The 2nd coming of Jesus through Islamic Narrations

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I’m on the non-catholic religions part of the forum, you’re looking for a confrontation and I’m not debating these points with you. If you take offence to anything I’ve posted, take it up with the forum admin and let them decide what to do.

this is not a debate, your looking for a debate and i’m not debating here, repeat once, repeat twice.

You know, there is a saying that states “repetition will teach even the donkey” but no matter how much I repeat it to you, it doesn’t seem to sink in. I don’t believe Muhammad married a 6 year old becuase it is not in our muslim texts, by our I mean the Shia muslim texts. Our theology is different, our history is different, our hadiths are different, our belief in God, the prophet, and many islamic fundamentals are different to the Sunnis. I hope you understand this distinction and can remember it for the future. It’s like me pointing to catholic teachings of praying to Marry and accusing a protestant of the same, meanwhile the protestant doesn’t believe in Intersession.
So, when you don’t want to accept something that has been repeated to you, I can call you a donkey too? I will keep your note for future reference on that.

As for ‘debate’, I used it as for a discussion.

Ironic, you get upset with me about Aisha, but nothing about Muhammed and Allah being liars. hhmmmm…
 
So, when you don’t want to accept something that has been repeated to you, I can call you a donkey too? I will keep your note for future reference on that.

As for ‘debate’, I used it as for a discussion.

Ironic, you get upset with me about Aisha, but nothing about Muhammed and Allah being liars. hhmmmm…
He’s been called a donkey before, but he just hand waves it away.

Moreover, insults aren’t charitable.
 
O followers of the book: this verse starts off by addressing the christians.
the Messiah, Isa son of Marium: Qualifying Jesus son of Mary as a human being, a son born to a woman just as any other child born to a woman.
**is only a messenger of Allah **: Here he is described as a messenger, an agent of God if you will.

**and His Word which He communicated to Marium **: God through his generative will decided that Jesus will be born to the virgin Marry and no father.
and a spirit from Him: It’s the life breathed into Jesus

Word and spirit in the verse go had in hand and deal with how Jesus was created. The parts of the verse before that affirm that he is human, son of Mary, and a messenger.

so point 6 is still valid
But no one has any problems with Him being born of a woman, Mary. Yes, He is born of the virgin Mary in human form.

Now how come you think that a mere man can come back as in the 2nd Coming if you think Jesus was only a man?

The sources, or proofs, that you are going to use are sources that are not even valid until you can prove that the Bible is corrupted. Since that is what the Quran is based on - the Bible being corrupted.
 
It’s like me pointing to catholic teachings of praying to Marry and accusing a protestant of the same, meanwhile the protestant doesn’t believe in Intersession.
Stop while you’re ahead.
 
this has gotten out of hand with all the bickering back and forth.
sorry about the rude comment Agabriel. I won’t be posting in this thread any longer.

A dark void sapped all the spririt from this thread.
 
The Twin Trumpet Blasts have been sounded!
The Qa’im (He Who will arise from the House of Hashim) and the Qayyum, (The Self-Subsisting), the Ruler of the Day of Reckoning both walked the earth, came and went like a thief in the night.

**Thou canst indeed hear the learned and the foolish amongst the people voice the same objections in this day, saying:
“The sun hath not risen from the West,
nor hath the Crier cried out betwixt earth and heaven.
Water hath not inundated certain lands;
the Dajjal hath not appeared;
Sufyaní hath not arisen;
nor hath the Temple been witnessed in the sun.”

I heard, with Mine own ears, one of their divines proclaim:
“Should all these signs come to pass and the long-awaited Qá’im appear, and should He ordain, with respect to even our secondary laws, aught beyond that which hath been revealed in the Qur’án, we would assuredly charge Him with imposture, put Him to death, and refuse forever to acknowledge Him”,
and other statements such as these deniers make.
And all this, when the Day of Resurrection hath been ushered in,
and the Trumpet hath been sounded,
and all the denizens of earth and heaven have been gathered together,
and the Balance hath been appointed,
and the Bridge hath been laid,
and the Verses have been sent down,
and the Sun hath shone forth, and the stars have been blotted out,
and the souls have been raised to life, and the breath of the Spirit hath blown,
and the angels have been arrayed in ranks,
and Paradise hath been brought nigh, and Hell made to blaze!
These things have all come to pass, and yet to this day not a single one of these people hath recognized them! They all lie as dead within their own shrouds, save those who have believed and repaired unto God, who rejoice in this day in His celestial paradise, and who tread the path of His good-pleasure.**(Bahá’u’lláh, Javahírul-Asrar, (Gems of Divine Mysteries), p. 18)
 
