The Alien Phenomina

[djames99]

I have been reading about David M Jacobs Phd. study of the alien abduction phenomina, and about the work he did to collect an honest data base of the experiences of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens. He seems sincere in this. He doesn’t come across as someone who is trying to make a name for himself or trying to profit on the alien bandwagon as most have done.

 [ufoabduction.com/research.htm](http://www.ufoabduction.com/research.htm)

 He has much to lose in supporting this topic, which to most borders on fantasy and delusion. 

 At his site, he tells of the experiences of his patience, who's stories seem to follow a set pattern. The individuals have no contact with each other and they for the most part are deeply depressed and fearful after years of being selected out for experiments by these aliens.

 These beings are carrying out sperm and egg collection procedures in order to create hybrid creatures stored in artificial glass like wombs, and they have perfected the process which obviously took hundred of years. They force people through these procedures thru telepathic control and stimulate artificial sexual desires. They sometimes allow an involuntary sexual act between strangers to facilitate the breeding procedure.       

 These creatures are far more advanced technologically than we are, and have mastered time travel and the laws of science. Their physique is exactly what you would expect for a being of advanced intelligence who has become unaccustomed to physical tasks. It would seem that their physique can no longer provide for procreation of their own judging by their actions on earth, and their weak and spindly lower regions.  

 The problem is that if these creatures have been allowed by God's grace to take tens of thousands of years to develop at their leisure to where they are now in technology, how  is it they were given the grace to do so?. No creator seems to have been guiding,scolding and smiting these into their future, and driving home that they need to glorify their creator. They show no fear of the Divine. Subjects who try to interrupt the telepathy with prayer do not witness the aliens exhibiting any inhibitions,hesitations,piety or pangs of conscience when they do so. It's has if they consider it as anything else unique to human existence, a crutch or necessity just for us. Evidence indicates they progressed without the slightest need for a God in their lives.

 But why is the human story encapsulated, with all it's lessons learned, in just say eight thousand years?. What was the rush for us, when these creatures have carte blanche to populate and progress without hindrance?. Their operating table experiments show they have no sensitivity to human suffering, even if it is because we are deserving as intelligent beings. God surely would have told the universe that they are in the presence of creatures created in God's image, and the degrees of nobility, thus a dignity

which we have been taught still applies. The evidence shows that we are animals to them. It would seem that they have been playing the “Nazi doctor” for eons.

 So an official notice by the Church that they do indeed exist is not just some simple readjustment of our existence and beliefs in the grand scheme of things, that now encompass the aliens, but a situation that begs real pressing answers only God could answer. You could hear a pin drop on that day when all is revealed. 

For instance it questions...... Why the urgency for us? Why was the test bed so much easier for them? Why was there no calling them to account for their treating the universe like animals, while they were rewarded by probably hundreds of thousands of years of uninterrupted joy in experimentation and exploration, and not one temple in sight?. Why do we not see evidence or receive the impression of tension, showing they have adversarial groups influenced by the Holy Spirit that called them to reform their lives?.   

 Christ said he has other worlds, and most think now that he meant physical worlds. If so, it will be interesting to see how our world played into the grand scheme.

 I'm just supposing of course on speculative evidence. But the questions can still be asked now if indeed it turns out to be true.

 

[Bradski]

Was there any correlation between abductees and IQ?

 

[Gliggle]

What you have done is constructed a reality and then asked philosophical questions about it. This is fun and is called science fiction.

 

[Gliggle]

I just wanted to add a bit more because my comment may have sounded dismissive and that wasn’t my intention, here’s my reasoning:

God made all of creation, it holds many mysteries. Possibly even intelligent aliens, but I tend to believe that people who believe they have been abducted by aliens are affected by psychosis, and correlations between their experiences occur due to the highly influential nature of cultural ideas and images and the mass media, in influencing the forms some psychosis takes. This is the view most commonly held by the medical establishment, who actually already acknowledge that correlations occur. Schizophrenic patients for instance often have delusions of being followed by the CIA. This does not mean the CIA has an intense interest in Schizophrenic people.

