The 6000 Year Earth

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now wait a minute… it took 40 YEARS… if your scientist would have done their work they would have figured it out in less then a week… how can you possibly believe that?
“My” scientists were working at the time the story was developing 97 years ago and not many years after the fact as you are. You are under the delusion that our knowledge of science has been constant from the beginning and that things that are obvious now should have been in 1912.
Do not confuse the point, i am NOT saying that pluto does or did not exist… i want to know, HOW the classification has changed when for several years we were taught that pluto was a PLANET… but now it’s not… that is another one of those scientific “facts” that took several years to figure out that the “fact” was not a “fact”.
Nothing has changed except the classification. What is the problem with that? The “fact” is is that Pluto exists. It was not a “fact” intially that Pluto was not a planet.
will that take 40 years too?
If it is a fraud, it will be discovered much quicker now. We have many more tools available than were available in 1912. Unfortunately for your view of the faith, though, it looks very, very real.
I have examples of scientists that have been ostiricized because of their belief to the contrary of evolution.
So? How many lied about their faith simply to get funding? I asked for a scientist that embraced evolution only to get funding.
Yes, I do feel that I am qualified, it’s called free will… do you feel that just because someone tells you something that you should always believe it?
Free will is a matter of faith, not of science (or accounting or farming or plumbing or any other profession). Your answers make it clear that the extent of your scientific knowledge comes from YEC sources and you don’t even understand why they are wrong. There is nothing wrong with having little or no scientific knowledge. It is another thing all together to act as if you do when you don’t.

And believe it or not, some of us have actually studied science.

Peace

Tim
 
“My” scientists were working at the time the story was developing 97 years ago and not many years after the fact as you are. You are under the delusion that our knowledge of science has been constant from the beginning and that things that are obvious now should have been in 1912
not true, they simply had to put this under the microscope to determine fraud.
Nothing has changed except the classification. What is the problem with that?
The “fact” is is that Pluto exists. It was not a “fact” intially that Pluto was not a planet.
yes, and that is what i am telling you… the CLASSIFICATION listed Pluto as a planet as “fact” was incorrect… i do understand your point with the evolution of technology, but to be quick to label something with out proper evidence isn’t science.
Your answers make it clear that the extent of your scientific knowledge comes from YEC sources and you don’t even understand why they are wrong. There is nothing wrong with having little or no scientific knowledge. It is another thing all together to act as if you do when you don’t.
regardless of my scientific background, that would not exclude me from this discussion… just because you do have a scientific background would not give you all of the answers either. your frustration with my answers does not give any indication of my scientific background.
 
not true, they simply had to put this under the microscope to determine fraud.
And they did. And they declared it a fraud. Which is what science does.
yes, and that is what i am telling you… the CLASSIFICATION listed Pluto as a planet as “fact” was incorrect… i do understand your point with the evolution of technology, but to be quick to label something with out proper evidence isn’t science.
No, the evidence was there just as it is there now. Pluto exists. It is a matter of semantics as to whether or not it is a planet. A label is not a fact, the existence of Pluto is.
regardless of my scientific background, that would not exclude me from this discussion… just because you do have a scientific background would not give you all of the answers either. your frustration with my answers does not give any indication of my scientific background.
I have no problem admitting I don’t have all the answers. No one does. However, I have many more than you do since you don’t have a science background. You show that by accepting YEC arguments that are seriously wrong and you don’t even understand why, you just accept them because they conform to your idea of faith.
 
And they did. And they declared it a fraud. Which is what science does.
it took them 40 years to figure out that they needed to put it under the microscope? that is what science does?
No, the evidence was there just as it is there now. Pluto exists. It is a matter of semantics as to whether or not it is a planet. A label is not a fact, the existence of Pluto is.
but the evidence to determine a label should be factual.
I have no problem admitting I don’t have all the answers. No one does. However, I have many more than you do since you don’t have a science background. You show that by accepting YEC arguments that are seriously wrong and you don’t even understand why, you just accept them because they conform to your idea of faith.
how do you know my science background? is that based upon factual evidence or is it a theory?
i’m not familiar with YEC, can you enlighten me?
 
it took them 40 years to figure out that they needed to put it under the microscope? that is what science does?
Yes, that’s what science does. See, the goal is accuracy, not speed. Too bad you weren’t there, you could have shown them immediately.
but the evidence to determine a label should be factual.
Sigh. The evidence is factual. A label/classification is not a fact.
how do you know my science background? is that based upon factual evidence or is it a theory?
Factual evidence. Posts like this:
Carbon dating is a theory because the information gained from the test is not proven to be entirely factual.
Carbon dating is a THEORY as well. Imagine this, a test of anything will be confused given different environments.
I would suggest that you watch Ben Stein’s movie: “Expelled…”,
All very good evidence that you don’t have a science background.
i’m not familiar with YEC, can you enlighten me?
Young Earth Creationist.