From the inception of the mission of **Jesus **-- may peace be upon Him – till the day of His ascension was the Resurrection of Moses. For during that period the Revelation of God shone forth through the appearance of that divine Reality, Who rewarded by His Word everyone who believed in Moses, and punished by His Word everyone who did not believe; inasmuch as God’s Testimony for that Day was that which He had solemnly affirmed in the Gospel.
And from the inception of the Revelation of the Apostle of God – may the blessings of God be upon Him – till the day of His ascension was the Resurrection of Jesus – peace be upon Him – wherein the Tree of divine Reality appeared in the person of Muhammad, rewarding by His Word everyone who was a believer in Jesus, and punishing by His Word everyone who was not a believer in Him.
And from the moment when the Tree of the Bayan appeared until it disappeareth is the Resurrection of the Apostle of God, as is divinely foretold in the Qur’án; the beginning of which was when two hours and eleven minutes had passed on the eve of the fifth of Jamadiyu’l-Avval, 1260 A.H.,[22 May, 1844] which is the year 1270 of the Declaration of the Mission of Muhammad. This was the beginning of the Day of Resurrection of the Qur’án, and until the disappearance of the Tree of divine Reality is the Resurrection of the Qur’án. The stage of perfection of everything is reached when its resurrection occurreth.

The perfection of the religion of Islam was consummated at the beginning of this Revelation; and from the rise of this Revelation until its setting, the fruits of the Tree of Islam, whatever they are, will become apparent.
The Resurrection of the Bayan will occur at the time of the appearance of *Him Whom God shall make manifest *(Bahá’u’lláh). For today the Bayan is in the stage of seed; at the beginning of the manifestation of Him Whom God shall make manifest its ultimate perfection will become apparent. He is made manifest in order to gather the fruits of the trees He hath planted; even as the Revelation of the Qá’im [He Who ariseth], a descendant of Muhammad – may the blessings of God rest upon Him – is exactly like unto the Revelation of the Apostle of God Himself [Muhammad]. He appeareth not, save for the purpose of gathering the fruits of Islam from the Qur’ánic verses which He [Muhammad] hath sown in the hearts of men.
The fruits of Islam cannot be gathered except through allegiance unto Him [the Qá’im] and by believing in Him. At the present time, however, only adverse effects have resulted; for although He hath appeared in the midmost heart of Islam, and all people profess it by reason of their relationship to Him [the Qá’im], yet unjustly have they consigned Him to the Mountain of Maku (Azerbayjan), and this notwithstanding that in the Qur’án the advent of the Day of Resurrection hath been promised unto all by God.

For on that Day all men will be brought before God and will attain His Presence; which meaneth appearance before Him Who is the Tree of divine Reality and attainment unto His presence; inasmuch as it is not possible to appear before the Most Holy Essence of God, nor is it conceivable to seek reunion with Him. That which is feasible in the matter of appearance before Him and of meeting Him is attainment unto the Primal Tree.
(The Báb, from The Persian Bayan, SWB p. 106)
 
Sometimes I wonder where your head is Agabriel, maybe you didn’t read the title, it’s called the 2nd coming of Jesus through islamic Narrations. I’m not debating on what you consider reliable, neither do I care. But thanks for the usual rants :clapping:
Dear Famdigy.

Out of curiousity am asking, as to what I heard, that when Jesus comes back, he will decend on Al Aqsa mosque, and moslems have even kept a ladder for Him to decend from the mosque. If so, as out curiosity, if Jesus can land from heaven to the mosque, would it not be easy to land direct to earth?
 
ah-ah talking about the 2nd coming without considering Baha’u’llah is a no no:nope:

Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah Law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two. amazon.com/Cruel-Usual-Punishment-Terrifying-Implications/dp/1595551611

This is one of the challenges facing the world, trying not to enflame the radical islamists!
Can you tell me what sort of process can even be started to deal with issues like this on a global scale?

From my perspective, Baha’u’llah is the Law-Giver, and anything connected with law of any sort, from any Dispensation in the past needs to be “reviewed” by Him. There is no God but God; and there is no other Court to go to, even for Muslims, who mistakenly think Islam is the last Revelation and they are the last religious community ever!
God will always weigh His communities. The people of Earth have been issued a subpoena, that they cannot ultimately avoid. It will take the concerted cooperation of the other nations of the world to counter the dangerous mind-set of radical islamists, on many issues, not just this one. Eventually, organized women will be instrumental in defying war, injustice and male chauvinism, and that is why I invoke Lysistrata .