 

[BartholomewB]

Christ said he has other worlds, and most think now that he meant physical worlds.

I don’t recall offhand any saying of Jesus in which the word “worlds” appears, in the plural. What translation of the Bible are you using?

 

[friardchips]

I don’t recall offhand any saying of Jesus in which the word “worlds” appears, in the plural. What translation of the Bible are you using?

The OP is referring to the words: “My Kingdom is not of this world.” Thus assuming it must be another earth instead of understanding the spiritual realm.

To the poster who said that Science Fiction is fun - agreed.

The Church has made no such claim. There have (apparently) been reports that one or two Vatican scientists might have said that it is not inconceivable to think there might be alien life forms but this depends on whether you believe the media hasn’t (yet again) adjusted quotes from Vatican City to fit an agenda in order to create mass hysteria.

 

[BartholomewB]

The OP is referring to the words: “My Kingdom is not of this world.” Thus assuming it must be another earth instead of understanding the spiritual realm.

Ah, that clears up the mystery. Thank you. That means I now need to ask the OP a slightly different question:

Christ said he has other worlds, and most think now that he meant physical worlds.

Most who, or most ***what, ***think Christ meant physical worlds?

 

[Pat_Albertson]

The aliens have human-like faces, a feature which occurs only in chordates (creatures with backbones) and in the movable emotive form provided by facial muscles, only in primates. It is therefore highly unlikely that they evolved, else the people who report them would give very different descriptions.

I think the people who report such things are fantasy prone people, people who cannot properly distinguish between fantasy and reality. Fantasy prone people look and sound normal except for when they are reporting their fantasies as reality. They do not slobber, drool, lurch and stagger when they walk, or perhaps let their knuckles gently graze the ground as they walk. They look just as normal as anybody else, and dress just as normally as anybody else. They are indistinguishable from everybody else except for when they are reporting their fantasies as fact.

This is the question then: is there something there, or is there nothing there? I vote for the latter, nothing. There is nothing there and aliens who conduct experiments on humans simply do not exist. Alien abductions are products of human fantasy, nothing more.

 

[inocente]

Was there any correlation between abductees and IQ?

*"Dr. Clancy interviewed and conducted laboratory memory studies of over fifty volunteers who sincerely believed they were abducted. Her sense was that these people were not lying. Only one of her participants was psychotic. The rest were normally functioning people, most of who felt that the abduction experience, though harrowing, changed their lives for the better. The group included a physician, a librarian, a veteran, an MBA, a chef, a fitness instructor, a construction worker, Ivy Leaguers, geeks, housewives, teenagers, grandfathers and school teachers.

About the only personality characteristic the sample group had in common was schizotypy. People with schizotypy are more likely than others to be perceived as eccentrics, engage in magical thinking and experience perceptual distortions. For example, one might “sense” the presence of another person. They tend to interpret incidents and events as having a special and unusual meaning. They may be prone toward a belief in superstitions. While people with schizotypy are not psychotic, they have a greater likelihood than the general population to have close relatives with schizophrenia. Clancy concludes that “these people are not crazy. They tend to have unusual ideas, experiences, and beliefs – ones that don’t necessarily conform to mainstream social beliefs and tendencies. They believe not only in alien abduction, but also in things like ESP, astrology, tarot, channeling, auras, holistic medicine, and crystal therapy.” - psychminder.com/2011/11/10/alien-abduction/*

 

[djames99]

Was there any correlation between abductees and IQ?

Not that I know of. The selection seems random, but perhaps the commonality has not been found yet. What were you leading to?

 

[djames99]

I just wanted to add a bit more because my comment may have sounded dismissive and that wasn’t my intention, here’s my reasoning:

God made all of creation, it holds many mysteries. Possibly even intelligent aliens, but I tend to believe that people who believe they have been abducted by aliens are affected by psychosis, and correlations between their experiences occur due to the highly influential nature of cultural ideas and images and the mass media, in influencing the forms some psychosis takes. This is the view most commonly held by the medical establishment, who actually already acknowledge that correlations occur. Schizophrenic patients for instance often have delusions of being followed by the CIA. This does not mean the CIA has an intense interest in Schizophrenic people.

