The "American Catholic Church"?

[elts1956]

I think I found the group you are speaking about. They are calling themselves the American Catholic ***Council ***not the American Catholic Church. They seem to be a reconstituting of VOTF with a few other dissident groups represented on their “council”.

Their declaration states “We seek reform of the governing structures in our Church so that they reflect the better aspects of the American experience.”

Besides being way in left field on their plans, they somehow think that turning our world-wide Church into an Americanized institution would be a good thing.

Yes, that’s the one. I stand corrected. Thank you. However, since I MUST get the last word in, there is a site (several sites?) who call themselves the American Catholic Church, or somehow have American Catholic in their title.

As far as this council I meant to talk about and you are speaking of, I think it is filled with dissidents very intent on causing a schism within the Catholic Church. Many will follow this organization because their “changes” fit right in with the "independent consciences"of the more liberal Catholics. I just wish there were someway to deflate their balloon. Since the public media ignores what the Church “really” says and those who stand up for her directives, I see that happening as much as seeing a snowball freezing in you know where.

Just look how often some Bishops here in the US have ignored what the Pope and Archbishop Burke have explicitly directed. They just toodle along right to the cliff.

 

[elts1956]

Yes, that’s the one. I stand corrected. Thank you. However, since I MUST get the last word in, there is a site (several sites?) who call themselves the American Catholic Church, or somehow have American Catholic in their title.

As far as this council I meant to talk about and you are speaking of, I think it is filled with dissidents very intent on causing a schism within the Catholic Church. Many will follow this organization because their “changes” fit right in with the "independent consciences"of the more liberal Catholics. I just wish there were someway to deflate their balloon. Since the public media ignores what the Church “really” says and those who stand up for her directives, I see that happening as much as seeing a snowball freezing in you know where.

Just look how often some Bishops here in the US have ignored what the Pope and Archbishop Burke have explicitly directed. They just toodle along right to the cliff.

A further thought on this American Catholic Council to be held in 2011. These are the types of people that play to bo and he plays to them. These are the Bidens, Sibelius, Pelosis etc. that bo has chosen to be “his” catholic forum. The devil is loose and I don’t mean bo.

 

[Corki]

Yes, that’s the one. I stand corrected. Thank you. However, since I MUST get the last word in, there is a site (several sites?) who call themselves the American Catholic Church, or somehow have American Catholic in their title.

As far as this council I meant to talk about and you are speaking of, I think it is filled with dissidents very intent on causing a schism within the Catholic Church. Many will follow this organization because their “changes” fit right in with the "independent consciences"of the more liberal Catholics. I just wish there were someway to deflate their balloon. Since the public media ignores what the Church “really” says and those who stand up for her directives, I see that happening as much as seeing a snowball freezing in you know where.

Just look how often some Bishops here in the US have ignored what the Pope and Archbishop Burke have explicitly directed. They just toodle along right to the cliff.

I agree with everything you said. In fact, if you look at the links section of the ACC site, it reads like a “who’s who of Catholic dissent”. Many of those organizations have ‘American Catholic’ in thier name or in thier ordination pedigree - the women priestesses especially.

The ACC has it’s annual meeting this week in Dallas. Now wouldn’t that be a fun party to crash? Know thy enemy and all that.

 

[elts1956]

I agree with everything you said. In fact, if you look at the links section of the ACC site, it reads like a “who’s who of Catholic dissent”. Many of those organizations have ‘American Catholic’ in thier name or in thier ordination pedigree - the women priestesses especially. Priestesses, yuck gag. Reminds me of an ancient matriarchal society.:bigyikes:
The ACC has it’s annual meeting this week in Dallas. Now wouldn’t that be a fun party to crash? Know thy enemy and all that.

Yep, forewarned is forearmed!! Oops, last word again, sorry.

 

[PadraigPearce]

I just wish there were someway to deflate their balloon…

There is a way, and it’s called World Youth Day, which I think will be happening around the same time or shortly thereafter. In Madrid, hundreds of thousands of young Catholics will be hanging out with the Pope. Meanwhile in America, several dozen aging dissidents with guitars on their backs will shuffle into the Detroit Holiday Inn, ready to bring on that new springtime in the Church that the evil conservatives have always held back. I imagine they’ll have workshops on liturgical dance and making felt banners, and then maybe a mass with giant puppets. I hope the Holiday Inn is wheelchair accessible.

 

[toastmachines]

I’m pretty sure the American Catholic Church was listed in “Call to Action, Call to Apostasy”. What on earth is liturgical dance? I’ve been to some different churches but none of them had any dancin that I can recall.

