The Altar Rails Came Back

[LilyM]

I can see from Lily’s double posts that I’m not the only one having problems tonight. Maybe we should focus our attention on praying to help the Forums repell the assault?

For me, heh, I made my first Communion in 1957. I have never received Communion in the hand nor will I ever do so. All this back and forth begs the question of there are still people of my parent’s generation alive and, from the tenor of some of the posts throughout the forums, there are still people of my generation who don’t agree with throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the late 60s.

I suppose I could kneel on the floor. It’s not the same as kneeling at a Communion rail with a padded kneeler. At my age, if I went down on my knees on the bare floor, Father would have to extend a hand to help me up.

Haha … no problems with the forum, brother, I just compulsively edit my posts sometimes, and I accidentally hit the ‘quote’ button rather than ‘edit’ this time without noticing

 

[brotherhrolf]

Hmm, I’m having problems with “server not found” messages tonight.

 

[kim3260]

Hmm, I’m having problems with “server not found” messages tonight.

Not with this formun but I notice you are from Louisiana, if you have Bell South DSL I been having some problems too.

 

[palmas85]

Where I am there is a parish that celebrates the Novus Ordo reveretly, and uses the altar rails, with about 85% revecing on their tounge and 15% in their hands.I have been to masses there with about 500 parishoners(about the parishes capacity) and how the logistics works is that the rail is split in two by the gates, with a priest or deacon(and on rare occasion an instituted acolyte from a religous order) “man” each of the rails and distribute communion. The laity all go to the center asile of the parish and kneel at the altar rail, while the next pew behind them stands right behind the row that is kneeling, when that row has recieved, the next row comes forwars and kneels. It is all shockingly efficent, as communion for 500 parishoners, albiet under one species) took only 10 minuites.

There are some parishes such as the Assumption Grotto in Detroit that distributes communion via intinction, and they use the altar rail as well.

500 parishners, my friend you won’t impress anyone on this forum with those numbers:tsktsk: We’re up to approximately 10,000 or so on other posts and climbing steadily. You slackers up there in Ohio better get with the program.

Mega Church baby, thats where its at these days:thumbsup:

 

[Unfinished]

500 parishners, my friend you won’t impress anyone on this forum with those numbers:tsktsk: We’re up to approximately 10,000 or so on other posts and climbing steadily. You slackers up there in Ohio better get with the program.

Mega Church baby, thats where its at these days:thumbsup:

haha. I have done both sizes. 4000 families was my last parish.

But I left, for a host of reasons, but I much prefer my 250 family parish now. (And not just because we celebrate the Latin Mass )

The smaller parishes always seem more appealing to me.

 

[Unfinished]

500 parishners, my friend you won’t impress anyone on this forum with those numbers:tsktsk: We’re up to approximately 10,000 or so on other posts and climbing steadily. You slackers up there in Ohio better get with the program.

Mega Church baby, thats where its at these days:thumbsup:

haha. I have done both sizes. 4000 families was my last parish.

But I left, for a host of reasons, but I much prefer my 250 family parish now. (And not just because we celebrate the Latin Mass )

The smaller parishes always seem more appealing to me.

 

[a_cermak]

At the Episcopal Church I attend, we have an altar rail. Sometimes we go up and kneel at it to receive. When that is done they work both species by having the priest or deacon (only ordained does the Host) with the Host* and a couple steps behind, the Eucharistic Minister with the Wine*. The Communicant may receive in hand or on tongue while kneeling. Unless the person has a balance problem, it is not difficult to kneel while using your hands to receive.

Othertimes we receive what I call Catholic style (priest & deacon up front with Host* and EMs to the side with Wine*.)

Thus far, there seems to be no real pattern to which is chosen.

*: which we believe to be Body and Blood both.

 

[LilyM]

500 parishners, my friend you won’t impress anyone on this forum with those numbers:tsktsk: We’re up to approximately 10,000 or so on other posts and climbing steadily. You slackers up there in Ohio better get with the program.

Mega Church baby, thats where its at these days:thumbsup:

What, you think it’s impossible for a Catholic Church to exist that has a megachurch-size congregation?

