The 10 commandments ... are different?

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Florida_mom

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I just discovered this when preparing information for my Sunday school class.

To be sure that what I pull off of the internet is consistent with church teachings when looking for activities, I googled “Catholic 10 commandments”.

Well, I got them:

I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Now–I’ve homeschooled my now 3rd grade daughter all her life. We’ve used our Catholic resources when teaching the commandments.

I honestly never knew there was a different list.

And there is (in the main google search) that accuses Catholics of deleting a commandment: The one about worshipping false idols.

It has a most disturbing quote:
Even their own perverted Bibles have something that approximates the commandment to not make images, but since their leaders tell them they are too spiritually dumb to understand the Bible, they don’t read it (or read it with muddy eyeballs). And so, the wicked deceitfully change the ten commandments and PUT THEM IN A BOOK SOMEWHERE OR POST THEM ON A WALL AND TELL THE PEOPLE TO MEMORIZE THEM. Of course people are going to trust their almighty priests to tell them the truth (bad move).
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In any case, can someone explain what happened and where we are all lost in translation.

In speaking of “idols” to the students in regards to whether a crucifix or a picture of Christ or a picture of Mary are considered idols, I brought up about family photos and how we have them to remind us of things. We don’t worship them and think it is the real thing, it is a reminder for us.

So why are protestants so vehemently ugly when:
  1. Misstating our method of worship and that the crucifix and everything else are false idols.
  2. They claim “WE” deleted a commandment and then used our perverted Bible to create more commandments.
Another quote from the site (I didn’t post it as I dont know if I can)
Did you see it?
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The Catholic religion deletes the second commandment and makes the 10th commandment into two. If you follow them all the way down from the second commandment you’ll see the Catholic religion is always one ahead of the King James. Finally at the tenth commandment they break it into two and make it the 9th and 10th commandments. What deception! What deceit! What guile! I tell no lies here–just get out the Bible and compare. They even corrupt their own Bible by deleting the 2nd commandment!
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You see the reason the Catholic religion killed people with Bibles is 'cause their deception is just too easy to see in light of God’s word. Just a little more mumbo-jumbo gumbo for your consideration
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I was in a Christian Homeschooling group once where a mom in a Bible Study actually asked me if we believe in Jesus. I thought I explained it well, but I don’t know how to explain this difference in the commandments if it ever came up in conversation.

Why the difference and why the accusation that we perveted them?
 
The Commandments weren’t numbered when Moses got them. The numbers do not matter. The content is the same.
 
Do Catholics Worship Statues?
The True Ten Commandments

As for why some people grow so vehement…There are just not-nice people in the world and some Christian circles have unfortunately resorted to bashing and hating Catholics. When someone’s arguments aren’t strong enough and they aren’t getting enough attention, they resort to name-calling. Simple. In the end, it reflects poorly on them, though.

I hope that helps.
 
FANTASTIC!

Thank you so much! I am happy to have finally followed the Holy Spirit to Catholic Radio and finding Catholic answers in this website.

I havent learned to search the site yet and quite honestly, I do better learning in a discussion as it is difficult for me to dig for answers (though I will learn so as not to be a nuisance here).

This is all quite helpful!
 
The first commandment obviously includes a prohibition on worshiping idols (or anything else). What I find odd is the Protestant combining of coveting one’s property and coveting one’s spouse, when they are clearly very different matters. After all, God has not ordained a sacrament that unites a person to their property until death do them part. 😉
 
Florida_mom said:
FANTASTIC!

Thank you so much! I am happy to have finally followed the Holy Spirit to Catholic Radio and finding Catholic answers in this website.

I haven’t learned to search the site yet and quite honestly, I do better learning in a discussion as it is difficult for me to dig for answers (though I will learn so as not to be a nuisance here).

This is all quite helpful!
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It’s not a problem. You’ll find that all of us learn from doing the research to answer things.

