The 2nd coming of Jesus through Islamic Narrations

[famdigy]

Hudhayfah ibn ’Usayd al-Ghifàrí said, “We sat in the shadow of a wall in al-Madínah and the Apostle of Allah (‘s) was in a room. Then he appeared over us and said, ‘What are you doing?’ We said, ‘We are talking.’ He said, ‘About what?’ We said, ‘About the ResurrectionDay (al-Sà‘ah).’ He said, ‘You will not see the Resurrection Day until you see ten signs before it, sunrise from the West, al-Dajjàl and the beast of the earth, three lunar eclipses on the earth, one in the East, one in the West and one in the Arabian Peninsula and the emergence of Jesus the son of Mary (‘a) …”
Source (Bihàr, 6, 304, 3)

It is reported that Abu ‘Abd Allah (‘a) said, “Jesus the son of Mary is the Spirit of Allah and His Word. He was thirty-three years old in the world. Then Allah raised him to heaven. He will descend to the earth and it is he who will kill the Antichrist (Dajjàl.)”
Source (Tafsír al-Qumí, 2, 271)

It is reported that Jesus will say to al-Mahdí, “I was raised as a minister not as a commander.”
Source (Siràt al-Mustaqím, 2, 220)

Hudhayfah reported that the Prophet (‘s) said, “Al-Mahdí will turn his face to Jesus when he descends as if water were dropping from his hair, and will say to him, ‘Go ahead and say the prayer.’ Jesus will say, ‘The prayer has been set up only for you.’ So, Jesus will pray behind a man who is among my sons.”
Source (Siràt al-Mustaqím, 2, 257)

It is reported that Ka‘b said, “Jesus will descend from heaven. Then the Jews and Christians will come to him and say, ‘We are your people.’ He will say, ‘You lie. The emigrants, the rest of the people of battles,are my people.’ Then Jesus will come to the place that the Muslims are gathered and find their Caliph([39]) is praying with them, who will say to him, ‘O Christ! Pray in front of us.’ He will say, ‘But you pray with your people. I have been raised as a minister, not as a commander.’
Source (Siràt al-Mustaqím, 3, 92)

It is reported that the Prophet (‘s) said, “Among my progeny is the Mahdi. When he emerges, Jesus the son of Mary will descend to help him, then Jesus will send him ahead and pray behind him.”
Source (Bihàr, 14, 349)

It is reported from Abu ‘Abd Allah from his fathers that Hasan the son of ‘Alí (‘a) said when disputing with the king of Byzantium, “The life of Jesus in the world was thirty-three years. Then Allah raised him to heaven and he will descend to the earth in Damascus, and it is he who will kill the Antichrist (Dajjàl).”
Source (Bihàr, 14, 247, 27)

Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari (RA) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: “No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.”
Source (Sahih Muslim, Arabic, part 2, p193 )

“The Ahlul-Bayt are like the stars through whom we are guided in the right direction, and if the starts are taken away (or hidden) we would come face to face with the signs of the Almighty as promised (i.e., the Day of Resurrection). This will happen when the Mahdi will come, as mentioned in the traditions, and the Prophet Jesus will say his prayers behind him, the Dajjal will be slain, and then the signs of the Almighty will appear one after another.”
Source (al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p234)

Ibn Hajar quoted Abu al-Husain al-Ajiri saying:
The traditions of al-Mustafa (PBUH&HF) on the rising of al-Mahdi has been transmitted via numerous authorities and is more than the level of (being sufficient for) Mutawatir, describing that he is of his Ahlul-Bayt, and will fill the earth with justice, and that Jesus (AS) will come at the same time and he will assist Jesus for killing al-Dajjal in the land of Palestine, and that he will lead this nation and Jesus will pray behind him.
Source (Abu al-Husain al-Ajiri as quoted in al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p254 )

And when he comes (Imam Al-Mahdi) —may God hasten his appearance— he will lean against the Ka‘bah and cry out and call for his followers, who will number 313 persons. Prophet ‘Isa (Jesus) will come from the heaven down to the earth, and will pray behind the Mahdi. The Twelfth Imam will enforce the commands of Islam all over the world; and the earth will be like heaven.
Source (Islam: Faith, Practice & History, by Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi, Chapter 18)

Abu Sa’id Khudari relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) told Fatima:
“The Mahdi of this community behind whom Jesus will pray is among us.” Then he struck Husayn’s shoulder with his hand and declared: “The Mahdi of my community will be from the descendants of this son of mine.”
Source (al-Bayan fi akhbar sahib al-zaman, p. 502)

