The Acton Institute: Bravo

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Thank the heavens that some posters actually understand the difference between slander and detraction and don’t go around convicting others of a serious sin which does not apply to any post whatsoever on this thread (of course, if it did - they could point that post out, but they will not as they will find that impossible - and surely they will just keep firing their own drive-by slanders I’m sure).

That is quite amusing coming from you.

 

[30miller]

Response - another drive-by! What a surprise.

 

[St_Francis]

O.J. has said in public years ago that he would never rest until he found Nicole Brown Simpson’s killer. So, who don’t we believe him and let him out of prison to complete this great work and service to mankind? C’mon, he said it - that means we should believe it!

Fr Sirico backed it up with action. He returned to the Church and became a priest–no matter whether he should have been ordained or not.

OJ Simpson was judged not guilty. He had several years to find the killer and as far as I know, did nothing. Why should we let him out of prison now when he is there for a different crime, one committed after his wife’s murder?

 

[St_Francis]

Why would you assume any such thing??? That’s mainly what you have done in your posts - you just “assume” various positions and from them make judgements.

Well, I actually make *my *assumptions based on actual evidence. I’m not saying I’m right, I’m just saying that given the actual evidence in hand, I assume…

Sirico was illicitly ordained and for some cosmic reason you just assume that he is 100% candid with his “confessor”…???

I assume that because he wanted to become a priest that he was candid, yes. And this would be because I have no evidence to the contrary. I was being kind about the CW brief, what little I was willing to admit could constitute evidence is actually just hearsay and would not be admissible in a court of law.

 

[30miller]

I was being kind about the CW brief, what little I was willing to admit could constitute evidence is actually just hearsay and would not be admissible in a court of law.

I’m sorry, I somehow missed it - your law degree (canon law which is actually in play here - or otherwise) is from where?

 

[St_Francis]

I’m sorry, I somehow missed it - your law degree (canon law which is actually in play here - or otherwise) is from where?

Have you read the brief? One does not have to be a lawyer to see that there is only one reference made to current wrongdoing, and that one is anonymous hearsay.

You have obviously been convinced by this, or maybe you have additional information which I lack. I have said what I have to say, and doubt that you and I will even come to any sort of agreement on this topic, given only the information at hand.

 

[30miller]

…One does not have to be a lawyer to see that there is only one reference made to current wrongdoing, and that one is anonymous hearsay.

You have obviously been convinced by this, or maybe you have additional information which I lack. I have said what I have to say, and doubt that you and I will even come to any sort of agreement on this topic, given only the information at hand.

Hmmmm, hmmmm - in your previous post you said “…what little I was willing to admit could constitute evidence is actually just hearsay and would not be admissible in a court of law…” . Now you follow that with your post above where I guess you are saying that you are not really a lawyer and that you just made all that lawyer-speak up. So, in making whatever your points are - why don’t you just skip the comments in the first place about “rules of evidence”, “what constitutes hearsay”, and “admissibility requirements” in your “court of law” (whatever court that is). It would save a lot of time and rebuttal.
Newsflash for you: this is a BLOG - not a “court of law”. You’re not a lawyer and neither am I. The Sirico Brief is in the real and legitimate court of canon law in Rome - and from my observation I’m certain you don’t speak for them - despite your legalistic mumbo-jumbo.
Sirico brought his made-up Acton Institute act to the World Over on EWTN again Friday night. It’s amazing the exposure just handed to this man. I can only say that I am amazed by it. With his English degree as his credentials and the made-up “Acton Institute” inferring some kind of gravitas backing him up somehow - he proceeded to say exactly nothing - on the topic of world events, etc. (for which he has no credentials either - and for which better commentators could be found on any street corner across America). He simply just agreed with Raymond Arroyo’s comments/questions straight up - or he took Raymond’s words, shuffled them around a little, and said them back to Raymond. I wish I could get a copy of that “performance” in writing - it would easily show that he offers nothing whatsoever to the conversation. It was a complete waste of time watching it. What a waste of the World Over as well - what used to be a great show. I can only guess that Sirico hangs around D.C. ready to go on the show at the JPII center at a moment’s notice when they can’t get anyone else or someone else cancels. Raymond would easily be 50 times better doing the show alone in those cases as he is an extremely bright guy.