Shame on you :tsktsk:!

You should be praying for the day when ALL Catholic Churches are packed to the rafters with devout folks every Sunday (and for that matter every other day too)

 

[palmas85]

What, you think it’s impossible for a Catholic Church to exist that has a megachurch-size congregation?

Shame on you :tsktsk:!

You should be praying for the day when ALL Catholic Churches are packed to the rafters with devout folks every Sunday (and for that matter every other day too)

Not at all my friend. What I do doubt is the increasing claims of how many people actually show up in relation to the Churchs’ registered number of parishners. For instance, there was once a claim made that over 80% of those registered at a particular parish showed up every Sunday. Masses were packed to the rafters, you could not even move inside the Church it was packed so densely. This was to validate a claim that Extraordinary Ministers were direly needed. I checked into it, there was enough info available to track down where the Church was and it turned out their weekly attendance at Mass was between 25 and 30% of those registered at the parish, or about 300 per Mass, far from being the huge number claimed, in excess of 1,000 per Mass.

Thats all. A bit of sarcasm aimed at those who knowingly inflate numbers to promote their own cause, usually Extraordinary Ministers, not at the poster I was responding to who made what looks to be a factual post concerning attendance at his Church.

Sarcasm, my friend, sarcasm.

 

[AJV]

Pax tecum!

Not always. For example, in the Middle Ages when rood screens were in churches, they were what seperated the sanctuary from the nave. The Communion rail was inside the sanctuary. Personally, I wish rood screens would make a comeback, too (as well as high altars and Communion rails).

In Christ,
Rand

RandAlThor,

In a mediaeval cathedral there would have been many screens. One screen separated the nave from the choir and was called the pulpitum- a sort of chancel screen. This was a solid-ish screen with a single entrance that closed off the high altar. It would have looked a little like this:



Between the High Altar and the choir, there was another screen variously termed as the altar screen, sanctuary screen or presbytery screen. This can be seen below- a not very clear picture though.

http://www.vvm.com/~cdhoit/St.Davids_inside_cathedral.jpg

On the other side of the pulpitum would have been the Rood screen in the nave. This was however, not very like the Rood Screens one is used to seeing. It had two doors at the two ends. It usually provided a backing for the altar meant for the laity-this altar may have also been placed in some places in the loft. It was termed as the Rood Altar, or the Jesus Altar, or was dedicated to a special patron saint (e.g. a national saint, or Our Lady of 7 sorrows- though usually the dedication to our Lady was not done since she had “her” altar in the Lady chapel.) The Rood screen is shown below and if you look very closely you can seen the original two doors.

http://www.stalbanscathedral.org.uk/photos/nave.jpg

I had a perfect picture of the arrangement but I go on losing the link. It would have looked a bit like this though, with 2 doors on either side of the altar.



In smaller parish churches, a single screen fulfilled all these. However, the arrangement one sometimes sees in Anglican churches is where the altar screen is replaced by an altar rail between the choir and the altar, and there is a chancel- cum-rood screen separating the choir from the nave. This screen is also an open screen.

 

[AJV]

Pax tecum!

Not always. For example, in the Middle Ages when rood screens were in churches, they were what seperated the sanctuary from the nave. The Communion rail was inside the sanctuary. Personally, I wish rood screens would make a comeback, too (as well as high altars and Communion rails).

In Christ,
Rand

RandAlThor,

In a mediaeval cathedral there would have been many screens. One screen separated the nave from the choir and was called the pulpitum- a sort of chancel screen. This was a solid-ish screen with a single entrance that closed off the high altar. It would have looked a little like this:



Between the High Altar and the choir, there was another screen variously termed as the altar screen, sanctuary screen or presbytery screen. This can be seen below- a not very clear picture though.

http://www.vvm.com/~cdhoit/St.Davids_inside_cathedral.jpg

On the other side of the pulpitum would have been the Rood screen in the nave. This was however, not very like the Rood Screens one is used to seeing. It had two doors at the two ends. It usually provided a backing for the altar meant for the laity-this altar may have also been placed in some places in the loft. It was termed as the Rood Altar, or the Jesus Altar, or was dedicated to a special patron saint (e.g. a national saint, or Our Lady of 7 sorrows- though usually the dedication to our Lady was not done since she had “her” altar in the Lady chapel.) The Rood screen is shown below and if you look very closely you can seen the original two doors.

http://www.stalbanscathedral.org.uk/photos/nave.jpg

I had a perfect picture of the arrangement but I go on losing the link. It would have looked a bit like this though, with 2 doors on either side of the altar.