As for the search system…

Several options: Search will give you some good stuff. But one of my personal favorites is up in the Ask an Apologist forum, where the Search this Forum function is a HUGE help.

All of it works and all of it is here for the service of the Body of Christ, so don’t hesitate.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Basically Catholics settled on St. Augustine’s view of the Decalogue and Protestants settled on Origen’s view. It looks to me like Protestants did so only to be different (consistent with a “protesting” state of mind) knowing that some of Origen’s teachings were later declared heretical by The Catholic Church.

Basically the Jews themselves recorded them differently in the OT. The person who was outraged at Catholics is very ignorant of the bible - which he got from us Catholics to start with.

From New Advent:
Decalogue - Ten Commandments:
The term “Decalogue”] is employed to designate the collection of precepts written on two tables of stone and given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai. The injunctions and prohibitions of which it is composed are set forth in Exodus (20:1-17) and in Deuteronomy (5:6-21). The differences discernible in the style of enumerating them in Exodus as contrasted with Deuteronomy are not essential and pertain rather to the reasons alleged for the precepts in either instance than to the precepts themselves. **The division and ordering of the commandments in use in the Catholic Church is that adopted by St. Augustine **(Quæstiones in Exodum, q. 71). That which is commonly in vogue amongst Protestants seems to have Origen for its sponsor. He regarded Exodus 20:3-6, as containing two distinct commandments and in this hypothesis in order to keep the number ten, verse 17 would have but one. The practice now universally adhered to among Catholics is just the reverse. See COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

More here: newadvent.org/cathen/04664a.htm
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James
 
If your protestant friend is so concerned with following the 10 commandments ask him why he is not remembering to keep the sabbath holy and going to Church on Sunday rather than on Saturday. Saturday is the sabbath.

The reason is because this is a Catholic tradition that Protestants ended up keeping. We changed the interpretation of this commandment to honor The Lord’s resurrection and triumph over death by worshiping Him on the new Lord’s Day (Sunday, the 8th day) - the day of His resurrection. This is because Catholics observed that this was a start of a new covenant and to force Jewish Christians to break with the old Jewish traditions and not try to revert Christianity back into Judaism. Ironically, it also made it possible for early Jewish converts to live a double life and escape persecution - worshipping overtly on the Sabbath (Saturday) as a Jew in Jewish temple worship and covertly as a Christian on Sunday (The Lord’s Day).

James
 
Florida_mom said:
I just discovered this when preparing information for my Sunday school class.

To be sure that what I pull off of the internet is consistent with church teachings when looking for activities, I Googled “Catholic 10 commandments”.

Well, I got them:

I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not kill.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Now–I’ve homeschooled my now 3rd grade daughter all her life. We’ve used our Catholic resources when teaching the commandments.

I honestly never knew there was a different list.

And there is (in the main google search) that accuses Catholics of deleting a commandment: The one about worshipping false idols.

It has a most disturbing quote:

In any case, can someone explain what happened and where we are all lost in translation.

In speaking of “idols” to the students in regards to whether a crucifix or a picture of Christ or a picture of Mary are considered idols, I brought up about family photos and how we have them to remind us of things. We don’t worship them and think it is the real thing, it is a reminder for us.

So why are protestants so vehemently ugly when:
  1. Misstating our method of worship and that the crucifix and everything else are false idols.
  2. They claim “WE” deleted a commandment and then used our perverted Bible to create more commandments.
Another quote from the site (I didn’t post it as I dont know if I can)

I was in a Christian Homeschooling group once where a mom in a Bible Study actually asked me if we believe in Jesus. I thought I explained it well, but I don’t know how to explain this difference in the commandments if it ever came up in conversation.

Why the difference and why the accusation that we perverted them?
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***To further complicate things, the Hebrew scripture has their own version of the 10 Commandments.