---

 

[St_Francis]

Hmmmm, hmmmm - in your previous post you said “…what little I was willing to admit could constitute evidence is actually just hearsay and would not be admissible in a court of law…” . Now you follow that with your post above where I guess you are saying that you are not really a lawyer and that you just made all that lawyer-speak up. So, in making whatever your points are - why don’t you just skip the comments in the first place about “rules of evidence”, “what constitutes hearsay”, and “admissibility requirements” in your “court of law” (whatever court that is). It would save a lot of time and rebuttal.
Newsflash for you: this is a BLOG - not a “court of law”. You’re not a lawyer and neither am I. The Sirico Brief is in the real and legitimate court of canon law in Rome - and from my observation I’m certain you don’t speak for them - despite your legalistic mumbo-jumbo.

What, you have to be a lawyer to use the full range of vocabulary in your own language? You have to be a lawyer to use your common sense?

No, I am not a lawyer, but I do not have to be to see the problems in this so-called “brief,” which is itself a legal term, btw.

All I am saying is that 1. the issues that CW bring up have nothing to do with the public work that Fr Sirico is doing now; 2. my opinion that they are committing detraction by putting that collection of innuendos and unsubstantiated hearsay on the internet, and 3. if indeed he has been behaving this way, he should be disciplined by the Church.

Moreover, if CW were really interested in bringing a resurgence of the lavender mafia to our attention, then they would be writing more about other men involved in it. I cannot imagine why they would put this on the internet rather than simply informing those who need to know.

 

[30miller]

What … You have to be a lawyer to use your common sense?

 

[Robert_Bay]

NOTICE

Please discuss the issues, not each other

 

[qui_est_ce]

acton.org/

I caught part of The World Over last night w/ Father Robert Sirico, president of The Acton Institute. I was amazed to be listening a priest advancing the ideals of a free market society. I had never heard of The Acton Institute. Maybe the liberal bureaucrats who run so many diocese will be challenged; lack of welfare $ may not be the problem w/ our poor, socialized medicine is not the cure for the American patient, to be rich is not bad. He quoted Mother Teresa about class warfare and the rich saving the poor and the poor the rich. He was articulate and thoughtful. Wonderful!

There is an interesting article by Father Sirico in the Wall Street Journal
WSJ entitled

***The Pope on ‘Love in Truth’
Anyone seeking a repudiation of the market economy will be disappointed.

---

Father Sirico co-founded the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty in 1990. Acton is a non-profit 501(c) organization which promotes individual liberty through religious principles.

His credentials:

degree in Divinity from Catholic University in 1987

• Ordained a Catholic priest in 1990.
• served on the Michigan Civil Rights Commission from 1994 to 1998.
• Awarded honorary doctorate degree in Christian Ethics by Franciscan University
• His writings have appeared in New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, London Financial Times, Washington Times, National Catholic Reporter, and National Review.

Here’s what I believe bothers many
Father Sirico’s writings challenge the usual Catholic endorsement of activist government to solve social, economic, and moral problems. He maintains that Religious principles, require that men and women be free to practice virtue or vice, and freedom requires a limited government and a vibrant free-market economy.

He’s right, government cannot and should not solve our problems.

 

[St_Francis]

There is an interesting article by Father Sirico in the Wall Street Journal
WSJ entitled

***The Pope on ‘Love in Truth’
Anyone seeking a repudiation of the market economy will be disappointed.

---

Father Sirico co-founded the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty in 1990. Acton is a non-profit 501(c) organization which promotes individual liberty through religious principles.

His credentials:

degree in Divinity from Catholic University in 1987

• Ordained a Catholic priest in 1990.
• served on the Michigan Civil Rights Commission from 1994 to 1998.
• Awarded honorary doctorate degree in Christian Ethics by Franciscan University
• His writings have appeared in New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, London Financial Times, Washington Times, National Catholic Reporter, and National Review.