Abu Basir says that he asked Imam Sadiq: “Who is the Qa’im of the ahl al-bayt?” He said:

O Abu Basir, he will be the fifth descendant of my son Musa, the son of the best among the slave girls. His occultation will be prolonged so much so that a group will fall into doubt. Afterwards God will cause him to appear and will make him conquer the entire world. Jesus, the son of Mary, will descend [from heaven] and will perform his prayer standing behind him. In that afternoon the earth will brighten up with the Light of God and all spots on earth where other than God was worshipped will become a prayer house dedicated to God. Religion will be entirely God’s, even though the disbelievers may be averse to it.
Source (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 52, p. 378)

 

[Hadi]

I don’t see any point in posting this thread…there are too many Islamic threads in this forum lately

 

[Agabriel]

Ironic that your sources are acceptable when it suits an agenda.

But, as for the verses and the 2nd coming of Jesus, you will need to refer to the Bible. The stuff you quote isn’t based on reliable sources.

How convenient that your sources denigrate Jews and Christians… again.

You forgot the part where He will kill the pigs. Ironic since He didn’t do it the first time around and pigs are creatures of God too. Why would Jesus have to break a Cross? Why would he give you guys a bunch of money?

3:425 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, 'by Him in Whose hands my souls is, Jesus will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolisht the Jizya. Then there will abundance of money and nobody will accept charitable gifts.

Jesus said many times that His Kingdom is not of this world.

That is one of the reasons why the Jews didn’t recognize Him as the Messiah. Because they, as you (Muslims), are also looking for something worldly.

 

[Eucharisted]

I have been raised as a minister, not as a commander

A minister is an officiant in church worship, i.e., a priest.

Jesus could not be raised as a priest for three reasons: 1) He was a Jew, 2) Christianity didn’t exist until He was crucified, 3) The first church was Peter’s house and it wasn’t used as a church until after Jesus’ ascension into Heaven.

So Mohammed lied.

 

[famdigy]

Ironic that your sources are acceptable when it suits an agenda.

I always maitain a certain standard when quoting a source I believe in. You may not be aware but we consider Aisha, Anas bin Malik, and Abu Huraira as the 3 most liers who slandered our prophet (pbuh&hf), as has been taught to us by the the imams from the prophet’s family (pbuh&hf). Therefore, you won’t find me quoting anything from them since they are unreliable.

 

[famdigy]

A minister is an officiant in church worship, i.e., a priest.

Jesus could not be born a priest for three reasons: 1) He was a Jew, 2) Christianity didn’t exist until He was crucified, 3) The first church was Peter’s house and it wasn’t used as a church until after Jesus’ ascension into Heaven.

That’s a narrow view of the word minister. According to dictionary.com the word minister can be applied in other contexts and has a wider scope than the one you give, which I’m not surprised by as this is not the first time you have quoted something partially while ignoring the rest.

Miniser:
9. to give service, care, or aid; attend, as to wants or necessities.: to minister to the needs of the hungry.
10. to contribute, as to comfort or happiness.

 

[Agabriel]

I always maitain a certain standard when quoting a source I believe in. You may not be aware but we consider Aisha, Anas bin Malik, and Abu Huraira as the 3 most liers who slandered our prophet (pbuh&hf), as has been taught to us by the the imams from the prophet’s family (pbuh&hf). Therefore, you won’t find me quoting anything from them since they are unreliable.

OOOHHHH, now I got ANOTHER guy that doesn’t fit the agenda.

Let me see, the guy who lied and encouraged lying - who told people not to honor cease fires, or told the ones who didn’t want to fight to deceive others as to what the meaning of the Quran is, etc - you guys hold up as a Prophet, but the ones who might have said something that went against the Prophet - they are the liars. The Quran even says that Allah is a liar.

Jesus/bible - “Value the truth, do not lie.”
Muhammad - “Allah is the greatest of all deceivers.”
“and [they] deceived and Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers” Sura 3:54

Maybe Allah lied to you. How do you trust a liar?

Anyway, the 2nd sentence still applies from my first post -

But, as for the verses and the 2nd coming of Jesus, you will need to refer to the Bible. The stuff you quote isn’t based on reliable sources.

To take the 2nd Coming of Jesus from a Muslim perspective sounds more like a topic for an Islamic website. What are we to say?

We don’t acknowledge the Quran as anything from God. It messed up the stories of the OT as did the hadiths. It contradicts the Bible and too often contradicts itself.

 

[famdigy]

But, as for the verses and the 2nd coming of Jesus, you will need to refer to the Bible. The stuff you quote isn’t based on reliable sources.

