B
- Status
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Neither to the whims of Christian faith. Don’t forget I said that too.I don’t think so.
Well, based on your answer above, God by His omnipotence, could be born of a woman. As you said, he is not subject to Jewish belief.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
A
alan1941
Guest
A
alan1941
Guest
W
w_stewart
Guest
Ah the envious exalted the person they were envious with? That defies common sense.
And yes, the Pharisees addressed Jesus as Rabbi and Master and yet they worked hard to pin him down.
And yet the Jews openly asked for his death.
W
w_stewart
Guest
The point is, you presented nothing to support your hypothesis. End of the story, I guess.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**The gospel writers were envious of the Jewish leaders.Ah the envious exalted the person they were envious with? That defies common sense.
And yes, the Pharisees addressed Jesus as Rabbi and Master and yet they worked hard to pin him down.
And yet the Jews openly asked for his death.
The Pharisees never worked to pin Jesus down. This is a psychological transfer of the Pauline anger towards the Pharisees as if it were in Jesus. Paul never wanted anything more than to start Christianity in Israel and eventually transfer his headquarters from Antioch to Jerusalem. The Pharisees in general and the Nazarenes in particular never allowed him that wish. Then, a few Christians in Israel would gather in family houses. Paul died without ever having seen a church in Israeli soil.**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Mine are not hypotheses but paraphrases of Scriptural evidences.The point is, you presented nothing to support your hypothesis. End of the story, I guess.
W
w_stewart
Guest
The gospel writers were envious of the Jewish leaders.
Really?
The apostles were persecuted by the Jewish leaders. Stephen was stoned to death by the Jews.
Your argument defies logic.
The Pharisees never wanted Christian organization to flourish in the Jewish territories as this was a threat to their egos and pride.
It is ironic that te people who call themselves a people of God (an egoistic claim, anyway), were so insecure to the point of wiping out any potential threat.
W
w_stewart
Guest
Distorted pharaphrasing, you mean?
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**Stephen’s alleged stoning never happened for three reasons: First, you claim that the Jewish leaders did not execute Jesus because they had lost that power to the Romans. Then, all of a sudden they executed Stephen. That’s a contradiction. Second, the Sanhedrin did not work that disorganized in the function of an execution. And third, the speech of Stephen was too Christian, when Christianity had another 15 years to come about with Paul. Your argument is too full of contradictions.Really?
The apostles were persecuted by the Jewish leaders. Stephen was stoned to death by the Jews.
Your argument defies logic.
The Pharisees never wanted Christian organization to flourish in the Jewish territories as this was a threat to their egos and pride.
It is ironic that te people who call themselves a people of God (an egoistic claim, anyway), were so insecure to the point of wiping out any potential threat.
The Pharisees never wanted a Christian organization in Israel because it would introduce idolatry and Greek Mythology into the Country.
We don’t call ourselves a People of God. The Bible does. Have you read the Bible lately? It might be good to you to do that.**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Perhaps if you are looking at it through the lenses of the Church. But if you decide to look at it through your own lenses, perhaps not.Distorted pharaphrasing, you mean?
Y
yermanyonda
Guest
Hi Ben
I must admit, I have never heard a Militant Jew , like yourself, before. I have found most Jewish people that I have met over the years to be very tolerant people, who respect Christians though they disagree with them. They do not have any problem integrating into Western Society at all and in ordinary secular activity they are, generally, indistinguishable from Christians; my own Accountant is such an individual. This is unlike many Muslims who do seem to have some difficulty integrating ( no disrespect intended ).
However when I read the ‘material’ that you have posted here it does, to say the least, raise the hackles somewhat; I really do not think that you are doing Judaism any favours in launching such a blistering and unfounded attack on Christianity.
Who is this ’gentleman’ Mr Hinnerman; I can find no references to him anywhere. I have tried to ‘google’ his name but came up with nothing.
I understand that this ‘story’ was first circulated by a Roman militant anti-Christian; which was blatant disinformation against Christians at the time.( as noted in post 6 by ‘The Questioner’).
With regard to your references to the Bible: people have abused the Bible for years to misquote passages out of context to support their extremist views. For instance Gen 9:27, Gen 11, Acts 12:26 has been used, out of context, to support the ideas of slavery, segregation and apartheid in society. That is why, in my opinion, The Pope and The Magisterium is so important to interpret the Bible correctly ( no disrespect intended to non-Catholics).
With regard to the passage from the Gospel that you quote: Mark 7:24 KJV ‘…and entered into an house and would have no man know it: but He could not be hid…’ Jesus was quite well known at the time and often took time out for reflection and prayer as He did in His time in The desert, and in The garden of Gethsemane prior to His arrest. If you read the whole passage He did so here as well until He was discovered by ‘… a certain woman, whose daughter had an unclean spirit…’
So I really think you should rethink your position Ben.
Where does this anti-Christian attitude come from, by the way, Ben. My own view about why the Jewish people rejected Jesus is that He wasn’t what they were expecting; simple as that. I, personally, am quite tolerant of all mainstream religions; I think, generally, they are a good thing in society; though we disagree; Catholic and Protestant, Jew and Muslim; the alternative is chaos. But it cannot be allowed for extremists to sow seeds of division between people.
M
mark_a
Guest
Ben, I gotta admit you keep things lively on these forums.
Are you a fan of Roswell, the 2nd biggest conspiracy of all time?
Are you a fan of Roswell, the 2nd biggest conspiracy of all time?
A
authenticity
Guest
If we weren’t distorting it as you say, what is the correct image of Judaism?
Here’s what I see: a small Middle Eastern ethnic group that believes that they are the chosen people of God by birth, created to rule over all other people. Is this true or not? I am not trying to bait you here. Where is it in your law that you should care about anyone outside of the Jewish nation?
The innovation brought on by Christianity is that the “chosen people of God” is by faith instead of by birth, which rests on the divinity of Jesus. This is the real importance of the virgin birth… it was a spiritual birth, the same way all Christians are ‘born’.
The relationship of the chosen people of God and those that have not accepted the faith (at least in theory) is prompted by including those people in salvation instead of excluding and ruling over them.
A
alan1941
Guest
Luther was right about what? Certainly not justification by faith alone! The Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church, unless I am mistaken are in agreement that we are saved by grace through faith & works.
A
alan1941
Guest
Ben, what do you think of those who say there is no archaeological evidence of the Exodus? Is this not the foundational myth of Judaism which legitimizes the state of Israel and if it is not a factual event, then where is the legitimacy of Israel?
B
Benadam
Guest
Exactly.
Revelation of the Incarnation could not be proclaimed from the mouth of anyone. Who could believe such a thing? A very intimate revelation required a very intimate relation with the revelator. Anna and Simeon were and part of the community forming around the Incarnation. A community by necessity hidden within the community of Jews.
That’s the dynamics of human life responding to revelation.
- Status