Here’s what I believe bothers many
Father Sirico’s writings challenge the usual Catholic endorsement of activist government to solve social, economic, and moral problems. He maintains that Religious principles, require that men and women be free to practice virtue or vice, and freedom requires a limited government and a vibrant free-market economy.

He’s right, government cannot and should not solve our problems.

I must say that I have learned quite a bit by listening to the audios at Acton, which are by Fr Sirico *and many others. *I am also reading Dr Thomas Sowell’s *Basic Economics, *which illustrates very clearly the backfiring of so many of our governmental policies, like how rent control causes people to have more trouble finding affordable housing.

 

[Mimi]

I’m not sure why Fr. Sirico and the non-Catholic Acton Institute are held up as someone/something to be listened to on anything. I have just listened to a podcast by Randy Engel on Culture Wars website about his background. It is astounding, to say the least. Stunningly, for example, Robert Sirico performed the 1st ever homosexual marriage in the U.S. - in Denver in 1975 - when he was a mail-order minister of some sect (not Catholic, although he had been raised Catholic). This fact is confirmed on several websites just by Googling. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Go to the Culture Wars site and listen for yourself.
As this is such recent news to me - I find myself at a loss as to why Raymond Aroyo features Sirico on EWTN frequently (I am certain I know what Mother Angelica would do if she knew Sirico’s background) and am equally at a loss as to Fr. Zuhlsdorf quoting him so extensively here (Fr. Z writes a great column in the Wanderer on what the prayers of the Mass “really say” vis-a-vis their latin originals).

I just found this thread.

I got curious about just who Lord Acton was & decided to check him out. I had seen Fr Sirico on The World Over show many times & usually found his opinions to be fairly sensible (politically conservative). However, I was dismayed (to say the least) that the wikipedia article said Lord Acton was a dissident (of his time).

That was some months (maybe even more than a year) ago. Today, I ran across this article, critical of The Acton Institute:
distributistreview.com/mag/20…ocial-thought/

Is the Acton Institute a Genuine Expression of Catholic Social Thought?
Catholic Social Teaching, Economics — Posted by Thomas Storck on July 4, 2011 6:30 AM

blupete.com/Literature/Biographies/Philosophy/Acton.htm

Though a lifelong Catholic, his beliefs did not jibe with the characteristic doctrines of Catholic orthodoxy. Acton was one of a group of Catholics labeled, "Liberal Catholics."9 They were critical of the church in respect to its authoritarian organization (specifically, the Infallibility of the Pope10), and critical too of its past history (as for example: the Index, the Inquisition and the Massacre of St. Bartholomew11). Much of Lord Acton’s writings dealt with these matters. His positions were to get him into difficulty with Rome and he came very close to being excommunicated, indeed, his mentor, Dr. Dollinger, did get excommunicated.

From the Storck article:

Liberalism, as that term is used in papal teaching, and indeed in Europe and throughout most of the world, is that movement in Western civilization which arose in opposition to the Christian political and economic order of the Middle Ages, and to the continuation of that order by all or most European governments even after the Middle Ages ended. Thus these governments believed that they had duties toward God, including that of caring for the poor and seeing that the economy fulfilled its function of supplying all citizens with the material things needed for this life. Certainly these governments fulfilled their duties imperfectly, but none of them would have denied that it had such a duty.

I wonder if Raymond Arroyo would respond if anyone wrote him as to why he continues to have Fr Sirico on as a guest in light of the Storck critique? I would guess it is not likely.

Mimi

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

No Bravo from I.
I agree entirely with what Mimi said.

These homosexual dissident priests need to be rooted out of the Church, they are causing abomination and harm to many people.

They are the people who the governor of Maryland Martin O’Malley addresses at the New Ways Ministry Conference in Baltimore, which was founded by these dissidents, most of whom are NEVER excommunicated by the Church. They are the ones giving license to the actions of the State to attempt to destroy religious freedom.

 

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