But we also cannot be selective to facts that simply make our point. The neighbors asked why in the wee hours of the morning the subject’s house was lit up from the inside by a blinding white light that remained lit for a long time. They asked him why there were so many beings, which they could not describe clearly, just standing and watching the house while this was happening.

Are they also schizophrenic?

Do you think self denial is also a possiblility?.

It would seem that they are not perfect, or, we are so less a threat that they don’t care about the loose ends they leave behind.

 

[djames99]

What you have done is constructed a reality and then asked philosophical questions about it. This is fun and is called science fiction.

I hope your right, because the reality will be either good news because it was revealed that God is an intrinsic part of their lives, thus leaving us with one method we can appeal to reason, or perish the thought, we are right.

 

[djames99]

*"Dr. Clancy interviewed and conducted laboratory memory studies of over fifty volunteers who sincerely believed they were abducted. Her sense was that these people were not lying. Only one of her participants was psychotic. The rest were normally functioning people, most of who felt that the abduction experience, though harrowing, changed their lives for the better. The group included a physician, a librarian, a veteran, an MBA, a chef, a fitness instructor, a construction worker, Ivy Leaguers, geeks, housewives, teenagers, grandfathers and school teachers.

About the only personality characteristic the sample group had in common was schizotypy*. People with schizotypy are more likely than others to be perceived as eccentrics, engage in magical thinking and experience perceptual distortions. For example, one might “sense” the presence of another person. They tend to interpret incidents and events as having a special and unusual meaning. They may be prone toward a belief in superstitions. While people with schizotypy are not psychotic, they have a greater likelihood than the general population to have close relatives with schizophrenia. Clancy concludes that “these people are not crazy. They tend to have unusual ideas, experiences, and beliefs – ones that don’t necessarily conform to mainstream social beliefs and tendencies. They believe not only in alien abduction, but also in things like ESP, astrology, tarot, channeling, auras, holistic medicine, and crystal therapy.” - psychminder.com/2011/11/10/alien-abduction/

That describes the scientists working on SETI, and the majority of those working in NASA, and especially during the conceptual age of rocketry. So what separates the visionary from the schizo-topic personality?. Should he be restrained from using his imagination, the ability to describe abstract ideas?. Superstitions sometimes turn out to be science not understood.

 

[djames99]

I don’t recall offhand any saying of Jesus in which the word “worlds” appears, in the plural. What translation of the Bible are you using?

I don’t have the exact quote in front of me, but “I have other kingdoms not of this world” is close. For a long time many thought this meant heavenly kingdoms of sorts, but now with the discovery of similar solar systems, many theologians(Sententia Tolerata) think he meant physical worlds.

 

[djames99]

Good discussion, thanks all!. It would seem I misquoted the verse.

 

[edwest2]

I have been reading about David M Jacobs Phd. study of the alien abduction phenomina, and about the work he did to collect an honest data base of the experiences of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens. He seems sincere in this. He doesn’t come across as someone who is trying to make a name for himself or trying to profit on the alien bandwagon as most have done.

 [ufoabduction.com/research.htm](http://www.ufoabduction.com/research.htm)

 He has much to lose in supporting this topic, which to most borders on fantasy and delusion. 

 At his site, he tells of the experiences of his patience, who's stories seem to follow a set pattern. The individuals have no contact with each other and they for the most part are deeply depressed and fearful after years of being selected out for experiments by these aliens.

 These beings are carrying out sperm and egg collection procedures in order to create hybrid creatures stored in artificial glass like wombs, and they have perfected the process which obviously took hundred of years. They force people through these procedures thru telepathic control and stimulate artificial sexual desires. They sometimes allow an involuntary sexual act between strangers to facilitate the breeding procedure.       

 These creatures are far more advanced technologically than we are, and have mastered time travel and the laws of science. Their physique is exactly what you would expect for a being of advanced intelligence who has become unaccustomed to physical tasks. It would seem that their physique can no longer provide for procreation of their own judging by their actions on earth, and their weak and spindly lower regions.  