Peace

Tim
 
And they did. And they declared it a fraud. Which is what science does.No, the evidence was there just as it is there now. Pluto exists. It is a matter of semantics as to whether or not it is a planet. A label is not a fact, the existence of Pluto is.I have no problem admitting I don’t have all the answers. No one does. However, I have many more than you do since you don’t have a science background. You show that by accepting YEC arguments that are seriously wrong and you don’t even understand why, you just accept them because they conform to your idea of faith.
And science has falsified part of macro-evolution.
 
for what?
The basis for your claim that science has falsified part of macro-evolution. I started another thread, so if you could be so kind as to post your response there I would appreciate it.

Peace

Tim
 
The basis for your claim that science has falsified part of macro-evolution. I started another thread, so if you could be so kind as to post your response there I would appreciate it.

Peace

Tim
Point me to the thread.
 
Thank you

OK. The FIRST Person.

“eternally begotten”??? OK. The SECOND Person. By the way, it is “by Him” not “through Him” (see Jn. 1:3) which leaves the FIRST Person on holiday when all was created.

“By”, if the Word is thought of as the Source of creation; “through”, if He is being considered as the Means; with or without reference to His being the Source. FWIW, the Biblical literature was truly brought into being by men - as God is the Primary Author of it, they, whose action is secondary to God’s & never independent of His action upon then, are also fitly said to be the men through whom God so acted. His activity does not swamp, but “real-ises” & vivifies & “dynamises” that of creatures: not least in the Conception of Jesus. It is a great mistake to think of God’s action as “crowding out” that of creatures: such a thing is impossible, because the two kinds of action are incommensurable: they have no “third term” in common.​

The MAN Christ Jesus who is now, bodily, with God the Father in Heaven. OK. The FORTH Person???

There is no fourth.​

OK. The THIRD Person. The TRUE Father of the MAN Christ Jesus (see Mat. 1:20; Lk. 1:35)

The Baptism of John, water baptism. What of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? (see Mat. 3:11) You see it figuratively?

I know you can’t. I also had to know it by heart and recite it at Catechism

Considering you do not take the writings literally is it the spiritual message you seek? And do you get inner peace and/or enlightenment from your readings?

Yes, I suppose for a “born-again” Pentecostal you don’t come out very Christian-like

Yes, thanks again, and if it works for you …

The Holy Spirit is not the Father of Jesus Christ.​

The Conception of Jesus is like every birth, apart from this: the procreative action of the human father, which is a feature of the birth of every other man, was by-passed. The action of the Spirit of God is present in every procreative action - whether of Jesus, or of his fellow-men. That does not mean that other human fathers are not fathers of their offspring; it means that the Spirit is as truly “the LORD, the Giver of life” when action through their action, as He is in the Conception of Jesus. Most conceptions involve a mother, a father, & the Spirit - that of Jesus, by contrast, left the father out; the action of the Spirit was not mediated by that of any human begetter. Jesus has a Father - but He is not the Spirit, & not a man.

And because this is (among other things) an unmediated Act of God, it is not the same in kind as the action of a human father, but wholly transcends it: so although the conceiving of Jesus is an effect of a woman’s action & of the action of the Spirit of God, Mary & the Spirit are not co-causes of equal status, as though they could be regarded as the parents of Jesus: the action of Mary, is (so to put it) “within” that of the Spirit, as is all action by creatures; if it were not, the difference between God the Spirit & the creature Mary would be abolished: God would be ranked with His works, or His works would be deified. .

Not all “overshadowing”, & not all action of the Spirit, is for giving life - but this action of the Spirit was.
 
Ok lets forget about newton, for it has nothing to do with discussion.

You claimed that since Darwin said his theory would stand or fall on fossil evidence that evolution has failed to meet its burden of proof.

I can only imagine you must be unaware of the amount of fossils there are, you must also fail to understand the significance of unique character combinations. However that aside your missing one KEY point. Darwin lived 150 years ago, the theory of evolution has not only progressed 10 fold in that time, but so has the evidence that supports it. Even if there were NO fossils, the evidence we do have still overwhelmingly supports evolution.