 

[elts1956]

I’m pretty sure the American Catholic Church was listed in “Call to Action, Call to Apostasy”. What on earth is liturgical dance? I’ve been to some different churches but none of them had any dancin that I can recall.

First the term “American Catholic Church” should be clarified as there ain’t no such animal. So which dissident group are you speaking of? Secondly “Call to Action” itself is a dissident/apostate group. Liturgical dance is another no no. People dancing in the aisles showing their “exhuberance” instead of showing piety and love of the Eucharist and understanding why they are there. The diocese of Archbishop/Bishop? Mahoney in CA is an example of a priest having gone really over the edge with this type of thing. Puppets of saints instead of statues. A diocese gone insane.

 

[RussellNavy]

I think this whole discussion is very intriguing. But I am hoping someone will be able to provide a definition of the term “church”. I look forward to having a meaningful discussion on this topic.

Thanks everyone.

God Bless

 

[elts1956]

I think this whole discussion is very intriguing. But I am hoping someone will be able to provide a definition of the term “church”. I look forward to having a meaningful discussion on this topic.

Thanks everyone.

God Bless

If you are talking about only the Catholic Church and those which in some way are in communion with her, for an introduction, read Pope John Paul II’s encyclical Evangelium Vitae for his explanation. That is the one I try to follow.

 

[7_Sorrows]

i believe there is an American Catholic Church which has formed and is not under the authority of Rome and is not recognized by Rome, and then i think there is what is to referred to as the American Catholic Church which is actually the Roman Catholic Church in America.
i only pray that the Catholics will not go through what the anglicans and the episcopalians went through in the last 10 years or more. in other words,
there will still be those Catholics who choose to remain under the authority of Rome, but there could also be splinter groups.

 

[toastmachines]

First the term “American Catholic Church” should be clarified as there ain’t no such animal. So which dissident group are you speaking of? Secondly “Call to Action” itself is a dissident/apostate group. Liturgical dance is another no no. People dancing in the aisles showing their “exhuberance” instead of showing piety and love of the Eucharist and understanding why they are there. The diocese of Archbishop/Bishop? Mahoney in CA is an example of a priest having gone really over the edge with this type of thing. Puppets of saints instead of statues. A diocese gone insane.

My bad, the book I was reffering to is called “Call to Action or Call to Apostasy? How Dissenters Plan to Remake the Catholic Church in Their Own Image” Brian Clowes, PhD.
In Appendix B Partial List of Dissenting Organizations, number two on the list is American Catholic Church.

For some reason I was picturing Liturgical dance as some sort of coreographed nonsense much like a half time show.

 

[elts1956]

My bad, the book I was reffering to is called “Call to Action or Call to Apostasy? How Dissenters Plan to Remake the Catholic Church in Their Own Image” Brian Clowes, PhD.
In Appendix B Partial List of Dissenting Organizations, number two on the list is American Catholic Church.

For some reason I was picturing Liturgical dance as some sort of coreographed nonsense much like a half time show.

It could be that too. Once never knows what one will see in some Churches calling themselves Catholic. Check out Archbishop? Bishop Mahoney’s teen Mass of this past spring. Yes, he packed the aisles, but did he teach any of the truths of the Church?

I’ll check out the book. Thanks.

 

[elts1956]

i believe there is an American Catholic Church which has formed and is not under the authority of Rome and is not recognized by Rome, and then i think there is what is to referred to as the American Catholic Church which is actually the Roman Catholic Church in America.
i only pray that the Catholics will not go through what the anglicans and the episcopalians went through in the last 10 years or more. in other words,
there will still be those Catholics who choose to remain under the authority of Rome, but there could also be splinter groups.

There are several Churches calling themselves, The American Catholic Church, which can be found all over the internet, but NONE have been approved by Rome. No, there is no such thing as the “American” Catholic Church. Do we have The Italian Catholic Church, The Mexican Catholic Church, The German Catholic Church? No. We have only one Catholic Church whose head is the Pope in Rome. The use of Italian, Mexican, German Catholic Church would be better spoken of as the Church in Italy, Mexico, Germany etc. The Catholic Church is UNIVERSAL in her teachings and beliefs. The Church in the U.S. does not believe differently than the Church in Italy, Mexico etc. They ALL hold the true dogmas and doctrines as taught by the Magisterium of the Church.