Sometimes I wonder where your head is Agabriel, maybe you didn’t read the title, it’s called the 2nd coming of Jesus through islamic Narrations. I’m not debating on what you consider reliable, neither do I care. But thanks for the usual rants :clapping:

 

[Eucharisted]

From www.dictionary.com

minister- 9 dictionary results
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Biola University’s Talbot School of Theology. Apply now for Fall 2009!
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Ceremony to reflect your beliefs. Orange and Los Angeles County.
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min⋅is⋅ter  /ˈmɪnəstər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [min-uh-ster] Show IPA
–noun *1. a person authorized to conduct religious worship; member of the clergy; pastor.
2. a person authorized to administer sacraments, as at Mass.
3. a person appointed by or under the authority of a sovereign or head of a government to some high office of state, esp. to that of head of an administrative department: the minister of finance.
4. a diplomatic representative accredited by one government to another and ranking next below an ambassador. Compare envoy 1 (def. 1).
5. a person acting as the agent or instrument of another. *

–verb (used with object) 6. to administer or apply: to minister the last rites.
7. Archaic. to furnish; supply.

–verb (used without object) 8. to perform the functions of a religious minister.
9. to give service, care, or aid; attend, as to wants or necessities.: to minister to the needs of the hungry.
10. to contribute, as to comfort or happiness.

So was Jesus a pastor, a priest, a politican, a diplomat, or an agent? Let’s see:

1. He could not be a pastor, for reasons I cited above (born a Jew, Christianity didn’t exist yet, etc.)
2. He could not be a priest, for the same reasons cited above
3. He could not be a politican, because He did not seek political power
4. He could not be a diplomat for the same reason: Did not seek political power
5. He could be an agent of another person, but there’s no historical evidence for this.

 

[famdigy]

From www.dictionary.com
5. He could be an agent of another person, but there’s no historical evidence for this.

a 6th possability
6. He could be an agent of God, authorized to preach and teach the message of the Lord.

 

[Cluny]

a 6th possability
6. He could be an agent of God, authorized to preach and teach the message of the Lord.

Since Mohamed was a pedophile deceived by demons, this is not a viable possibility.

Any adult male who has sexual intercourse with a 9 year old girl is, by definition, a pedophile.

The Al-Madhi is the Antichrist and the “Isa” referred to as coming again is the False Prophet.

For further information, go to this site:

al-mahdi.atspace.com/index.html

 

[Eucharisted]

a 6th possability
6. He could be an agent of God, authorized to preach and teach the message of the Lord.

Yes, but that’s not what Islam teaches. Islam teaches that Jesus is a spirit (Qu’ran 4:171). Now, how could a spirit teach and preach?

 

[famdigy]

Since Mohamed was a pedophile deceived by demons, this is not a viable possibility.
Any adult male who has sexual intercourse with a 9 year old girl is, by definition, a pedophile.
The Al-Madhi is the Antichrist and the “Isa” referred to as coming again is the False Prophet.
For further information, go to this site:

al-mahdi.atspace.com/index.html

Clungy; is this how Jesus would have behaved and spoken if he were here, and what would you think Jesus would think of you if he read the tone of your comment.

In any case, as I told Agabriel before you, we don’t believe the prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf) to have married Aisha when she was 6 years old. The evidence you use to support this view is based on Aisha’s testimony whome we don’t believe and further more it is taken from Sunni sources that are not authoritiatve over the Shia.

If I had wanted a provocation, I could have pointed out the sex abuse cases that have plauged your catholic curch for years. You speak about pedophelia when your catholic church has made financial settlements with sex abuse victims in the hundreds of millions of dollars. In many cases catholic priests who have been found to be sexually abusing children were relocated by the church, which enabled them to abuse again and again. In other cases the victims themselves were threatened by the church. So please, direct your self-righteousness to the not-yet-found-out pedophiles in your church.

 

[Eucharisted]

By the way, famdigy, I see you have a picture of Jesus in your signature.

Muslims aren’t allowed to have pictures of prophets.

 

[Agabriel]

Sometimes I wonder where your head is Agabriel, maybe you didn’t read the title, it’s called the 2nd coming of Jesus through islamic Narrations. I’m not debating on what you consider reliable, neither do I care. But thanks for the usual rants

You are on a Catholic website. Why would we take it from your viewpoint?

How can we debate something from sources that are questionable in regards to not only Jesus’ 2nd Coming, but the Prophethood of Muhammed and the Quran being something that a God created?