In smaller parish churches, a single screen fulfilled all these. However, the arrangement one sometimes sees in Anglican churches is where the altar screen is replaced by an altar rail between the choir and the altar, and there is a chancel- cum-rood screen separating the choir from the nave. This screen is also an open screen.

 

[AJV]

Pax tecum!

Not always. For example, in the Middle Ages when rood screens were in churches, they were what seperated the sanctuary from the nave. The Communion rail was inside the sanctuary. Personally, I wish rood screens would make a comeback, too (as well as high altars and Communion rails).

In Christ,
Rand

RandAlThor,

In a mediaeval cathedral there would have been many screens. One screen separated the nave from the choir and was called the pulpitum- a sort of chancel screen. This was a solid-ish screen with a single entrance that closed off the high altar. It would have looked a little like this:

http://www.request.org.uk/main/churches/tours/canterbury/pulpitum.jpg

Between the High Altar and the choir, there was another screen variously termed as the altar screen, sanctuary screen or presbytery screen. This can be seen below- a not very clear picture though.

http://www.vvm.com/~cdhoit/St.Davids_inside_cathedral.jpg

On the other side of the pulpitum would have been the Rood screen in the nave. This was however, not very like the Rood Screens one is used to seeing. It had two doors at the two ends. It usually provided a backing for the altar meant for the laity-this altar may have also been placed in some places in the loft. It was termed as the Rood Altar, or the Jesus Altar, or was dedicated to a special patron saint (e.g. a national saint, or Our Lady of 7 sorrows- though usually the dedication to our Lady was not done since she had “her” altar in the Lady chapel.) The Rood screen is shown below and if you look very closely you can seen the original two doors.

http://www.stalbanscathedral.org.uk/photos/nave.jpg

I had a perfect picture of the arrangement but I go on losing the link. It would have looked a bit like this though, with 2 doors on either side of the altar.



In smaller parish churches, a single screen fulfilled all these. However, the arrangement one sometimes sees in Anglican churches is where the altar screen is replaced by an altar rail between the choir and the altar, and there is a chancel- cum-rood screen separating the choir from the nave. This screen is also an open screen.

 

[Indyann]

Solution:

1. Stop the practice of letting laity, other then servers, in the sanctuary.
2. Tell the faithful to stop standing and grabbing the host, and recieve reverantly for a change.

This is one of the most uncharitable posts, I have read in quite awhile!

How dare you insinuate that those of us who, faithful to the Magisterium, “grab the Host” and recieve irreverantly.
I am probably old enough to be your Grandmother, and I assure you that I have never grabbed the Host. Perhaps, when you gain a little maturity and wisdom, you will realize that it makes no difference if you stand, kneel, or are lying in a hospital bed it is still the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord.

 

[palmas85]

This is one of the most uncharitable posts, I have read in quite awhile!

How dare you insinuate that those of us who, faithful to the Magisterium, “grab the Host” and recieve irreverantly.
I am probably old enough to be your Grandmother, and I assure you that I have never grabbed the Host. Perhaps, when you gain a little maturity and wisdom, you will realize that it makes no difference if you stand, kneel, or are lying in a hospital bed it is still the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord.

Quite often the true intent of the poster comes up when the word uncharitable is used to put someone down. For some reason, the modern thinkers, not all, but many of them see the word uncharitable as being absolutely the worst thing you can call someone or say about them. I don’t really understand why they see it as such a terrible thing, but to each his own…

Because it is as you said the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord, then you probably, no definitely should receive reverently, devoutly and with humility. Yes it does make a difference how you receive. Sorry that fact escapes you.
.

