S
StAnastasia
Guest
You expect honesty? After all this?
- Status
M
matahari
Guest
If you do not accept who Jesus was [is] then how are you qualified to say what He meant or did not mean? And if you believed that Nagarjuna twaddle above then you would have no integrity. To you Christ would be the Sign of Contradiction foretold by Simeon in the Temple. "The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not be in need" Ps.23
R
rossum
Guest
One can always hope …
As a Buddhist I am optimistic about human nature - everybody will get to nirvana eventually.
rossum
R
rossum
Guest
Since no Christian accepts that Mohammed (pbuh) was the Prophet of God then no Christian is qualified to comment on the Qur’an. Since you do not accept that the Buddha was the Enlightened One then you are not qualified to comment on Bddhism. You are trying to close down a great deal of discussion about religion here.
That “twaddle” was not written by Nagarjuna, it was written about Nagarjuna by Professors Jay Garfield and Graham Priest. As they say “Nagarjuna is surely one of the most difficult philosophers to interpret in any tradition. His texts are terse and cryptic. He does not shy away from paradox or apparent contradiction.” That is why I quoted a text about Nagarjuna rather than a text by Nagarjuna. If you want to read the real thing, there here is Stephen Batchelor’s translation of the first chapter of Nagarjuna’s Mulamadhyamakakarika:Chapter One - Investigation of Conditions
- No thing anywhere is ever born from itself, from something else, from both or without a cause.
- There are four conditions: Causes, objects, immediate and dominant. There is no fifth.
- The essence of things does not exist in conditions and so on. If an own thing does not exist, an other thing does not exist.
- There is no activity which has conditions. There is no activity which does not have conditions. There are no conditions which do not have activity, and none which do have activity.
- Since something is born in dependence upon them, then they are known as “conditions”. As long as it is not born, why are they not non-conditions?
- It is impossible for something that either exists or not to have conditions. If it were non-existent, of what would they be the conditions? If it were existent, why would it need conditions?
- When things cannot be established as either existent, non-existent or both, how can one speak of an “establishing cause.” Such would be impossible.
- An existent phenomenon is clearly said to have no object at all. If the phenomenon has no object, where can the object exist?
- If phenomena are not born, it is invalid for there to be cessation. Therefore, an immediate [condition] is unreasonable. What, having ceased, can also be a condition?
- Because the existence of essence-less things does not exist, it is incorrect to say:“When this exists, that arises.”
- There is no effect at all in the conditions individually or together. How can that which is not in the conditions itself be born from conditions?
- If, although the effect is not there, it is born from those conditions, why is an effect not born from what are not its conditions?
- Effects [are of] the nature of conditions. Conditions do not have own nature. How can those effects of what does not have own nature [be of] the nature of conditions?
- Therefore, [it does] not have the nature of conditions, nor is there an effect with the nature of non-conditions. Since there is no effect, what could [be its] non-conditions or conditions?
However, since you are not a believing Buddhist, by your own argument you are unable to comment on that.
T
Thing
Guest
We recall to our minds that the question was; Is there enough water on planet Earth to cover the highest mountain, i.e. the water must exceed 30,000 feet in height.
All in all with the help of friend Buffalo and the expert scientists he quotes we have shown you the most current scientific findings on the amount of water on planet earth.
And to the best of my understanding of what those scientists said I can conclude that yes it is possible that there is enough water on planet earth to cover Mount Everest and reach the height of 31,696 feet or so.
To expand a bit:
Earlier I also linked to a scientificy article stating that the early earth was very hot and molten, so hot and molten in fact that rocks themselves formed part of the atmosphere as vapour. Water does not like to stay underground in those hot molten conditions and I think, is my opinion, that all the water on planet earth boiled off and rose as high as it could in the hot atmosphere.
Concluding that all the water on planet earth was not always in the mantle; and because ‘science’ believes a planet the size of Mars hit the early earth with a glancing blow, and that the same scientists, I feel sure, would describe, if they were asked, all the load of debris that was sucked into space by this planetary collision. I think, considering that the earths water was most probably boiling away up in the upper atmosphere that a glancing planetary collision would suck lots and lots of water out into space with it.