 The problem is that if these creatures have been allowed by God's grace to take tens of thousands of years to develop at their leisure to where they are now in technology, how  is it they were given the grace to do so?. No creator seems to have been guiding,scolding and smiting these into their future, and driving home that they need to glorify their creator. They show no fear of the Divine. Subjects who try to interrupt the telepathy with prayer do not witness the aliens exhibiting any inhibitions,hesitations,piety or pangs of conscience when they do so. It's has if they consider it as anything else unique to human existence, a crutch or necessity just for us. Evidence indicates they progressed without the slightest need for a God in their lives.

 But why is the human story encapsulated, with all it's lessons learned, in just say eight thousand years?. What was the rush for us, when these creatures have carte blanche to populate and progress without hindrance?. Their operating table experiments show they have no sensitivity to human suffering, even if it is because we are deserving as intelligent beings. God surely would have told the universe that they are in the presence of creatures created in God's image, and the degrees of nobility, thus a dignity

which we have been taught still applies. The evidence shows that we are animals to them. It would seem that they have been playing the “Nazi doctor” for eons.

 So an official notice by the Church that they do indeed exist is not just some simple readjustment of our existence and beliefs in the grand scheme of things, that now encompass the aliens, but a situation that begs real pressing answers only God could answer. You could hear a pin drop on that day when all is revealed. 

For instance it questions...... Why the urgency for us? Why was the test bed so much easier for them? Why was there no calling them to account for their treating the universe like animals, while they were rewarded by probably hundreds of thousands of years of uninterrupted joy in experimentation and exploration, and not one temple in sight?. Why do we not see evidence or receive the impression of tension, showing they have adversarial groups influenced by the Holy Spirit that called them to reform their lives?.   

 Christ said he has other worlds, and most think now that he meant physical worlds. If so, it will be interesting to see how our world played into the grand scheme.

 I'm just supposing of course on speculative evidence. But the questions can still be asked now if indeed it turns out to be true.

No proof of aliens exists. David Jacobs even called those who experienced what they thought were abductions “experiencers.” I have studied this subject for a long time. My point is: these people could be experiencing a number of psychological states but without any tangible evidence of “aliens.” Without attempting to offend, these people could be experiencing lucid dreaming or other psychological conditions where, for example, they have more than one personality. Having been hospitalized with other mentally ill individuals, I heard some amazing things. One patient sat down next to me one day and asked if I wanted to know the “secret history” of something. A few others told me about their intense belief that, in one case, he was totally convinced the person living above him in an apartment building was going to harm him.

Ed

 

[djames99]

How would you explain the supporting evidence?

A lady who was abducted one night met a neighbor the following day who said without prompting, “What was that intense white light that shone through your windows last night”. She also mentioned alien beings who stood and watched the house all the while.

How would you explain the epidermal insertion of intelligently formed tracing objects under their skin, made from metals that have no register to known metals on this planet.

After waking from a ‘sleep’, how would you explain the radiation burns on their extremities, or after dreaming of being skewed by an eye prob, have an eye injury in the same location?.

What of the missing zygote of those who have been diagnosed pregnant?

If we can exclude abductions, UFO incidences are even harder to rule out. Here we have police officers and jet pilots and reputable persons as witnesses. Just recently the past minister of defence for Canada admitted to aliens existing. During a clear day, a UFO was hovering stationary for almost an hour over a busy airport tower, and witnessed by security personell and over 100 people. Many such sightings have been made.

 

[ericc]

He doesn’t come across as someone who is trying to make a name for himself or trying to profit on the alien bandwagon as most have done.

 [ufoabduction.com/research.htm](http://www.ufoabduction.com/research.htm)

 He has much to lose in supporting this topic, which to most borders on fantasy and delusion. 

