when the world be sorted out in the new heaven and the new earth.

God bless.
 
I think they’re tied together and we can’t really love God unless we love our fellow human.

1 John 4:20, KJV: “If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”

Jesus said ‘Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God’.

Purity of heart is thus the condition set by Jesus to be able to see God. This can be anyone in the world of any religion or disposition. As long as the heart is pure He said it will see God.
 
Let me bring into the discussion what the most relevant synodical text says. In Nostra aetate (Declaration on the Relation of the Church with Non-Christian Religions) we read that,
  1. […] other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.
 
That is wonderful! Where can I obtain a copy of that document online?

This is an example of true love and tolerance to all humanity that I hope all other religions will emulate. We don’t need to agree on everything but we do need to be tolerant towards one another.
 
I was part of an ecumenical community at university and it was a very positive experience. To be honest I have found the reluctance of Catholics in the wider worlds reluctance to come together with other Christians pretty disappointing. It’s a secular world these days and we need each other.
 
There are similar references in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. See, for example,
  1. The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life”.
(http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm)
 
Reading that I feel that you welcome me with open arms and that it is the truth and all who follow it are rightly guided. I see within that document, the Holy Spirit at work bringing us all together.

I’m lost for words.
 
Hi Lucy,

My humble understanding is that we are pointed towards this path of love and unity but then it is up to each one of us to walk it.

Jesus extended his love and compassion to all, high and low, rich and poor as an example for us how we must act towards all humanity showing the utmost love to all who cross our path no matter who they are or what the believe.
 
worldcitizen said:
…
Click to expand...
Q. Are we living true religion today or have we subconsciously replaced it with an ‘us and them’ religion?
A. All religions have some truth and we fall short of living perfect lives. No subconscious replacement.

Q. Is the purpose of God in creating man to be like Him?
A. Baltimore Catechism answer 6: “God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven.” Catechism of the Catholic Church
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36
[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Q. Why have we developed this ‘otherness’ or ‘us and them’ attitude in this world which sets us at odds with our fellow human being?
A. Sirach 3:26 “A stubborn heart will fare badly in the end; those who love danger will perish in it.”

Q. Do we really have to keep aloof from one another?
A. There has to be some division that we avoid the near occassions of sin.

Q. Should we, like our maker, love all unconditionally or try and transform ourselves to better reflect that unconditional love?
A. God gives us the gift of grace, which we can refuse, so salvation is not unconditional. We should always act with charity.

Q. Does a spirit of exclusiveness come from scripture?
A. It exists in some form in scripture, and which comes from oral tradition. However the plan of salvation is for all mankind.

Q. Can we all keep our different beliefs without having an ‘us and them’ concept of the world?
A. 2 Tim 3:12 “And all that will live godly in Christ Jesus, shall suffer persecution.”

Q. Why can’t we pray in each other’s churches? …
A. Religious indifference is an incorrect idea although ecumenism is good so there can be some ecumenical activities, but they do not replace the Eucharist. The Catholic Church has the fullness of faith and we were directed to teach:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Matt 28:19-20
Click to expand...
Q. In Jesus day He said ‘love thy neighbor’ but that statement translated into todays global village couldnt it read instead ‘love all humanity as one family’?
A. Yes, charity is the rule.

Q. Hasn’t the time finally arrived for the ‘wolf and the lamb’ to live in peace?
A. No, that occurs at the Last Judgement. Isaiah 11:6, 65:25. Jesus said we have a moral battle, Matt 10:
34 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I completely agree with you. Judaism does not believe that everyone has to be or become Jewish to follow G-d’s commands. However, we face a formidable obstacle in achieving the noble goal of loving and caring for all people, namely, our psychological make-up, which seems, in part, to be based on a motivational need to distinguish ourselves from others so as to achieve a sense of personal and cultural identity, as well as, in some cases, a sense of superiority. The “us and them” attitude or mentality enables people to set themselves apart from others, to be individuals rather than just a face in the crowd, to think of themselves as special or, at least, different. This seems to be part of our very nature, and religion is not the only way in which we differentiate ourselves.
 