I’ll outline another imaginary scenario to account for the other part of the Biblical story, the bit about the fountains of the deep; Early earth was hot and molten, so hot that rocks formed part of its atmosphere as vapour. Lighter elements floated to the top of this light atmosphere.
Then a Mars sized planet struck the Earth a glancing blow sucking out a lot of atmosphere and water into space.
With the sudden loss of an insulating hot atmosphere the surface of the earth cooled very quickly, relatively speaking.
As everyone knows that when the surface of a molten object cools and hardens quicker than the interior, then as the interior slowly cools it contracts and trys to pull away from the solid cool crust. This contraction on cooling left many negative spaces within the crust because the cool crust could not contract, it was a spherical shell anda relatively stable shape.
…cont.
T
Thing
Guest
…cont.
Further along the Earth cools more and the water, that had not been sucked into space and which is now orbiting ice crystals, … the water which was left in the atmosphere condensed, as it does, and fell to earth as rain. This rain naturally found its way into these negative spaces in the Earths crust and filled them ful of water. These are now the primordial ‘fountains of the deep.’
The water which was left over on the surfaceadded a considerable amount of extra weight to the new crust and weighed in down a little more than it would be without that weight of water. So this shallow depression in the surface became the shallow sub-tropical sea, and the higher areas of the crust became the land.
At this point in history the Earth from core to crust had possibly a 7 mile wider radius than today as a result of the early very hot earth being at its maximum thermal expansion. When the crust cooled suddenly after the loss of the atmosphere the earth kept those expanded dimensions and only the interior of the earth contracted and shrank away a bit. So the Earth was bigger.
And along came the dinosaurs. With a combination of the 7 mile increase in radius of the Earth, the centrifugal force was greater, thus reducing the weight of really, really big dinosaurs - so that they could grow even bigger. Coupled with the increased centrifugal force the dinosaurs were also 7 miles further from the core, thus reducing their weight by a bit more. Also you have the fact that the center of the Earth at that time was not as dense as it is now, because the crust was more or less suspended and supporting itself away from the earths interior. There was less pressure on the interior and so it was less dense and so its gravity was somewhat reduced compared to todays gravity. Also you have the fact of billions and zillions of tons of water and stuff in close orbit around the planet. All of that stuff is mass also and it too will reduce the overall pull of gravity on an object on Earths surface.
All in all then, the dinosaurs weighed a bit less than they would today and so grew to the verge of what we would say is impossible sizes and weights.
In a nutshell, when the flood happened, the crust of the Earth was broken releasing not just the trapped waters in fountains from the deep but also releasing the pressure on the crust which was supporting the crust. all this added weight of the entire Earths crust and water pressured the core and mantle increasing their density and so increasing Earths gravity just enough to pull the orbiting icecrystals (you were wondering when wou’d hear about them) out of orbit and onto the shallow seas of earth. Hence the flood from above the sky and from the fountains of the deep.
The extra water pooled in the new oceans depressing the oceanbed and lots of it was subducted into the mantle, possible after the crust broke up and stuff.
simple.
Further along the Earth cools more and the water, that had not been sucked into space and which is now orbiting ice crystals, … the water which was left in the atmosphere condensed, as it does, and fell to earth as rain. This rain naturally found its way into these negative spaces in the Earths crust and filled them ful of water. These are now the primordial ‘fountains of the deep.’
The water which was left over on the surfaceadded a considerable amount of extra weight to the new crust and weighed in down a little more than it would be without that weight of water. So this shallow depression in the surface became the shallow sub-tropical sea, and the higher areas of the crust became the land.
At this point in history the Earth from core to crust had possibly a 7 mile wider radius than today as a result of the early very hot earth being at its maximum thermal expansion. When the crust cooled suddenly after the loss of the atmosphere the earth kept those expanded dimensions and only the interior of the earth contracted and shrank away a bit. So the Earth was bigger.