You can see them (Hebrew / Catholic / Protestant) side by side at***

biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/10%20Commandments.htm
 
CentralFLJames said:
If your protestant friend is so concerned with following the 10 commandments ask him why he is not remembering to keep the sabbath holy and going to Church on Sunday rather than on Saturday. Saturday is the sabbath.
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I did not mean to imply that they asked about the 10 commandments. I was shocked when asked if I beleived in Jesus as a Catholic. So figured someone would ask me sooner or later. 🙂

The thought came into my mind when I had to educate my Sunday school class on the commandments.

Sometimes I try to present things in such a way as to allow the students to be able to have a basic response if they were ever questioned on it by a peer.

And I was stumped on the commandments.

And on the Holy Day–I only found out recently why we do Church on Sunday and that it isnt the Holy Day.
 
passus said:
As for why some people grow so vehement…There are just not-nice people in the world and some Christian circles have unfortunately resorted to bashing and hating Catholics.
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Well, they kind of should be bashing Catholics, or at least Catholicism. If you’re a Christian, but you’re not a Catholic, you’re in apostasy from the original church. Considering that the Catholic Church has the only authentic claim to having existed from Pentecost, you need a pretty compelling explanation for not being a Catholic.

The Church has to be a terrible perversion of Christ’s teachings, and Catholics have to be deluded fools. The alternative, for the Protestant, is to accept that he belongs to a tradition that split from the Church of Jesus Christ out of someone’s personal sensibilities.
 
Florida_mom said:
And on the Holy Day–I only found out recently why we do Church on Sunday and that it isnt the Holy Day.
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Actually, look at the wording in the 10 commandments between the Jewish version, the Catholic version and the Protestant version. There are some subtelities here that say a lot.

Jewish version of Commandment Concerning Day to Keep Holy & Dedicate to God:
IV You shall remember** the Sabbath **and keep it Holy.

Catholic version of Commandment Concerning Day to Keep Holy & Dedicate to God:
III Remember to keep holy The Lord’s Day.

Earliest Protestant version of Commandment Concerning Day to Keep Holy & Dedicate to God:
IV You shall remember **the Sabbath **and keep it Holy.

Notice the difference in terminology - “The Sabbath”, “The Lord’s Day” and “The Sabbath” respectively.

Catholics completely redefined it to "The Lord’s Day - transparently redefining which day of the week that is and only known by Catholic Tradition.

Protestants, of course buck it and revert back to the Jewish wording “The Sabbath” but in their rush to Protest Catholics put every single Protestant in violation of The Law who does follow the Catholic Tradition to worship on Sunday rather than on Saturday (the sabbath). Unless Protestants want to admit the have their own traditions for what is “the sabbath” they are explicitly making themselves simultaneously non biblical and outside of the law when the go to Church on Sunday. But its all ok since Protestants don’t need to worry about any of this if they “just believe” since that will save them even from ignorance and their own bad works of theology rewrite.

I doubt you want to go any deeper than this but this seemingly small difference in the 10 commandments between Catholics and Protestants can be used to prove so many inconsistencies and self-contradictions in Protestant belief.

Observe that Protestants worsen their case by retaining the words “holy” in the sabbath commandment. But their Protestant principal of Sola Fide uses an old apostlic-era heretical theory (e.g. Antinomianism) for justification that makes “faith alone” sufficient to cover over sin. Their is NO CONCEPT of HOLINESS in Protestantism - we are all just “snow covered dunghills” and while “by faith alone” one can be forensically “justified” and declared “right” to God one is still at one’s core absolutely filthy in sin (God just can’t see it anymore - nor smell it either I presume). So essentially Protestantisms own Sole Fide belief makes it IMPOSSIBLE for ANY Protestant to be holy and therefore its IMPOSSIBLE to keep the Sabbath HOLY by worshiping God in holiness (assuming they actually worshiped on Saturday rather than Sunday).