ThIs adminsitration and public liberal media are trying to make it appear as though the Church in the U.S. has different THEOLOGICAL issues than those truths held by our one true Church. This is not true. Theology is in the hands of the Magisterium who hold to the truths of the Church whose leader is now Pope Benedict XVI. . We may have different CULTURAL issues, but NOT THEOLOGICAL ONES although the secular news and politicians would want you to believe these exist.

I, for one, am very afraid that if this secular society has its way, there could be splinter groups which will not be recognized as part of the Catholic Church by Rome, but will add to the confusion of already confused Catholics we now see here in the States in regard to the Church.

 

[RussellNavy]

If you are talking about only the Catholic Church and those which in some way are in communion with her, for an introduction, read Pope John Paul II’s encyclical Evangelium Vitae for his explanation. That is the one I try to follow.

That’s not what I mean. There are an awful lot of posts here that refer to “The Church”. Until what people mean when using the term “The Church” is clearly defined for everyone it is difficult for this discussion to have any meaning. That is mostly because everyone does not use the same definition of church. So, what does everyone mean when they use the term Church? I’m certain not everyone uses the Pope’s definition when using the term.

Another question that I have about the “in communion with her” part of the response. Are we talking about being in communion with the catholic faith or do we mean being in communion with Father?

God Bless everyone.

 

[elts1956]

That’s not what I mean. There are an awful lot of posts here that refer to “The Church”. Until what people mean when using the term “The Church” is clearly defined for everyone it is difficult for this discussion to have any meaning. That is mostly because everyone does not use the same definition of church.?? So, what does everyone mean when they use the term Church? I’m certain not everyone uses the Pope’s definition when using the term.

Another question that I have about the “in communion with her” part of the response. Are we talking about being in communion with the catholic faith or do we mean being in communion with Father?

God Bless everyone.

Well you have certainly confused me. Since this is a Catholic forum and thread, I am assuming when people are talking about church they are talking about The Catholic Church. Unless they specify differently. ie. Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran etc. Anyone can jump in here.

Maybe it would be better if you gave a definition of what you mean by church.

When I say “being in communion with HER”, I am talking about the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is referred to in the female form.

 

[Corki]

That’s not what I mean. There are an awful lot of posts here that refer to “The Church”. Until what people mean when using the term “The Church” is clearly defined for everyone it is difficult for this discussion to have any meaning. That is mostly because everyone does not use the same definition of church. So, what does everyone mean when they use the term Church? I’m certain not everyone uses the Pope’s definition when using the term.

God Bless everyone.

Welcome to the forums. I guess it can be confusing when you are new and we casually use terms as if everyone understands. The answer to your question is that when we say ‘the Church,’ we generally mean the Catholic Church (all rites). But you have to check context and which forum it is posted in. Sometimes it is meant more narrowly (ie only the Latin Rite) and sometimes more broadly.

In this case, we are speaking of the Catholic Church (Latin rite). The site in the OP is a council of organizations that are in disagreement with the Church to various degrees. They are commonly know here as dissident or dissenting Catholic organizations. In most cases, they have remained in the Church organizational structure even if they claim differences with her on matters of doctrine or practice. The was some confusion earlier in the thread because there is a group that is called 'The American Catholic Church in the United States. This is a group that has been created as a split from the Old Catholic Church (in the 1990s) which itself separated from the Catholic Church in the 1870s. Neither the Old Catholics, nor the American Catholic Church in the US have any ties to the Catholic Church since the 1870s.

As I said, context is everything. You are here in the Traditional Catholicism forum and pretty much everything in this forum is about the Catholic Church - usually Latin rite but other rites are sometimes discussed here. The Pope’s definition of the Church is a very good start to understand what people in this forum mean by Church.

In some of the other forums you will encounter a broader use of church (usually not capitalized) - especially in the Non Catholic and Apologetics forums. Often that definintion includes all Christians and is the general use of the word, which means ‘universal’.

Another question that I have about the “in communion with her” part of the response. Are we talking about being in communion with the catholic faith or do we mean being in communion with Father?

When we use the term “in Communion with** her,**” we mean in communion with the Catholic Church. The Church is usually referred to with the feminine pronoun. This is the Church Jesus founded and is in communion with the Father as Jesus himself was. We are not “Father only” or “Jesus only” as some other faith traditions may be. We are solidly trinitarian.

Again, welcome. I hope this helps.

P.S. I see you are a new Catholic - double welcome. Even after RCIA there is much to learn. You might want to read some of the tracts on the Catholic Answers home page. They give a great overview of Catholic teaching and are a good starting point for questions.