And along came the dinosaurs. With a combination of the 7 mile increase in radius of the Earth, the centrifugal force was greater, thus reducing the weight of really, really big dinosaurs - so that they could grow even bigger. Coupled with the increased centrifugal force the dinosaurs were also 7 miles further from the core, thus reducing their weight by a bit more. Also you have the fact that the center of the Earth at that time was not as dense as it is now, because the crust was more or less suspended and supporting itself away from the earths interior. There was less pressure on the interior and so it was less dense and so its gravity was somewhat reduced compared to todays gravity. Also you have the fact of billions and zillions of tons of water and stuff in close orbit around the planet. All of that stuff is mass also and it too will reduce the overall pull of gravity on an object on Earths surface.
All in all then, the dinosaurs weighed a bit less than they would today and so grew to the verge of what we would say is impossible sizes and weights.
In a nutshell, when the flood happened, the crust of the Earth was broken releasing not just the trapped waters in fountains from the deep but also releasing the pressure on the crust which was supporting the crust. all this added weight of the entire Earths crust and water pressured the core and mantle increasing their density and so increasing Earths gravity just enough to pull the orbiting icecrystals (you were wondering when wou’d hear about them) out of orbit and onto the shallow seas of earth. Hence the flood from above the sky and from the fountains of the deep.
The extra water pooled in the new oceans depressing the oceanbed and lots of it was subducted into the mantle, possible after the crust broke up and stuff.
simple.
O
Orogeny
Guest
Nah, way too complicated. The answer is simple. The aliens brought the water with them. In fact, water didn’t exist on earth until THEY got here. Water is the fuel they use to propel their Mars-sized space craft. The first group of THEM didn’t see the earth until it was too late and collided with it, forming the moon. Their fuel supply was injected by the pressure of the impact into the hole in the earth (you know, the one at the north pole) and sat there until God needed a source of water for the flood. He then turned on the divine microwave oven, heated the alien fuel until it erupted like geysers.…cont.
Simple.
Peace
Tim
S
StAnastasia
Guest
“And lo, when ye waters were abated, then did God send forth Santa from ye great hole in the North (verily Santa and Satan be one). And behold, Santa came unto Ararat where percheth ye Arke, and he tempteth Noah and his family with many gifts, and sayeth unto them: Noah, Noah, knew ye not that I would send an comet to rain down waters from above, and to break open ye fountains of ye deep? Write therefore in this book, ye bible, that the fountains of deep were opened. Now therefore open ye doors of ye Arke and let my dinosaurs roam freely that they may multiply and evolve greatly, for ye have not much time before they must become many species and then die and become oil, to furnish the fuel for ye hummers of that day.”
C
Contarini
Guest
But as a Buddhist, do you believe there is any human nature to be optimistic about?
Does “everyone” get to nirvana, or is it just that there will be a time when there is no unenlightened consciousness inhering in collections of aggregates?
Edwin
C
Contarini
Guest
That’s out of line. I know atheists (and what’s worse, Christians) who think that the philosophy of Aquinas (the greatest Christian philosopher, as Nagarjuna is arguably the greatest Buddhist philosopher) makes no sense and can’t be believed with any intellectual integrity. That is hasty. So is your judgment.
Edwin
R
rossum
Guest
To quote Nagarjuna again:19. Samsara does not have the slightest distinction from Nirvana.But as a Buddhist, do you believe there is any human nature to be optimistic about?
Does “everyone” get to nirvana, or is it just that there will be a time when there is no unenlightened consciousness inhering in collections of aggregates?
Nirvana does not have the slightest distinction from Samsara.
- Whatever is the end of Nirvana, that is the end of Samsara.
There is not even a very subtle slight distinction between the two.