Protestantism is an utter self-contradiction that just keeps snowballing down the slippery slopes toward the gutter and giving people more and more ways to fall into grave sin and error while thinking themselves to be snow-white. But it just stinks at its core and is an entrapment religion that is worse than anything the Pharisees could have come up with.

James
 
Hey, has anyone looked into atheist claims that the ten commandments were copied off of the Egyptian book of the dead. This book does have some pretty similar commandments
 
isacatholic said:
Hey, has anyone looked into atheist claims that the ten commandments were copied off of the Egyptian book of the dead. This book does have some pretty similar commandments
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If true (and I have no idea if it is) this is not at all surprising. God has written his moral law into every human heart from the beginning of the human race. So naturally we shouldn’t be amazed if that moral law finds expression in non-Christian settings. It’s in our very nature.
 
Actually I think the more plausible case is that it came from the ancient Hammurabi Code that predates Judaism by many centuries.

But we should also never forget that Moses was raised as an Egyptian Royalty and would have been taught many of the original Egyptian cultural things such as philosophy and their various religious beliefs.

James
 
CentralFLJames said:
Basically Catholics settled on St. Augustine’s view of the Decalogue and Protestants settled on Origen’s view. **It looks to me like Protestants did so only to be different (consistent with a “protesting” state of mind) **knowing that some of Origen’s teachings were later declared heretical by The Catholic Church.
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Just a note that Lutherans number the Commandments in the same way as Catholics, so I’m not sure that the “protesting” state of mind necessarily works. I may be wrong, but it may have to do more with the position (many) protestants have about icons, not shared by Lutherans, Anglicans, and perhaps some others.

Jon
 
Is God a God of confusion, irrational, inconsistent? He would have to be, if He commanded against religious images one minute and commanded them the next.

In Exodus 25, shortly after giving the commandment against “graven images,” God orders Moses to build an Ark to hold the commandments. He tells Moses how to build the Ark and cover it with pure gold, adding:

Exodus 25:18-19: “And make two cherubim (angels) out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other…The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them.”
So here we have God himself ordering Moses to produce religious statues of angels, immediately after the commandments had been given! Therefore the Protestant interpretation of this commandment must be incorrect.

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Ancient.Civ_Technol/Pics.Ancient.civ/050520.Ark.Covenant.jpg

Again, in Numbers 21:8-9, when the Israelites were plagued by serpents, the Lord told Moses to “Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that everyone who is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live”. _Moses did so, and people were healed by looking at it! _If God opposed all images, why would he have chosen to heal through them?

1 Kings 6:29 says that the walls of the Temple were covered with “carved figures of cherubims, and palm trees, and open flowers, within & without”.
_
1 Kings 6:31-35 tells that the doors to the inner sanctuary and the main doors of the Temple were also covered with gilded images of cherubim, palm trees and open flowers.

2 Chronicles 3:14 says that the great curtain of the temple was also covered in images of angels

2 Chronicles 4:2-4 shows that twelve metal bulls facing towards the four points of the compass, supported the “sea”, the ritual water tank of the priesthood. _

2 Chronicles 3:10-13 tells us that Solomon had two huge golden statues of angels constructed for the Holy of holies - in addition to the two on top of the Ark.

Does God ever object to this proliferation of images in the Temple?

No. In fact in 2 Chronicles 7: 12-18 he blesses the Temple indicating His divine pleasure.
 
=Axion;4934812]Is God a God of confusion, irrational, inconsistent? He would have to be, if He commanded against religious images one minute and commanded them the next.

In Exodus 25, shortly after giving the commandment against “graven images,” God orders Moses to build an Ark to hold the commandments. He tells Moses how to build the Ark and cover it with pure gold, adding:

Exodus 25:18-19: “And make two cherubim (angels) out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other…The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them.”
So here we have God himself ordering Moses to produce religious statues of angels, immediately after the commandments had been given! Therefore the Protestant interpretation of this commandment must be incorrect.
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No argument from me.
Jon
 
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