The 6000 Year Earth

[ckempston]

ckempston, I am a theologian, not a scientist, but the hydrological and other scientific problems that conclusively disprove a literal reading of the Hebrew global flood story include:

(1) Insufficient water to cover the entire earth to a depth of 29,51.5 feet.

(2) No post-diluvial drain for all that water!

(3) Two-mile depth of Antarctic ice recording 150,000 years of ice deposition, that cannot possibly have formed in the 4,500 years since the flood.

Of course, you could jettison modern hydrology, geology, glaciology, physics, chemistry, and biology, which would permit you to interpret literally the global flood story of one ancient nomadic desert tribe. Or you could read the story through theological lenses, as its authors no doubt intended.

StAnastasia

I agree 100%

 

[heiscominginthe]

I believe (specially the bolded)

AMEN!!!

 

[StAnastasia]

I agree 100%

Of course, after the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets floated away and melted during the flood, God could have miraculously recreated them after the flood to appear as if ice cores show they are 150,000 years old. But would that be biblical?

 

[Thing]

ckempston, I am a theologian, not a scientist, but the hydrological and other scientific problems that conclusively disprove a literal reading of the Hebrew global flood story include:

(1) Insufficient water to cover the entire earth to a depth of 29,51.5 feet.

Whoa there Nellie!
We were only told that the water covered the mountains. We were not told the height of the mountains.

(2) No post-diluvial drain for all that water!

Who said the water drained away!

(3) Two-mile depth of Antarctic ice recording 150,000 years of ice deposition, that cannot possibly have formed in the 4,500 years since the flood.

We were not told the date of the flood, and even if we were it would not mean much to us today.

Of course, you could jettison modern hydrology, geology, glaciology, physics, chemistry, and biology, which would permit you to interpret literally the global flood story of one ancient nomadic desert tribe. Or you could read the story through theological lenses, as its authors no doubt intended.

Pilots have been known to stare at their compasses and ask for confirmation from several other compass holders and still refuse to accept that their needle is pointing north. I wonder if all those sciences think there was no flood, but have they tried proving that there was a flood?

 

[ckempston]

Whoa there Nellie!
We were only told that the water covered the mountains. We were not told the height of the mountains.

The ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat. How high is Mt. Ararat? Whatever mountain it happens to be, it had to be one of the high ones because it was the first place the ark went aground. Your claim that we’re not told the height of the mountains doesn’t hold water.

Who said the water drained away!

God caused the waters to recede. What does that mean?

We were not told the date of the flood, and even if we were it would not mean much to us today.

Based on the standard Young Earth Creationist model, all you have to do is add up all the ages of the geneology lists to arrive at the date for the flood. The whole point here is that the Young Earth models don’t work.

Pilots have been known to stare at their compasses and ask for confirmation from several other compass holders and still refuse to accept that their needle is pointing north. I wonder if all those sciences think there was no flood, but have they tried proving that there was a flood?

 

[StAnastasia]

We were only told that the water covered the mountains. We were not told the height of the mountains.

Mt. Everest is 29,035 feet high. The water prevailed fifteen cubits above the highest mountains (Gen. 7:20)

 

[Thing]

The ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat. How high is Mt. Ararat? Whatever mountain it happens to be, it had to be one of the high ones because it was the first place the ark went aground. Your claim that we’re not told the height of the mountains doesn’t hold water.

The ark came to rest upon the mountains of Armenia. There are 16 mountain ranges in Armenia and we do not know what they looked like in Noahs day, nor how high they were at that time.

God caused the waters to recede. What does that mean?

It means the waters receded, not disappeared.

Based on the standard Young Earth Creationist model, all you have to do is add up all the ages of the geneology lists to arrive at the date for the flood. The whole point here is that the Young Earth models don’t work.

The age of the earth is a different issue to Noahs’ flood. The butterfly flapping its wings in Bangkok does not cause anything to happen anywhere else. Linking two different things will not prove your point.

 

[Thing]

Mt. Everest is 29,035 feet high. The water prevailed fifteen cubits above the highest mountains (Gen. 7:20)

:banghead::hypno:You don’t get it. I don’t know how high mountains were in Noahs day.
Believe it or not, there was a time in earths history when there were no mountains.
And there was a time when there were small mountains growing.

 

[ckempston]

:banghead::hypno:You don’t get it. I don’t know how high mountains were in Noahs day.
Believe it or not, there was a time in earths history when there were no mountains.
And there was a time when there were small mountains growing.

LOL. This is just classic. The only way you know how mountains were formed and that there was a time when our present mountain ranges did not exist is from SCIENCE.

For the record, one of the YOUNGEST mountain range in the world is the Himalayas at just under 30 million years old. Believe me, the mountains Noah landed on are probably only a few feet different from the ones we see today.

 

[ckempston]

The ark came to rest upon the mountains of Armenia. There are 16 mountain ranges in Armenia and we do not know what they looked like in Noahs day, nor how high they were at that time.

It means the waters receded, not disappeared.

Wow, that’s deep. The waters receded means the waters receded. I’ll be sure to write that down for future reference.

The age of the earth is a different issue to Noahs’ flood. The butterfly flapping its wings in Bangkok does not cause anything to happen anywhere else. Linking two different things will not prove your point.

 

[Thing]

LOL. This is just classic. The only way you know how mountains were formed and that there was a time when our present mountain ranges did not exist is from SCIENCE.

Hey, and possibly from Genesis, don’t forget.
Remember what happened after the flood when the water was receding - thats right, the land divided, in the time of Pelig.
Goodness… I hear you say, does that sound like the land dividing, like… continental drift. And what happens when you get continental drift, yes, right again you get collisions between continents and mountain building at the point of collision.
Oh my goodness, you say again, but Armenia is at the point of collision between two continental plates and its mountain ranges were built when the plates collided.

