The 60s called and they want their bad music back

[bmadamsberry]

To me, BOTH are wrong. The crucifix is going out of the sanctuary and “America the Beautiful” is not a Catholic hymn. We have a lot of people not from the United States and there are other venues to hear patriotic songs. A Catholic Church should stick to hymns, before, during and after Mass.

But the Church lives within a society and a culture. I’m not arguing for extremist nationalism, or placing the American flag (or even the Vatican flag) into the sanctuary, but outside of Mass why not?

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

But the Church lives within a society and a culture. I’m not arguing for extremist nationalism, or placing the American flag (or even the Vatican flag) into the sanctuary, but outside of Mass why not?

The recessional is still within the context of the Mass. Yes, the Mass is technically over after the final blessing, but we are still in church and should be singing songs about God ONLY while in church. America the Beautiful and God Bless America are not about God whatsoever. Sure, they may make mention of Him passingly, but they are not religious songs and they are not about God.

When the choir sings America the Beautiful is the only time my wife and I will leave before the recessional is over.

 

[MissRose73]

At the memorial day Mass I went to today, we had the following songs:

America (opening)
How Great Thou Art (offertory)
Sacrament Most Holy (communion)
Battle Hymn of the Republic (recessional)

I have no issues with patriotic songs done for major US holidays. I have no idea if other nations do the same for their major holidays in churches or not.

Some hymns and songs make me cringe, others don’t bother me. Makes me wish I had the EF Masses closer to me as they stick with mostly Catholic traditional hymns and Gregorian Chant.

 

[ringil]

How Great Thou Art (offertory)

Catholics sing this? I thought this was an Evangelical song.

 

[Irishgal49]

Gag.

I agree but am fortunate. We sang very traditional hymns.

 

[MissRose73]

Catholics sing this? I thought this was an Evangelical song.

I have no idea about the origin of the song to be honest. Then again, I am not the musical director.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Catholics sing this? I thought this was an Evangelical song.

As long as a song is theologically correct, I don’t see an issue with singing a song written by a protestant composer. Even the St. Michael Hymnal has a song in it written by Martin Luther, if I recall correctly. And Thomas Tallis, for example, composed some English polyphony that was used by the Church of England.

 

[jmcrae]

Motion :extrahappy:Seconded.:heaven:
:angel1::grouphug:
:harp:

And jmcrae yells out “Aye” (Right hand raised high!)

 

[bmadamsberry]

The recessional is still within the context of the Mass. Yes, the Mass is technically over after the final blessing, but we are still in church and should be singing songs about God ONLY while in church.

What about songs about Mary? Or what about songs about the saints?

Songs about Mary and the Saints are, if they’re good ones, are really songs about G-d. Our understanding of Mary and the Saints is only Catholic if that understanding furthers our understanding of G-d.

So, when we sing songs about Mary and the Saints, at the heart of it all we are praising G-d for His gift of these people. So, too, when I sing songs during the recessional, I am praising G-d for His gift of this country.

Again, I don’t see this as extreme nationalism (I actually believe that extreme nationalism is a heresy, but that’s neither here nor there). I this as a song of thanksgiving and, ultimately, one of praise.

Nevertheless, I understand your disagreement with singing those songs during and around Mass. I understand and respect that position, because I think it’s a justifiable one and one that is valid.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Hands up those of you who sang Carey Landry’s “The Spirit Is A-Moving” this morning.

I’ve never heard of that hymn. And I was Church organist for many years (nobody else would do it). Could it be that I have repressed some horrible memory?

I *do *remember Come, Holy Ghost.

I would have listened to anything yesterday. I wasn’t able to go to Mass & I haven’t been for months. I don’t care about the music anymore. I don’t even care that the choir pronounces “cherubim” as “cherAbim.” I just want to go to Mass!

 

[LittleSoldier]

What about songs about Mary? Or what about songs about the saints?

Songs about Mary and the Saints are, if they’re good ones, are really songs about G-d. Our understanding of Mary and the Saints is only Catholic if that understanding furthers our understanding of G-d.

So, when we sing songs about Mary and the Saints, at the heart of it all we are praising G-d for His gift of these people. So, too, when I sing songs during the recessional, I am praising G-d for His gift of this country.

Again, I don’t see this as extreme nationalism (I actually believe that extreme nationalism is a heresy, but that’s neither here nor there). I this as a song of thanksgiving and, ultimately, one of praise.

Nevertheless, I understand your disagreement with singing those songs during and around Mass. I understand and respect that position, because I think it’s a justifiable one and one that is valid.

I miss the old hymns about Mary (Daily, Daily Sing to Mary is one of my favorites (both versions)). I know there were a lot of hymns about Mary but I can only think of that one and the mangled version of *Salve Regina *that the choir at my church “sings.”

 

[bmadamsberry]

I miss the old hymns about Mary (Daily, Daily Sing to Mary is one of my favorites (both versions)). I know there were a lot of hymns about Mary but for some reason I can only think of that one right now. It’s a beautiful hymn.