   <snip>

 The problem is that if these creatures have been allowed by God's grace to take tens of thousands of years to develop at their leisure to where they are now in technology, how  is it they were given the grace to do so?. No creator seems to have been guiding,scolding and smiting these into their future, and driving home that they need to glorify their creator. They show no fear of the Divine. Subjects who try to interrupt the telepathy with prayer do not witness the aliens exhibiting any inhibitions,hesitations,piety or pangs of conscience when they do so. It's has if they consider it as anything else unique to human existence, a crutch or necessity just for us. Evidence indicates they progressed without the slightest need for a God in their lives.

 But why is the human story encapsulated, with all it's lessons learned, in just say eight thousand years?. What was the rush for us, when these creatures have carte blanche to populate and progress without hindrance?. Their operating table experiments show they have no sensitivity to human suffering, even if it is because we are deserving as intelligent beings. God surely would have told the universe that they are in the presence of creatures created in God's image, and the degrees of nobility, thus a dignity

which we have been taught still applies. The evidence shows that we are animals to them. It would seem that they have been playing the “Nazi doctor” for eons.

 So an official notice by the Church that they do indeed exist is not just some simple readjustment of our existence and beliefs in the grand scheme of things, that now encompass the aliens, but a situation that begs real pressing answers only God could answer. You could hear a pin drop on that day when all is revealed. 

For instance it questions...... Why the urgency for us? Why was the test bed so much easier for them? Why was there no calling them to account for their treating the universe like animals, while they were rewarded by probably hundreds of thousands of years of uninterrupted joy in experimentation and exploration, and not one temple in sight?. Why do we not see evidence or receive the impression of tension, showing they have adversarial groups influenced by the Holy Spirit that called them to reform their lives?.   

 Christ said he has other worlds, and most think now that he meant physical worlds. If so, it will be interesting to see how our world played into the grand scheme.

 I'm just supposing of course on speculative evidence. But the questions can still be asked now if indeed it turns out to be true.

Does Jacobs have actual experience with an abduction himself? If not, then he is like any researcher studying the minds of a particular group of target population which has a common denominator. There are many classifications of mental conditions but he chose this particular field of study. Unfortunately his expertise is being a historian and not a medical specialist. He learn hypnosis and conduct them on his targets. Which would raise doubts as to the impartialness and effectiveness of his sessions. (I couldn’t find out how he learn his hypnosis knowledge, whether self-taught from books, or experts) In fact his thesis was on UFOs which subsequently was turned into a book. Hence, his approach would be different from conventional medical approaches. I don’t see much evidence that he rely on the expertise of medical specialists to sieve out the medical cases. I can’t detect his SOP on how he select and filter out his target subjects. I’d expect a panel of medical experts to filter out the medical cases first. Only when a medical explanation is not forthcoming would you speculate on UFO abduction. It is clear that there is a personal motive for him to continue with this line of research, being his thesis and rice bowl.

Perhaps there are traits that could lead to such claims

psychologytoday.com/blog/why-we-worry/201207/five-traits-could-get-you-abducted-aliens

And some possible explanations.
assap.ac.uk/newsite/articles/Mind.html

There are more modern tools that can be used to study such experiencers rather than those of the 70s. But Jacob is old-fashion using interviews and hypnosis sessions. And his books have moved on from just covering UFO controversies to stating aliens are among us in his latest “Walking Among Us: The Alien Plan to Control Humanity”. I’d love to see his proof.

 

[edwest2]

How would you explain the supporting evidence?

A lady who was abducted one night met a neighbor the following day who said without prompting, “What was that intense white light that shone through your windows last night”. She also mentioned alien beings who stood and watched the house all the while.

How would you explain the epidermal insertion of intelligently formed tracing objects under their skin, made from metals that have no register to known metals on this planet.

After waking from a ‘sleep’, how would you explain the radiation burns on their extremities, or after dreaming of being skewed by an eye prob, have an eye injury in the same location?.

What of the missing zygote of those who have been diagnosed pregnant?

If we can exclude abductions, UFO incidences are even harder to rule out. Here we have police officers and jet pilots and reputable persons as witnesses. Just recently the past minister of defence for Canada admitted to aliens existing. During a clear day, a UFO was hovering stationary for almost an hour over a busy airport tower, and witnessed by security personell and over 100 people. Many such sightings have been made.