And ‘you don’t believe that Muhammed married Aisha when she was 6 years old’, this is just picking and chosing from Muslim’s texts, and historians, is also questionable. Muslims are finding that this is not benefiting them to acknowledge this so they are now discarding this information, at least for our sake here on these threads.

As for the sex abuse cases that some priests were guilty of, we have laws to deal with such things. This is not so in Islam where prepubescent children are married to old geezers all the time. those men sinned also and are sitting their behinds in prison now. In Islam the men who practice pediphilia still walk around and many are clerics.

And this doesn’t even count the slaves that are sexually abused in Islam. Sharia laws don’t even protect them, or the prepubescent children, in Islam.

but, we stray from the 2nd Coming of Jesus. Like I said before, how can we discuss this when these verses that you give to us are not even correct? You need to go to the Bible.

surah 10:94 Basically, it is telling the muslims to read the Bible - the ‘books before them’. He even says that it is ‘truth from our Lord’.

There are a few other surahs that tell Muslims to do the same. So, if the Bible is considered the Truth even from the koran, then it nullifies the Quran since the koran has a completely different message.

And if you say that the Bible is corrupted then prove it. No one has proven it.

 

[Holly3278]

By the way, famdigy, I see you have a picture of Jesus in your signature.

Muslims aren’t allowed to have pictures of prophets.

What is your source for this information?

 

[famdigy]

Yes, but that’s not what Islam teaches. Islam teaches that Jesus is a spirit (Qu’ran 4:171). Now, how could a spirit teach and preach?

Islam teaches he is a spirit only in the context of his creation, as in how Jesus came to exist. If you read 4:171 from begining to end you will see that Islam affirms he is a messenger, and a human like any human born to a mother.

By the way, famdigy, I see you have a picture of Jesus in your signature.

Muslims aren’t allowed to have pictures of prophets.

The way I understand it is that we are not allowed to believe the prophet, imam ect… looks exactly as the picture, this is from a precautionary point of view, just in case we are wrong we don’t want to be liable therefore as a precaution the scholars have advised not to believe the person in question looks exactly like the image drawn.

On the other hand, we have detailed descriptions of what the imams looked like, just as a scetch artist would draw a picture from a description, muslims artists in the community did the same. The image resemble the holy figure, but doesn’t mean the person looks exactly as has been drawn. This is the Shia point of view.

Sunnis on the other hand forbid as you said, and I believe it is because of an existence of a hadith that states God on the day of Judgement will ask those who drew images of living beings, (humans,animals ect…) to bring them to life, if they don’t He throws them in hell
so I suspect they view it as a form of shirk, associating partners with Allah.

 

[Eucharisted]

What do you mean, in the context of his creation?

 

[famdigy]

You are on a Catholic website. Why would we take it from your viewpoint?

I’m on the non-catholic religions part of the forum, you’re looking for a confrontation and I’m not debating these points with you. If you take offence to anything I’ve posted, take it up with the forum admin and let them decide what to do.

How can we debate something from sources that are questionable in regards to not only Jesus’ 2nd Coming, but the Prophethood of Muhammed and the Quran being something that a God created?

this is not a debate, your looking for a debate and i’m not debating here, repeat once, repeat twice.

And ‘you don’t believe that Muhammed married Aisha when she was 6 years old’, this is just picking and chosing from Muslim’s texts, and historians, is also questionable.

You know, there is a saying that states “repetition will teach even the donkey” but no matter how much I repeat it to you, it doesn’t seem to sink in. I don’t believe Muhammad married a 6 year old becuase it is not in our muslim texts, by our I mean the Shia muslim texts. Our theology is different, our history is different, our hadiths are different, our belief in God, the prophet, and many islamic fundamentals are different to the Sunnis. I hope you understand this distinction and can remember it for the future. It’s like me pointing to catholic teachings of praying to Marry and accusing a protestant of the same, meanwhile the protestant doesn’t believe in Intersession.

 

[famdigy]

What do you mean, in the context of his creation?

[Quran 4:171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

O followers of the book: this verse starts off by addressing the christians.
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium: Qualifying Jesus son of Mary as a human being, a son born to a woman just as any other child born to a woman.
**is only a messenger of Allah **: Here he is described as a messenger, an agent of God if you will.

**and His Word which He communicated to Marium **: God through his generative will decided that Jesus will be born to the virgin Marry and no father.
and a spirit from Him: It’s the life breathed into Jesus

Word and spirit in the verse go had in hand and deal with how Jesus was created. The parts of the verse before that affirm that he is human, son of Mary, and a messenger.

so point 6 is still valid