The 2nd Commandment

[whatsthetruth]

You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.

or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, what does this mean?

 

[Gorgias]

An image of a god.

 

[The_Scott]

An image of a god.

The emphasis here is a god, meaning a pagan god.

God commanded Moses to build the Ark of the Covenant, and have on top two cherubim (a specific rank of angels) on top.

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 25:18-22[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Waiting]

The 2nd Commandment ls “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.” You have quoted the second part of the Protestant 1st Commanndment.

 

[Gorgias]

The emphasis here is a god, meaning a pagan god.

Well, they were also forbidden to make an image of God, but I didn’t want to give the impression that the only prohibition was against images of God…

 

[Todd_Easton]

The word “heaven” is sometimes used to refer to the sky. If understood that way, that part of the Commandment prohibits the worship of creatures that fly, like birds and bats, and the making of images of such creatures for that purpose.

 

[patrick457]

The 2nd Commandment ls “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.” You have quoted the second part of the Protestant 1st Commanndment.

Nope, the Philonic 2nd commandment.

 

[highrigger1]

The word “heaven” is sometimes used to refer to the sky. If understood that way, that part of the Commandment prohibits the worship of creatures that fly, like birds and bats, and the making of images of such creatures for that purpose.

Todd,

No. It refers to anything at all anywhere. We should never worship or bow down to any replica or image of anything. We should only worship God.

Peace, JohnR

 

[Moro_Rock]

You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.

or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, what does this mean?

The Commandments were given to Moses before Jesus became a man. So now we all know what God looks like.
____________________
You shall not make for yourself a likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath
That means No Family photos on the mantlepiece !

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Todd,

No. It refers to anything at all anywhere. We should never worship or bow down to any replica or image of anything. We should only worship God.

Peace, JohnR

Except we are allowed to bow to others as a sign of respect if our culture does this.

And we are allowed to ‘bow to our partner etc.’ in square dancing.

And we are allowed to bow (if male) and curtsy (if female) after a theatrical or musical performance.

And we are allowed to KNEEL in front of statues or at a grave site or in our bedroom before our bed or before our Bibles as we pray, because we kneel down in worship of God. . .not in worship of a statue, a grave, our bed, or even our Bible.

And we have to remember that the word ‘worship’ can be traced back to mean 'respect for a PERSON’S WORTH". (That is why judges in Great Brittain are called, “Your Worship”.)

So the modern Protestant definition of worship as “that given to God alone” is not the original meaning of the word ‘worship’.

However, as all Christians (including Catholic Christians) know, the ultimate object of all praise, honor, glory, worship, laud, etc. etc. is God. We may honor and revere our parents (in fact scripture tells us to honor our father and mother!) and we may even greatly reverence them or other godly people (a lot of Protestants for example have a great ‘regard’ for Billy Graham, higher than their regard for other Protestant pastors, but they don’'t think he is God). Just as Catholics --and ORTHODOX–and many Episcopalians and Lutherans honor saints like the apostles and Mary the mother of God–they have a great regard for them but they don’t believe that they are Gods.

 

[Waiting]

Nope, the Philonic 2nd commandment.

I’m not a Biblical scholar. I do know that there are two numbering systems for the Ten Commandments. Catholics use one version, and Protestants use the other. The OP was not referring to the Catholic version of the Commandments.

 

[Luvtosew]

The 2nd Commandment ls “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.” You have quoted the second part of the Protestant 1st Commanndment.

I do believe the Protestant commandment is included in the law given to Moses.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I do believe the Protestant commandment is included in the law given to Moses.

So are the Catholic commandments.

The Protestants separate the first commandment of the Catholic numbering.

The Catholic first commandment is “I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before me.” (Part of 'thou shalt not have strange gods before me would be that one would not worship idols, no?)

The Protestant tenth commandment is “You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods, nor his wife.”

The Catholics separate that Protestant tenth commandment into the Catholic ninth and tenth.

Ninth: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
Tenth: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

(Amazingly for those who call Catholics 'anti-women", the Catholic numbering actually SEPARATES the ‘woman’ from the ‘goods’, making her a person and not just chattel. NOT that I am saying Protestants treat women badly or course. )

And of course one must ALSO remember that the original Scripture did not have chapters and verses or even punctuation.

So both Protestant and Catholic commandments are complete in and of themselves in rendering the commandments given to Moses in the Bible.