I do as well. It seems that we only get those songs about Mary on her feast days. I’m not for singing about Mary at every Mass (or at most Masses), but more often then feast days would be nice.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I do as well. It seems that we only get those songs about Mary on her feast days. I’m not for singing about Mary at every Mass (or at most Masses), but more often then feast days would be nice.

When I was growing up we honored Mary during the entire month of May. And I just remembered another hymn: Oh Mary, We Crown Thee with Blossoms Today. I don’t know if that’s the title or just the first line.

We always ended with either *Tantum Ergo *or *O Salutaris Hostia *so I think the emphasis was back on God at the end of Mass. But I would have no problem with a hymn in honor of Mary at every Mass. I think that by honoring His mother, we honor Jesus. I think Jesus would like that.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

What about songs about Mary? Or what about songs about the saints?

Songs about Mary and the Saints are, if they’re good ones, are really songs about G-d. Our understanding of Mary and the Saints is only Catholic if that understanding furthers our understanding of G-d.

So, when we sing songs about Mary and the Saints, at the heart of it all we are praising G-d for His gift of these people. So, too, when I sing songs during the recessional, I am praising G-d for His gift of this country.

Again, I don’t see this as extreme nationalism (I actually believe that extreme nationalism is a heresy, but that’s neither here nor there). I this as a song of thanksgiving and, ultimately, one of praise.

Nevertheless, I understand your disagreement with singing those songs during and around Mass. I understand and respect that position, because I think it’s a justifiable one and one that is valid.

A country and a saint are two completely different things. I’m honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I don’t think they are the same at all. Like you said, a song about a saint is, in essence, a song about God because it is through Him they lived their life. With something like America the Beautiful, there is nothing about God whatsoever in the song (“God shed His grace on thee” really doesn’t count).

 

[LittleSoldier]

A country and a saint are two completely different things. I’m honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I don’t think they are the same at all. Like you said, a song about a saint is, in essence, a song about God because it is through Him they lived their life. With something like America the Beautiful, there is nothing about God whatsoever in the song (“God shed His grace on thee” really doesn’t count).

I agree. I would feel a bit uncomfortable singing even America the Beautiful. I think I would want to cheer at the end. Go! Rah! Go!

 

[bmadamsberry]

Tantum Ergo

or *Oh Salutaris Hostia *so I think the emphasis was back on God at the end of Mass.

Like I said earlier, even if G-d is not mentioned once during the entire song, it’s still G-d centered at the heart of it.

Mary and the Saint, and really anything else that we give thanks or praise for, is like a stained glass window. It is only via the Sun (see what I did there, lol) that the window is beautiful. Whether we think to ourselves “you know, the sun is what is making that window beautiful,” or whether we think to ourselves “boy, that stained glass window is pretty,” we are still recognizing and acknowledging that the Sun is the true source of the beauty.

So, whether we mention G-d in a song or not, we are in the end singing about G-d.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Like I said earlier, even if G-d is not mentioned once during the entire song, it’s still G-d centered at the heart of it.

Mary and the Saint, and really anything else that we give thanks or praise for, is like a stained glass window. It is only via the Sun (see what I did there, lol) that the window is beautiful. Whether we think to ourselves “you know, the sun is what is making that window beautiful,” or whether we think to ourselves “boy, that stained glass window is pretty,” we are still recognizing and acknowledging that the Sun is the true source of the beauty.

So, whether we mention G-d in a song or not, we are in the end singing about G-d.

Then we could sing any song in Mass and it would be appropriate.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Then we could sing any song in Mass and it would be appropriate.

No, of course not. I don’t know how Highway to Hell is, in anyway, a song of thanksgiving or praise. America the Beautiful, however, could be construed as a song of thanksgiving and one of pride. I am proud of my country, and I thank G-d for the gift of being born here. Is this the primary meaning? No, but I do think that it may serve as partial justification for singing it. Singing the song after Mass has ended would allow for the song to appeal to both emotions without worry of urging extreme nationalism.

 

[ringil]

What about songs about Mary? Or what about songs about the saints?

Songs about Mary and the Saints are, if they’re good ones, are really songs about G-d. Our understanding of Mary and the Saints is only Catholic if that understanding furthers our understanding of G-d.

So, when we sing songs about Mary and the Saints, at the heart of it all we are praising G-d for His gift of these people. So, too, when I sing songs during the recessional, I am praising G-d for His gift of this country.

Again, I don’t see this as extreme nationalism (I actually believe that extreme nationalism is a heresy, but that’s neither here nor there). I this as a song of thanksgiving and, ultimately, one of praise.

Nevertheless, I understand your disagreement with singing those songs during and around Mass. I understand and respect that position, because I think it’s a justifiable one and one that is valid.

I believe Catholics can write/ type the word God. G-d is a Jewish thing.

 

[bmadamsberry]

I believe Catholics can write/ type the word God. G-d is a Jewish thing.

Indeed, we can. It’s my own personal action. I do it in order to constantly remind myself of Whom it is that I am speaking.

I did, indeed, pick it up from a Jewish friend.