In short to claim we should still judge a theory by the understanding we had 150 years old is pretty obtuse to say the least. As knowledge advances so does understanding, education is a GOOD thing ;).
:thumbsup
Hi Charles,
Great, post I feel like we can have an intelligent conversation based on this. Only trouble is I’m not feeling all that serious about this right now. Oh well, I’ll do my best to respond. Oh Yes, and I also agree with your statement above that you are only imagining that I haven’t studied the fossil records, but that’s not at all surprising. I’ve been on many other forums with many other embroiled in zealous evolution mantra who came in with an attitude that anyone who believed God made the universe was a dunce that couldn’t speak in complete sentences, never mind have a dialog about science.:confused:
Anyhow let’s get past all that and have an honest conversation about truth claims. I’ll keep it lighthearted and humorous and hope it will not offend. I am totally aware that evolutionists have been stating there are macro transitional forms in the fossil record for years. But how shall I say this kindly - not many scientists I’m aware of have ever exactly been awed by a single one of those claims; 😉 They just don’t - well they honestly just don’t seem to measure up to the discoveries and advances that we’ve made in the real sciences like physics and chemistry and biology. To me the evolutionist thing has always been alot like the psych classes I was forced to take. I could get a good grade by just parroting what I read as pearls of wisdom but to tell you the truth I never put an ounce of faith that one of those egotistical windbags I studied could ever answer anything for me. And when I looked at their real lives? Man, what a mess those guys were. To me this was and always has been fledging science; the fringes of half truths; alchemy before real chemistry was discovered. I might just as well have been taking courses in voodoo and majoring in smoke and mirrors. Hey but that’s my low opinion and there’s alot of good men and women engaged in that pursuit - I just don’t believe there’s any substitute for loving people and praying for them.
Oh well but maybe now we’ve all heard about Ida the 47 million year old completely intact fossil whom they claim was a cat sized primate - the missing link :whacky: in the fossil record. Shouts of 'Eureka! We’ve found it!" “**Finally, we’ve got it this time!”, **are ringing from the rafters of random selection, echoing through evoltionist elitistville once again. :hammering: Did I just say once again?
Yes indeedie I did. Honestly haven’t we’ve been told this before? If they just “finally found it”, why have they been saying all along that they already had it? It just defies plausibility to me and sounds like “Deja Vu, all over again” - no offence against Mr. Yogi Berra who was a great catcher and great guy to listen to.
I actually remember going to school and them showing us the pictures of how we actually evolved from monkeys like they already had their proof. :hey_bud::whackadoo:
So this isn’t all exactly new to me like I just rolled out of bed, fell on my head, when someone said “evolution”. But let’s back back to those claims.
During the Scopes trial one of the exhibits offered in defence to impeach the mistaken claims of those toe-toe-lee eeg-no-rant christians was the pictures of Nebraska man that they had in their textbooks. When asked to produce the evidence all they could come up with was 1 tooth. Sound ridiculous? It gets worse my friend - when they finally found the “rest of the story” or shall I say dug up the rest of the fossilized skeletal remains it was that of an extinct pig. Monkey some could bee-leave but - but don’ta you go showin’ me that and sayin’ ets my pa now; mama deedint raise no peeg!
How do you spell Ho-Ho-Hoax:)
Then of course we been goin round the mountain when she comes on the Piltdown man fiasco discovered in 1912. Those are moment the priests of evolution would like to forget. A number of so call top evolutionary “scientists” made some outrageous claims that in hindsight look completely foolish. Obviously you know this was a ho-ho-hoax as well but one not exposed until 1953. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man
Then there was “Ramapithecus”, which was also once declared to be the ancestor of humankind. Today repudiated it is now considered to be a mere type of orangutan, an extinct type to be sure but certainly not a macro transitional form - just an ape, only an ape and nuthin but an ape.
So excuse me if I come into the case for macro level transitional forms with a bit of skepticism but maybe you can show us some honest to goodness believable transitional forms from the fossil record. Ball’s in your court!

All kidding & sarcasm aside I hope you have a good night Charles and may God bless you,
In Christ, Erchomai
 
To pick a few hoaxes and then claim that some how invalidates the rest makes no sense. By your reasoning all the other religions must invalidate yours since they are all fakes?

As for there being no transitional forms, EVERY fossil is a transitional form. What scientists are looking for is specific forms, like Ida for example that has the characteristics of a primate and an anthropoid. Hominid evolution is totally documented. talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html So i fail to see how you can claim to be up to date with the fossil record.

You then go on to talk about old science, and this is a favorite ploy of those who want to skip the evidence. Its nearly 2010, lets talk about modern science.

I think you should re-read my post for you completely skipped my main point, which was even if we had NO fossils we would still have overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution.
 