Catholics do include in their list the non worship of idols, and Protestants include non coveting of women along with goods. The numbers are just different for a couple of the commandments. That’s all.

 

[Waiting]

So are the Catholic commandments.

The Protestants separate the first commandment of the Catholic numbering.

The Catholic first commandment is “I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before me.” (Part of 'thou shalt not have strange gods before me would be that one would not worship idols, no?)

The Protestant tenth commandment is “You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods, nor his wife.”

The Catholics separate that Protestant tenth commandment into the Catholic ninth and tenth.

Ninth: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
Tenth: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.

(Amazingly for those who call Catholics 'anti-women", the Catholic numbering actually SEPARATES the ‘woman’ from the ‘goods’, making her a person and not just chattel. NOT that I am saying Protestants treat women badly or course. )

And of course one must ALSO remember that the original Scripture did not have chapters and verses or even punctuation.

So both Protestant and Catholic commandments are complete in and of themselves in rendering the commandments given to Moses in the Bible.

Catholics do include in their list the non worship of idols, and Protestants include non coveting of women along with goods. The numbers are just different for a couple of the commandments. That’s all.

Right. The Commandments, as given to Moses by God, weren’t numbered.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Todd,

No. It refers to anything at all anywhere. We should never worship or bow down to any replica or image of anything. We should only worship God.

Peace, JohnR

I agree, we are only to give divine worship to God and to give divine worship to anyone or anything else is idolatry. However, the Original Post asked specifically about that part of the Commandment dealing with the things “in heaven above” and that is how I framed my answer. The other parts of the Commandment deal with land and sea creatures, respectively. Of course, the things “in heaven above” might also refer to the sun, the moon, the planets, the stars, etc. or even the angels. However, since the breakdown in the Commandment somewhat follows the creation narrative for animals found in Genesis 1:20-25, the context, to me, favors an understanding of birds and other flying creatures as the things “in heaven above.”

 

[patrick457]

I’m not a Biblical scholar. I do know that there are two numbering systems for the Ten Commandments. Catholics use one version, and Protestants use the other. The OP was not referring to the Catholic version of the Commandments.

There are three numbering systems of the Ten Words in current use, actually:

The so-called Philonic division, first attested in the writings of the 1st century Jewish authors (De Decalogo 12.51) Philo and Josephus (Antiquities 3.89-92), is the numbering system of choice among the Eastern Orthodox and most Protestants (excluding Lutherans). A few Church Fathers such as Origen (Homilies on Exodus, Homily 8 On the Beginning of the Decalogue), St. Gregory of Nazianzus (The Decalogue of Moses) and St. Jerome (Commentary on Ephesians 6) are also known to have used this system.

1.) I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.
2.) You shall not make to yourself an idol.
3.) You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.
4.) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
5.) Honor your father and your mother.
6.) You shall not murder.
7.) You shall not commit adultery.
8.) You shall not steal.
9.) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10.) You shall not covet.

The Augustinian division, named after St. Augustine (cf. Quaestionum in Heptateuchum 7.2.61), is the preferred numbering system among Catholics and Lutherans. The medieval Jewish writer Abraham ibn-Ezra (aka Abenezra), in his commentary on Deuteronomy, proposed a similar reckoning.

1.) I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.
2.) You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.
3.) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
4.) Honor your father and your mother.
5.) You shall not murder.
6.) You shall not commit adultery.
7.) You shall not steal.
8.) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9.) You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. (Lutheran: house)
10.) You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. (Lutheran: wife)

The Talmudic division, attested in the Talmud (Makkot 24a) and other Jewish literature (cf. Targum Pseudo-Jonathan’s version of Exodus 20; Maimonides, Sefer ha-Mitzvot), is the one currently used by modern-day Jews.

1.) I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
2.) You shall have no other gods before me.
3.) You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God.
4.) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
5.) Honor your father and your mother.
6.) You shall not murder.
7.) You shall not commit adultery.
8.) You shall not steal.
9.) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10.) You shall not covet.

 

[patrick457]

Right. The Commandments, as given to Moses by God, weren’t numbered.

Yep. If we separate them by the imperatives, here’s how the Ten Words would look like:

I am Yhwh, your God, who brought you out of Mitzraim, from a house of slaves:

There will not be for you other gods upon my face.