I have almost all of the abduction books published from the 1950s on. I’m sure most readers here would not even know the names of these people if I made a list.

You have brought up two separate subjects: aliens and apparently solid but unexplained flying objects.

Regarding abductions, a film was released under suspicious circumstances that showed doctors operating on an alien corpse. Hollywood special effects experts were brought in to study the film. They concluded it would be no problem to fake everything done in it.

The “implants” have a simple explanation. They exist only because someone called them that. I’ve seen the photos of the implants. Anyone could fake that as well.

What certain government officials believe or were told is another special case. In the military world, these objects are very real, so real that “do not talk” orders have been issued. They went under the acronym JANAP, Joint Army Navy Air Publication. Those violating their provisions were at risk of being charged under Espionage Laws.They would later be expanded to include commercial pilots as well.

I wonder what I would do if I saw alien beings standing around a house.

Ed

 

[ericc]

ufoalienabductee.com/

And this is the danger that an hypnosis subject can be exposed to.

1. I was Jacobs’ research subject between 2004 through 2007, and he investigated my anomalous experiences using hypnosis.
2. During that time, Jacobs told me that he was in danger from “hybrids/aliens” because of his “alien abduction” research, and in my considered personal opinion, his behavior became quite strange.
3. Jacobs said that he also believed that those “hybrids/aliens” could read my mind (and the minds of other experiencers.)
4. Consequently, while Jacobs had me under hypnosis, he planted suggestions in my mind that I had Multiple Personality Disorder. He did this ostensibly to try to fool the “hybrids/aliens”, not because he really believed that I had MPD.
5. Jacobs ostensibly believed that the “hybrids/aliens” would read my mind, see that he had a new theory ‘that everyone telling abduction stories was actually suffering from MPD’, and that the “hybrids/aliens” would therefore lose interest in him.
6. Jacobs told me that he actually believed in “alien abduction”. He said that he believed that his life was in danger from the “hybrids/aliens” because he knew that they had a “secret” program to infiltrate Earth by using “hybrids” to blend into human society.
7. Jacobs was ostensibly trying to use my mind as a shield to protect himself from “hybrids/aliens”, whom he said he believed would use mind control on him, or even possibly kill him, to stop his “alien abduction” research.
8. I am of the opinion that Jacobs probably knew that he was not really in danger from “hybrids/aliens”, because I do not think that he would have put his family in danger to do his “alien abduction” research.
9. Jacobs did not ask my permission before he put the suggestions in my mind that I had MPD, and I did not know that he was going to do it.
10. I understood at the time that Jacobs’ suggestions were intended for the “hybrids/aliens” benefit, but because I was hypnotized, they still affected me.
11. After Jacobs had brought me out of the hypnotic state, he continued to reinforce to me that I must keep it in my mind, so that the “hybrids/aliens” would believe it.
12. I tried to deal with it by making light of it at the time, but it nevertheless frightened me.
13. Jacobs is not a medical doctor. He is a historian. Even if he had really believed that I had MPD, which he did not, he would not have been able to diagnose it.
14. Gary Haden published further information about Jacobs putting hypnotic suggestions in my mind that I had MPD, and his opinions about the issue, on his former Speculative Realms blog. He kindly allowed me to post a PDF archive of it here:

‘They’re On to Me: The MPD Game from Hello to Goodbye’, by Gary Haden – Speculative Realms (PDF)

1. In my considered personal opinion, Jacob’s actions were the self-absorbed and unethical actions of a researcher so involved in either his agenda, or fantasy world, that he lost total regard for my well-being, and had no concern for the injury and ramifications that those hypnotic suggestions might ultimately have on me.
2. This is not a character assassination of Jacobs. I am merely trying, in the only way that I know how, to make my story known, so that others will not suffer the same treatment from Jacobs, or from any other researchers.
3. Unfortunately, the phenomenon is still so suppressed by society, that there are few places people can turn to for help. There appear to be no effective regulations in place to protect vulnerable experiencers of the phenomenon. It seems as though word of mouth is the main protection that we have at this time.