All the following words, chosen from different sources, but put together here to convey their extraordinary range and power: “the Everlasting Father, the Lord of Hosts, the Most Great Name, and Preserved Treasure, the Most Great Light, the Most Great Ocean, the Supreme Heaven, the Pre-existent Root, the Day Star of the Universe, the Judge, the Law-giver, the Redeemer of all mankind, the organizer of the entire planet, the Unifier of the children of men, the Inaugurator of the long-awaited millennium, the Creator of a new World Order, the Establisher of the Most Great Peace, the fountain of the Most Great Justice, the Proclaimer of the coming of age of the entire human race, the Inspirer and Founder of a world civilization.”

Many times, when people deny a certain authority, they mock it, like children, saying ‘What are you gonna do about it?’ and "What do you have to back it up?’ Fine, let them throw out the baby with the bath water, when they think Baha’i is an irrelevant off-shoot of Islam. It is the only remedy, not only for islamic extremism, but for others as well.

I tell ‘Muslims’ there is no way they will win over the Christians as long as they deny the Crucifixion. I tell Catholics there is no way they can win over the Muslims as long as they worship the Mother of God. ‘There is no place to flee to’ except the Truth! The Chinese, in general, don’t care about either issue, but require another approach completely, and who else but the Lord would know how to gather together the tribes of men in the quickest, most efficient method possible? Because time is running out.

This was the case in the OT when nations defied the Lord, and it is the case now as well. Having established the Ark the way He wants it, humanity will incur retribution for mocking the Lord, and invites its’ own suffering by refusing its own safety! They deny that the result of their refusal will be hell. Either in this world or the next, they will hear the words:
'O concourse of the heedless! I swear by God! The promised day is come, the day when tormenting trials will have surged above your heads, and beneath your feet, saying: “Taste ye what your hands have wrought!”'

But I see the thousands of people I have warned lightly dismissing what I have passed along, and insisting on their right to rush on to their idols. I remember when the tornado came, people who had never spoken to each other came out to rebuild together? After the Calamity has passed, there will be much less argument.
 
Abu Basir says that he asked Imam Sadiq: “Who is the Qa’im of the ahl al-bayt?” He said:
O Abu Basir, he will be the fifth descendant of my son Musa, the son of the best among the slave girls. His occultation will be prolonged so much so that a group will fall into doubt. Afterwards God will cause him to appear and will make him conquer the entire world. Jesus, the son of Mary, will descend [from heaven] and will perform his prayer standing behind him. In that afternoon the earth will brighten up with the Light of God and all spots on earth where other than God was worshipped will become a prayer house dedicated to God. Religion will be entirely God’s, even though the disbelievers may be averse to it. Source (Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 52, p. 378)
Greetings famdigy: I am glad to see you quote from Bihar al-anwar. People in the West are unfamiliar with it, and should learn about it. Here are some more important traditions:

In the “Bihar” it is recorded: “In our Qá’im there shall be four signs from four Prophets, Moses, Jesus, Joseph, and Muhammad. The sign from Moses, is fear and expectation; from Jesus, that which was spoken of Him; from Joseph, imprisonment and dissimulation; from Muhammad, the revelation of a Book similar to the Qur’án.” Notwithstanding such a conclusive tradition, which in such unmistakable language hath foreshadowed the happenings of the present day, none hath been found to heed its prophecy, and methinks none will do so in the future, except him whom thy Lord willeth. "God indeed shall make whom He will to hearken, but We shall not make those who are in their graves to hearken."

Also, In “Arba’in” it is recorded: “Out of Bani-Hashim there shall come forth a Youth Who shall reveal new laws. He shall summon the people unto Him, but none will heed His call. Most of His enemies will be the divines. His bidding they will not obey, but will protest saying: ‘This is contrary to that which hath been handed down unto us by the Imams of the Faith.’” In this day, all are repeating these very same words, utterly unaware that He is established upon the throne of “He doeth whatsoever He willeth,” and abideth upon the seat of "He ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth."

Also, according to the tradition, Mufaddal asked Sadiq saying: “What of the sign of His manifestation, O my master?” He made reply: “In the year sixty, His Cause shall be made manifest, and His Name shall be proclaimed.” (1260 AH = 1844 CE)
 
My Muslim friends and I compare notes from time to time about the second coming, the False Prophet /Massikh-Dajjal (hope I am spelling it correctly) and Jesus/Isa. We find it fascinating and agree to disagree on certain points. We are not trying to convert each other and we both respect the OT Prophets, I see no harm in it. Even Jesus said, ***Come and let us reason together.