You will not make for yourself an idol, and any likeness which is in the heavens above, and which is on the earth beneath, and which is in the waters under the earth.

You will not bow yourself down to them,

And you will not serve them: for I, Yhwh your God, am a zealous God, registering the iniquity of fathers on sons, upon the third, and upon the fourth of those hating me, and showing loving-kindness to thousands, of those loving me and keeping my commandments.

You will not take up the name of Yhwh your God for a falseness, for Yhwh will not acquit him who takes up His name for a falseness.

Remember the day of the Sabbath to set him apart [as holy].

Six days you will serve, and you will do all your work, and the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yhwh your God.

You will not do any work, you and your son and your daughter, your manservant and your maidservant, and your beast, and your stranger who is in your gates, for six days had Yhwh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all which is in them, and rested in the seventh day; therefore Yhwh blessed the day of the Sabbath, and set him apart [as holy].

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days will be made long on the ground which Yhwh your God is giving to you.

You will not murder.

You will not commit adultery.

You will not steal.

You will not answer against your neighbor a lying witness.

You will not crave the house of your neighbor:

You will not crave the woman of your neighbor, and his manservant, and his maidservant, and his ox, and his donkey, and all which is your neighbor’s.

 

[adrift]

Catholic Encyclopedia

•Being the one true God, He alone is to be adored, and all rendering to creatures of the worship which belongs to Him falls under the ban of His displeasure; the making of “graven things” is condemned: not all pictures, images, and works of art, but such as are intended to be adored and served (First).

 

[Waiting]

Yep. If we separate them by the imperatives, here’s how the Ten Words would look like:

I am Yhwh, your God, who brought you out of Mitzraim, from a house of slaves:

There will not be for you other gods upon my face.

You will not make for yourself an idol, and any likeness which is in the heavens above, and which is on the earth beneath, and which is in the waters under the earth.

You will not bow yourself down to them,

And you will not serve them: for I, Yhwh your God, am a zealous God, registering the iniquity of fathers on sons, upon the third, and upon the fourth of those hating me, and showing loving-kindness to thousands, of those loving me and keeping my commandments.

You will not take up the name of Yhwh your God for a falseness, for Yhwh will not acquit him who takes up His name for a falseness.

Remember the day of the Sabbath to set him apart [as holy].

Six days you will serve, and you will do all your work, and the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yhwh your God.

You will not do any work, you and your son and your daughter, your manservant and your maidservant, and your beast, and your stranger who is in your gates, for six days had Yhwh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all which is in them, and rested in the seventh day; therefore Yhwh blessed the day of the Sabbath, and set him apart [as holy].

Honor your father and your mother, so that your days will be made long on the ground which Yhwh your God is giving to you.

You will not murder.

You will not commit adultery.

You will not steal.

You will not answer against your neighbor a lying witness.

You will not crave the house of your neighbor:

You will not crave the woman of your neighbor, and his manservant, and his maidservant, and his ox, and his donkey, and all which is your neighbor’s.

Thank you, Patrick. That’s very interesting.

 

[highrigger1]

Except we are allowed to bow to others as a sign of respect if our culture does this.

And we are allowed to ‘bow to our partner etc.’ in square dancing.

And we are allowed to bow (if male) and curtsy (if female) after a theatrical or musical performance.

And we are allowed to KNEEL in front of statues or at a grave site or in our bedroom before our bed or before our Bibles as we pray, because we kneel down in worship of God. . .not in worship of a statue, a grave, our bed, or even our Bible.

And we have to remember that the word ‘worship’ can be traced back to mean 'respect for a PERSON’S WORTH". (That is why judges in Great Brittain are called, “Your Worship”.)

So the modern Protestant definition of worship as “that given to God alone” is not the original meaning of the word ‘worship’.

However, as all Christians (including Catholic Christians) know, the ultimate object of all praise, honor, glory, worship, laud, etc. etc. is God. We may honor and revere our parents (in fact scripture tells us to honor our father and mother!) and we may even greatly reverence them or other godly people (a lot of Protestants for example have a great ‘regard’ for Billy Graham, higher than their regard for other Protestant pastors, but they don’'t think he is God). Just as Catholics --and ORTHODOX–and many Episcopalians and Lutherans honor saints like the apostles and Mary the mother of God–they have a great regard for them but they don’t believe that they are Gods.

tantum,

It is fine to respect but not to worship anyone or anything but God. Peace, JohnR