 

[ncjohn]

Yes it does make a difference how you receive. Sorry that fact escapes you.
.

Yes, it does make a difference to the extent that it is reverent, but NOT as to whether we stand or kneel, or receive in the hand or on the tongue, or lying in a hospital bed or wheeled up in a wheelchair.

The post cited was indeed WAY out of line in its implications and accusations and is not in line with Church teachings, whether we happen to agree with them or not.

Sorry that fact escapes you.

 

[Brain]

Aside from my personal biases regarding the the hows ifs and whens of use of old altars and rails and other fixtures of older catholic churches, I think even if unused they should be kept intact. One thing that really makes me mad is when these beautiful historical things are removed needlessly not to make room for the renovation but simply to get rid of them. This is especailly true in cases where great lengths are taken to utterly destroy the altars and rails so that there is no chance some future priest might reinstall them if only for their aesthetic beauty.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Aside from my personal biases regarding the the hows ifs and whens of use of old altars and rails and other fixtures of older catholic churches, I think even if unused they should be kept intact. One thing that really makes me mad is when these beautiful historical things are removed needlessly not to make room for the renovation but simply to get rid of them. This is especailly true in cases where great lengths are taken to utterly destroy the altars and rails so that there is no chance some future priest might reinstall them if only for their aesthetic beauty.

I quite agree. I was hoping some photos of a recent event would have our railings included, but alas, the railings are hidden by people.

I will have to go into the church when the lights are on and start snapping. Maybe Friday.

 

[havemercy]

Railing would look odd in my parish. It would also get in the way of putting on Christmas concerts, Passion Plays, and talent shows.

Someone, anyone to cry with me?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Pax tecum!

I didn’t ask you to turn the question around on me.

You’re the only one allowed to ask questions? Well, then answer it. Why do you and Father Altier call it “taking” when “taking” is not even involved, but receiving it from the minister (priest, deacon or EMHC) into the hand?

If you don’t want to answer it, or more likely, if you guys cannot think of any reason that people should receive in the hand rather than on the tongue, then just say so. Other than “they used to do it a long time ago”. Well, they also used to use Greek and Latin and Gregorian chant and say Mass ad orientem a long time ago, too. Shouldn’t we go back to that too?

If you read any of my posts, you would know that my preferred method of reception is intinction. I sincerely would love to see one of those long-handled, ice tea spoon affairs introduced into Roman liturgy.

And my reasons for not having a problem with receiving in the hand are:
1.) As far as the Host goes, it keeps down germs.
2.) Individual Hosts should NOT be crumbling into pieces that can be seen with the naked eye and recognized as the Host.
3.) It is allowed to countries where it is practiced- Gee, even as the TLM is allowed by indult.

You confuse things on purpose, because it seems you want ALL reception of Communion your way, kneeling and on the tongue, when there is another approved way; in fact, standing and receiving in the hand is the approved form in the United States and Australia.

I don’t care how Catholics in a state of grace receive, as long as they do it reverently- standing, sitting, kneeling, in the hand, on the tongue.

I do care that this thread was about altar rails.

 

[boppysbud]

If things were the same as they were when I was a new convert way back in the early 70s I would have been delighted to kneel for Holy Communion.

But things have changed since I had a crippling stroke in august 2005. No way can I kneel, at a rail or in the pew, nor can I genuflect. If I did manage to get down to the floor, I wiuld never get back on my feet.

Back then 1975 we kind of thought V2 was a good thing, and not a thing to back away from. Some of us do not have such great memories of the silent Mass, when we had to say the rosary, because the Mass was the Preist’s private property, and we could not understand Latin, and did not care to learn.

Back in the good old days there actually were liberal Catholics who read the National Catholic Reporter, and we thought they were good, now so many Catholics think God is a registered Republinant, and wants to tell the poor to drop dead.

But I bet the gung-ho people who want to turn the calandar back to before V2, would be delighted to know that I do recieve Holy Communion on the tougue, since my right hand is to weak to trust it to hold up the Sacred Host.

Would you deny me Our Lord in Holy Communion since I am incapable of kneeling?