I would never want to discuss it with a mixed group of Shia and Sunni though. LOL

I do not like the part about the pigs either but have you ever thought about the encounter Jesus had with the possessed man of Gadarenes? Jesus cast out the demons and they were allowed to go into a herd of pigs. Surely Jesus knew what would happen to the pigs.

**Mark Chapter 5:

12And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand) and were choked in the sea.
**
 
There are lots of references contrasting animals and angels. Humans are in the middle, with the option to decide. I think the Qur’án’s reference to apes and pigs is that certain people forfeited their birthrights and fell from grace, one might say. Bahá’u’lláh called certain people animals because of their actions: worms, bats, beasts, dogs, wolf, son of a wolf, she-serpent, etc.
**Some men’s lives are solely occupied with the things of this world; their minds are so circumscribed by exterior manners and traditional interests that they are blind to any other realm of existence, to the spiritual significance of all things!
They think and dream of earthly fame, of material progress. Sensuous delights and comfortable surroundings bound their horizon, their highest ambitions centre in successes of worldly conditions and circumstances! They curb not their lower propensities; they eat, drink, and sleep! Like the animal, they have no thought beyond their own physical well-being.
It is true that these necessities must be despatched. Life is a load which must be carried on while we are on earth, but the cares of the lower things of life should not be allowed to monopolize all the thoughts and aspirations of a human being. The heart’s ambitions should ascend to a more glorious goal, mental activity should rise to higher levels! Men should hold in their souls the vision of celestial perfection, and there prepare a dwelling-place for the inexhaustible bounty of the Divine Spirit.
Let your ambition be the achievement on earth of a Heavenly civilization! I ask for you the supreme blessing, that you may be so filled with the vitality of the Heavenly Spirit that you may be the cause of life to the world. **(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 98)
 
Dear Famdigy.

Out of curiousity am asking, as to what I heard, that when Jesus comes back, he will decend on Al Aqsa mosque, and moslems have even kept a ladder for Him to decend from the mosque. If so, as out curiosity, if Jesus can land from heaven to the mosque, would it not be easy to land direct to earth?
Amogst Muslims it is believed that Messiah will come from heavens and will land at the white minaret to the east of Damascus. He will not land on Aqsa mosque. There is no such Hadith.

You are right about asking for the ladder. When Allah will bring Messiah from heavens to the minaret, why he will not land jesus on earth?? That is a valid question for the Muslims to answer becaus eit is found in their books. I disagree with such news.
 
My Muslim friends and I compare notes from time to time about the second coming, the False Prophet /Massikh-Dajjal (hope I am spelling it correctly) and Jesus/Isa. We find it fascinating and agree to disagree on certain points. We are not trying to convert each other and we both respect the OT Prophets, I see no harm in it. Even Jesus said, ***Come and let us reason together.

It is good to discuss.I hope you know who is dajjal (anti-christ) according to Muslim theology. The word "Dajjal"does not appear in the Quran. It is mentioned only in the Hadith. There is mention of his donkey too, quite an un-usual donkey.

The second coming of messiah is described in an essential (agreed upon) Hadith.
I would never want to discuss it with a mixed group of Shia and Sunni though. LOL
I do not like the part about the pigs either but have you ever thought about the encounter Jesus had with the possessed man of Gadarenes? Jesus cast out the demons and they were allowed to go into a herd of pigs. Surely Jesus knew what would happen to the pigs.
In the Hadith, it is written that when Messiah will come, he will break the cross and kill the swine. But these are metaphoric (symbolic) words only, not to be taken literally.
 
Jesus and previous Messengers came from ‘Heaven’.
It seems modern Muslims and Christians both expect Messiah to come down out of the atmosphere like the re-entry of Sky-Lab or something.

John 3:12 **If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? **3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which *is in *heaven.[Notice He was Heaven itself while He walked among us.]

They expect that He will descend from this heaven seated upon a cloud. They believe that there is in the heavens a cloud upon which He will be seated and by which He will descend; while, in reality, the clouds are vapors which rise from the earth and which do not descend from the heavens. The cloud mentioned in the Holy Scriptures is the human body, because it is a veil for them, like a cloud, which prevents them from seeing the Sun of Truth which is shining in the horizon of Christ. (Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v2, p. 316)
 
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