Last edited:
Since it is recognized that it is extremely rare to find men entirely devoid of the religious sense, some people entertain the hope that nations […] in spite of their differing religious viewpoints, may be brought to unite as brothers in the profession of certain doctrines as a common foundation of the spiritual life. […] Certainly efforts such as these cannot receive the approbation of Catholics, for they rest on that false opinion which holds any opinion whatever to be more-or-less praiseworthy and good. […] Those who hold this opinion are not only in gross error, they even debase the concept of true religion and, little by little, lapse into Naturalism and Atheism. […] He who refuses to have the Church for his Mother will not have God for his Father. When St. Augustine speaks of man’s last end, he hastens to add this counsel to any one who wishes to reach that end: “Their attempt will be useless if they do not submit to the Catholic Church, and humbly obey her, for she alone has been divinely instituted to give light and strength to souls, without which they will necessarily stray from the right path.” Would to God they had listened to the voice of Augustine in the past! And would to God that everyone might hear him today who rends the seamless robe of Christ. and casts himself miserably outside the path of salvation.
-Pope Pius XI

Is it permitted for Christians to be present at, or to take part in, conventions, gatherings, meetings, or societies of non-Catholics which aim to associate together under a single agreement everyone who, in any way, lays claim to the name of Christian? In the negative! […] It is clear, therefore, why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics. There is only one way in which the unity of Christians may be fostered, and that is by furthering the return to the one true Church of Christ for those who are separated from her.
-Pope Pius XI

14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
2 Corinthians 6:14-15

It is an illusion to seek the company of sinners on the pretence of reforming them or of converting them; it is far more to be feared that they will spread their poison to us.
-St. Gregory Nazianzen

I grieve for having been, if only for an hour, in communion with guilty men.
-St. Martin of Tours

To know whom to avoid is a great means of saving our souls. […] Thus, the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith by corrupting it, such as heretics, or by renouncing it, such as apostates.
-St. Thomas Aquinas
 
Last edited:
worldcitizen said:
So why have we developed this ‘otherness’ or ‘us and them’ attitude in this world which sets us at odds with our fellow human being?
Click to expand...
We should not avoid non Christians because they are ‘dammed’. If we separate ourselves in that manner, how the heck would we evangelize? There’s nothing wrong with being friends with those of the other faith. And we should be friends with them. Christians who discriminate faiths and act that they are better often display the sin of pride, anyways.

But all religions are not equal because that reasoning is not logical. If Christianity is true, that means Hinduism/Islam/etc isn’t. And if Christianity is true, we have a duty to bring as much people as possible to know the love of Christ. No forcing it down their throats or bullying obviously. We have to love them and build relationships with them for it to even happen in the first place
 
We are also called to do good works, sometimes good works are done through a Catholic organisation and sometimes not. Likewise we are called to support each other with faith and I have many very supportive non-Catholics in my life.

We could be missing out on so much if we only do these things with other Catholics.
 
Saints Peter and Paul, in their Epistles, have loathed heretics, and warned us to avoid them.
-St. Cyprian

St. Paul commands that a heretic be avoided after two warnings, that is, after showing himself to be manifestly obstinate. And this is what St. Jerome writes, adding that other sinners are excluded from the Church by excommunication, whereas heretics exile themselves on their own from the Body of Christ.
-St. Robert Bellarmine

I have always regarded the Church’s enemies as my own.
-St. Jerome

When our friends fall into very great wickedness, and become incurable, we ought no longer to show them friendliness. It is for this reason that both divine and human laws command such sinners to be put to death, because there is a greater likelihood of their harming others than of their mending their ways.
-St. Thomas Aquinas

If any man shall be friendly to those with whom the Roman Pontiff is not in communion, he is in complicity with those who want to destroy the Church of God; and, although he may seem to be with us in body, he is against us in mind and spirit, and is a much more dangerous enemy than those who are outside and are our avowed foes.
-Pope St. Clement I

I pray God that some of us, as high as we seem to sit treading heretics under our feet like ants, that we live not to see the day we would gladly wish to be at league and composed with them, to let them have their churches quietly to themselves so that they would be content to let us have our quietly to ourselves. […] Upon conditions that all heresies were suppressed, I would wish that all my books were burned up and all my labour utterly lost.
-St. Thomas More
 
Most of these people aren’t heretics, they’re people who the Catholic Church hasn’t been able to reach.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top