For the record, one of the YOUNGEST mountain range in the world is the Himalayas at just under 30 million years old. Believe me, the mountains Noah landed on are probably only a few feet different from the ones we see today.

Of course thats the only slight hiccup, but no matter, I shall prevail. Do you know its 30 million years old, or do you think it is.

 

[Thing]

Wow, that’s deep. The waters receded means the waters receded. I’ll be sure to write that down for future reference.

Yes surprising that I can cover the earth in water AND make the water receed, without making it disappear. I’ll let you think about that for awhile.

 

[Feanor2]

Did Adam and Eve ride the dinosaurs- that would be cool.

Maybe they should put up a masterwork painting in the Vatican! Oh yeah. . . nice.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hey, and possibly from Genesis, don’t forget.
Remember what happened after the flood when the water was receding - thats right, the land divided, in the time of Pelig.

“…in his time [Peleg’s] the earth was divided” may mean, in its context, not, that it was broken geologically; but, that was shared out among the peoples listed in Gen.10.​

Peleg was born 130 years after the Flood, FWIW, in 2217 BC (Ussher dating)

Goodness… I hear you say, does that sound like the land dividing, like… continental drift. And what happens when you get continental drift, yes, right again you get collisions between continents and mountain building at the point of collision.
Oh my goodness, you say again, but Armenia is at the point of collision between two continental plates and its mountain ranges were built when the plates collided.

Of course thats the only slight hiccup, but no matter, I shall prevail. Do you know its 30 million years old, or do you think it is.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Did Adam and Eve ride the dinosaurs- that would be cool.

Maybe they should put up a masterwork painting in the Vatican! Oh yeah. . . nice.

If Adam & Eve were very very very tall, they may have kept them as pets - like chihuahuas ​

Being very tall might explain Adam’s age Possibly ?

 

[Feanor2]

I love this thread.

It’s like a combination of debate and comedy. . . A little bit of thought plus a little bit of laugh. . .

Perhaps a field trip to the Creationism museum in the US is in order. I can’t remember where it is.

I love the Catholic Church!! Though I am such an unworthy sinner.

 

[Verisimilitude]

You’ve said evolution is evil and causes people to believe abortion is OK. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You have shown twice already you don’t read things fully or with care.

I don’t discount any possibility having to do with the special creation of humans. It is beyond our ability to explain at this time.

You have vehemently argued against anything supernatural. Explain or comprehend?

There is certainly room for discussion. Just as long as it does not include a global flood, all humans and animals being wiped out, a big bowl of water in teh sky, or the mountains being covered with water.

“Individuality is fine. As long as we all do it together” Frank Burns

Since Jesus had no problem using fiction to make a point, I see no problem with doing the same.

Parables are not fiction.

If the Magesterium “officially” says that it did, well, all the more reason not to listen to it (but I actually don’t think it does).

All the more reason not to listen to it?

Well, it seems to be the exact opposite of what you’ve been arguing, so I’m not sure why you would point it out in support of your position.

It’s clear you are confused.

 

[Thing]

“…in his time [Peleg’s] the earth was divided” may mean, in its context, not, that it was broken geologically; but, that was shared out among the peoples listed in Gen.10.​

I add these just in the interests of accuracy and thoroughness;

Genesis

25 And to Heber were born two sons: the name of the one was Phaleg, because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother’s name Jectan.

8 Exodus

21 And when Moses had stretched forth his hand over the sea, the Lord took it away by a strong and burning wind blowing all the night, and turned it into dry ground: and the water was divided.

The earth was divided possibly as the water was divided, though maybe not by the exact same mechanism.

Peleg was born 130 years after the Flood, FWIW, in 2217 BC (Ussher dating

I do not care about Ussher, whoeverhewas.
The age of the earth and the flood were different events. The reason why the earth divided 130 years after the flood in the time of Peleg is simple. Continental plates are really big, and take a long time to accelerate, so the division which had its origins in the flood only began to show its final effect in the time of Peleg 130 years later. See.

 

[Thing]

Did Adam and Eve ride the dinosaurs- that would be cool.

Maybe they should put up a masterwork painting in the Vatican! Oh yeah. . . nice.

Of course, when archaeologists look for Adam and Eve they don’t look among the dinosaur bones.

 

[ckempston]

You have shown twice already you don’t read things fully or with care.

Right. Just so you know, it’s this type of response that is nothing but empty rhetoric, and totally uncharitable. If you have a rebuttal to provide, feel free to do so.

You have vehemently argued against anything supernatural. Explain or comprehend?

I have vehemently argued against anything that has rock solid evidence that it didn’t literally happen as Biblical literalists understand it (such as denying a global flood or 6000 year old earth, which just happen to be positions the “Magesterium” has no problem with). I just said that a special creation is quite possible and not contradictory to science. How is that not supernatural? I’m a Christian. I believe in one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ.

“Individuality is fine. As long as we all do it together” Frank Burns

Parables are not fiction.

The Catholic Encyclopedia states in one place, in regard to the parable of Lazarus that, “St. Augustine (De Gen. ad Litt., viii, 7) doubts whether we can take literally the description of the other world.” St. Augustine agrees that at least one parable is not literal. I guess I’m in good company.

All the more reason not to listen to it?

If the Magesterium taught that the earth was literally 6000 years old and that there was a literal flood that covered the whole earth, it would be clear that it was not guided by the Holy Spirit, and so, yes, that would be good reason to reject it as an authority.

It’s clear you are confused.

More empty rhetoric.