Everyone is already in nirvana, they are just not yet aware of it.
rossum
T
Thing
Guest
Obviously ye are both protestants, is the only possible explanation. I shall now shake some holy water at you… or in your general directions. :snowing:
S
StAnastasia
Guest
Actually, I’ve been a Catholic for more years than you may have been alive. I assumed you were the convert, having brought your un-Catholic biblical literalism across the Tiber when you came into the Church.
StAnastasia
O
Orogeny
Guest
T
Thing
Guest
I have absolutely no desire to see science grow fat and flabby. Baring in mind that science described the flood story to us in the early 1900’s, and told us how it actually happened. I would not like to think it would feel it has become trapped in yet another phase of thought, too proud to get out of the shower…
…so I determined to exercise science a bit,
though it seems to cough and wheeze a bit…
O
Orogeny
Guest
Yeah, except for a guy named James Hutton back in the 18th century. And most geologists basically since at least Charles Lyell in early 19th century.
So good of you to take time to watch out for science that way.I would not like to think it would feel it has become trapped in yet another phase of thought, too proud to get out of the shower…
…so I determined to exercise science a bit,
Peace
Tim
L
look3467
Guest
You got that right in how you see it. There are two things going on here, the physical side and the spiritual side.
If they ate as the story goes, they continued to live and not die physically until they lived out their years, so technically, they did not die.
Second, they did die spiritually the day they ate.
The deception was then done in the flesh, not in the spirit.
The deception is in the flesh that we can live and do anything we want and not die, but in spirit, we are dead already. (Eve representative of the flesh saw no evil in it)
Ref: Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Your right again.
The tree of life was held from them until a pre-determined time in human history, about 2,000 years ago.
Absolutely correct!
Here is where we differ: My view is that Christ suffered for us the penalty of eternal death, allowing us a renewal of spirit, as in born again.
The option is there for our taking while we are yet alive, but if we don’t take it, for whatever reason, does not negate the price paid by Christ for the souls of humanity.
It doesn’t matter, for eternal purposes, while we are in the flesh.
What does matter is what we do in the flesh that is accountable in the flesh, or say, we are judged while in the flesh and fleshly payment is required.
That is the reason we can or I can, include Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and all others in God’s plan of Salvation, because it was His work, not ours that saves us.
What my view does is make brothers and sisters of all of us and therefore, comply with the words, “1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
The word “must” in you response is true, but must be understood in the flesh to be realized, otherwise, death of the physical comes and after that, their spirits will be renewed at a loss.
I mean loss, because blessings are granted in the flesh while we are born again to be enjoyed as glorious praise or favor from our God.
When is the last time God has touched your soul? When He did, was it not a heavenly feeling? The love of God is indescribable when touched by Him and can only be explained to others by them being touched the same way.
Blessings, AJ
L
look3467
Guest
You see, Jesus had to be every bit human if He was to comply with God’s perfection, therefore, Jesus only saw what the Father gave Him to see.
Ref: Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Therefore, there were things hidden from Him as well.
Isa 42:19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD’S servant?
Who was going to ransom who?
Psa 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
No man could redeem his brother, nor no man could redeem Jesus from the cross.
The hope of the flesh was redemption from dying, but Jesus new in spirit He would be redeemed. (Jesus held to that promise)
Ref: Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
We now to, can hold on to that promise, that we shall be with Him after this life.
Blessings, AJ
L
look3467
Guest
A noble belief at that, but have you experienced the presences of God’s spirit?
I have and I can attest to His spiritual nature and the flesh is but like a blade of grass, it is green for a season, yet, my spirit lives on for eternity.
That is the hope, the promise I have been given, and I can tell you, I would have it no other way.
Blessings, AJ
D
DonLeon
Guest
Did you ever stop to think that evolution is a true fact and that it was/is under God’s control and a part of His plan? Creationism is fine, but we finite human beings absolutely DO NOT KNOW the mind and plans of God and it is futile to try to find out or even try to direct Him to our way of thinking. Too many of we ignorant humans try to tell God what we
think He is telling us and then tell Him what to do the way WE want it! WAKE UP!!!
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
- Status