Many believe that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Yet, with the use of the scriptures, common sense and science, proof that
the earth is only about 6000 years old and that dinosaurs lived in the time of Adam and the great flood of Noah. First of all, let’s understand why man has mistakenly determined
the age of the earth. In the very first chapter of Genesis, it says that there was water above and below the firmament. Now upon
examination, it can be determined that firmament is heaven or atmosphere. According to God’s word, there was water above the firmament. So
how can this be proven? Let us examine preflood man. Man prior to the flood lived to be roughly around 900 years. We must ask ourselves what could cause man to live so long. Scientists have stated that the sun is the major factor in aging us. Now, if we put 2 and 2 together, the common sense answer to why man lived so long prior to the
flood is because they had extra protection from the sun. There was a body of water that surrounded the earth and gave it a greenhouse effect and it was this water that gave man much more protection from the sun. Now, scientists have used scientific principals based on the chemical makeup of the earth after the flood, yet, the chemical makeup of the earth was different which makes any test on material prior to the flood incorrect. What proof is there that the earth was chemically different prior to the flood is again common sense. If man had portection from the sun, so did all living things on the earth. The earth too, was protected from the toxic radiation from the sun and it is common sense that tells us that carbon dating cannot be
used to determine the age of the earth because of different chemical principals of two different earths, preflood and after flood. Now what about dinosaurs? What is a dinosaur? It is nothing more
then a reptile. Scientist have proven that as long as a reptile is living, it continues to grow. So, if we take an alligator and say it lives 100 years and grows 20 feet. What would happen if it were to live
900 years? It would have grown to be 180 feet, thus, a dinosaur. One more thing to think about the earht being in a bubble of water is that prior to the flood, man had never seen rain. That is why no one believed Noah when he said it was going to rain. At that time, the earth was watered by a mist. Another interesting thing to think about is the dramatic decrease in man’s lifespan after the flood. he began to age musch faster because he was being pelted by massive amounts of radiation from the sun. Just recently, scientists who use computers to solve unsolve crimes by taking the remains of bones to restructure and form a face of the bones were asked by creationists to do an experiment. Now, first we must understand that this forensic science has met with great success and is proven itself as reputible.
They were asked to take an average man and by comparing the physical changes in the lifetime such as bone structure and come up with a model of what man would look like if he lived to be close to 1000 years. Remarkably, around the 400 year mark, the image looked remarkably like that of Cro Magnum man and aroung the 800 year mark, man the image looked remarkably like Neanderthal man. Now, is this just coinsidence or is God’s word true. I believe the the world is just as the bible says, just around 6000 years old.
hahah you are delusional. the earth is 4.5 billion years old and humans did not exist at the same time as dinosaurs. this is a fact. Nor were there any dinosaurs on noah’s ark. please provide 1 verse naming the earth in the bible as 6000 years old? there is none. this whole idea is based on a highly ludicrous calculation made by a protestant who added the genealogies in the bible together and came to the conclusion that the earth was 6000 years old yet there is no verse indicating any such thing anywhere in the bible.

there is no evidence for the earth being 600 years old, in fact science goes directly against this. This is just a poor biblical interpretation. these guys are right. the bible is not a science book no matter what you protestants believe.

Seeing such delusions makes me glad I left Christian fundamentalism when I did.
 
there is no evidence for the earth being 600 years old, in fact science goes directly against this. This is just a poor biblical interpretation. these guys are right. the bible is not a science book no matter what you protestants believe.

Seeing such delusions makes me glad I left Christian fundamentalism when I did.
Zlatan, you will find a lot of it here, including geocentrism!
 
hahah you are delusional. the earth is 4.5 billion years old and humans did not exist at the same time as dinosaurs. this is a fact. Nor were there any dinosaurs on noah’s ark. please provide 1 verse naming the earth in the bible as 6000 years old? there is none. this whole idea is based on a highly ludicrous calculation made by a protestant who added the genealogies in the bible together and came to the conclusion that the earth was 6000 years old yet there is no verse indicating any such thing anywhere in the bible.

there is no evidence for the earth being 600 years old, in fact science goes directly against this. This is just a poor biblical interpretation. these guys are right. the bible is not a science book no matter what you protestants believe.

Seeing such delusions makes me glad I left Christian fundamentalism when I did.
You laugh now, but if it was not so sad, I could say I would have the last laugh. You see, most who choose to believe the world don’t believe in God or know God. I know God and I know his Word is true, thus knowing that most in this world will spend eternity in torment. So I can’t laugh, because I love you and do not want you to live eternity in torment.

You must understand that this life on earth is like a mist that is there and gone. Eternity is forever and forever is a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, etc, etc, etc, time.
 
You must understand that this life on earth is like a mist that is there and gone. Eternity is forever and forever is a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, etc, etc, etc, time.
No, eternity is not a long time. By definition eternity is outside time, so it’s not “long” at all.
 
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