The American Way is about Liberty and Limited Gov't, but the Catholic Way is about Submission and Total Government?

[Bartolome_Casas]

Pope Benedict XVI wrote these lines in his first encyclical, “God Is Love”:

“A personal relationship with God and an abandonment to His will can prevent man from being demeaned…”

Pope John Paul II spoke this: “Faith requires the full submission of intellect and will.”

Pope Pius X: “Hence it follows that to restore all things in Christ and to lead men
back to submission to God is one and the same aim.”

The key founding fathers who wrote America’s founding documents, the Declaration and the Constitutions of 1789, were, I believe, mostly Freemasons, or followers of the philosophy of the Enlightenment, and were not Catholics. These founders promoted the key American doctrines of personal economic Liberty (for Caucasians), Limited Government, and Religious Liberty.

But contrast, the Catholic Church has always promoted not personal Liberty, but total surrender to the will of God, and not the will of God as each person may decide on his own, but as revealed in the Word of God and the teachings of the Church. The Catholic Church teaches full and complete submission to the Word of God and the Magisterium of the Church. Thus, the Catholic Church teaches Total Government of God over Man, not Limited Government.

All this seems to be addressed in a letter by Pope Leo XIII. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testem_Benevolentiae_Nostrae

 

[markomalley]

Pope Benedict XVI wrote these lines in his first encyclical, “God Is Love”:

“A personal relationship with God and an abandonment to His will can prevent man from being demeaned…”

Pope John Paul II spoke this: “Faith requires the full submission of intellect and will.”

Pope Pius X: “Hence it follows that to restore all things in Christ and to lead men
back to submission to God is one and the same aim.”

The key founding fathers who wrote America’s founding documents, the Declaration and the Constitutions of 1789, were, I believe, mostly Freemasons, or followers of the philosophy of the Enlightenment, and were not Catholics. These founders promoted the key American doctrines of personal economic Liberty (for Caucasians), Limited Government, and Religious Liberty.

But contrast, the Catholic Church has always promoted not personal Liberty, but total surrender to the will of God, and not the will of God as each person may decide on his own, but as revealed in the Word of God and the teachings of the Church. The Catholic Church teaches full and complete submission to the Word of God and the Magisterium of the Church. Thus, the Catholic Church teaches Total Government of God over Man, not Limited Government.

All this seems to be addressed in a letter by Pope Leo XIII. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testem_Benevolentiae_Nostrae

Before asserting such ludicrous ideas, you really should consider another writing from Leo XIII, Libertas Praestantissimum

From this it is manifest that the eternal law of God is the sole standard and rule of human liberty, not only in each individual man, but also in the community and civil society which men constitute when united. Therefore, the true liberty of human society does not consist in every man doing what he pleases, for this would simply end in turmoil and confusion, and bring on the overthrow of the State; but rather in this, that through the injunctions of the civil law all may more easily conform to the prescriptions of the eternal law. Likewise, the liberty of those who are in authority does not consist in the power to lay unreasonable and capricious commands upon their subjects, which would equally be criminal and would lead to the ruin of the commonwealth; but the binding force of human laws is in this, that they are to be regarded as applications of the eternal law, and incapable of sanctioning anything which is not contained in the eternal law, as in the principle of all law.

You should also read Immortale Dei, in which Leo writes:

And yet a hackneyed reproach of old date is leveled against her, that the Church is opposed to the rightful aims of the civil government, and is wholly unable to afford help in spreading that welfare and progress which justly and naturally are sought after by every well-regulated State. From the very beginning Christians were harassed by slanderous accusations of this nature, and on that account were held up to hatred and execration, for being (so they were called) enemies of the Empire. The Christian religion was moreover commonly charged with being the cause of the calamities that so frequently befell the State, whereas, in very truth, just punishment was being awarded to guilty nations by an avenging God. This odious calumny, with most valid reason, nerved the genius and sharpened the pen of St. Augustine, who, notably in his treatise, “The City of God,” set forth in so bright a light the worth of Christian wisdom in its relation to the public wealth that he seems not merely to have pleaded the cause of the Christians of his day, but to have refuted for all future times impeachments so grossly contrary to truth. The wicked proneness, however, to levy like charges and accusations has not been lulled to rest. Many, indeed, are they who have tried to work out a plan of civil society based on doctrines other than those approved by the Catholic Church. Nay, in these latter days a novel conception of law has begun here and there to gain increase and influence, the outcome, as it is maintained, of an age arrived at full stature, and the result of progressive liberty. But, though endeavors of various kinds have been ventured on, it is clear that no better mode has been devised for the building up and ruling the State than that which is the necessary growth of the teachings of the Gospel. We deem it, therefore, of the highest moment, and a strict duty of Our apostolic office, to contrast with the lessons taught by Christ the novel theories now advanced touching the State. By this means We cherish hope that the bright shining of the truth may scatter the mists of error and doubt, so that one and all may see clearly the imperious law of life which they are bound to follow and obey.

And I do not believe that the founders would disagree with the above (provided they did not know its source, as not a few inherited the beliefs of the English). Look at John Adams, who said:

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

 

[exnihilo]

The key founding fathers who wrote America’s founding documents, the Declaration and the Constitutions of 1789, were, I believe, mostly Freemasons, or followers of the philosophy of the Enlightenment, and were not Catholics. These founders promoted the key American doctrines of personal economic Liberty (for Caucasians), Limited Government, and Religious Liberty.

But contrast, the Catholic Church has always promoted not personal Liberty, but total surrender to the will of God, and not the will of God as each person may decide on his own, but as revealed in the Word of God and the teachings of the Church. The Catholic Church teaches full and complete submission to the Word of God and the Magisterium of the Church. Thus, the Catholic Church teaches Total Government of God over Man, not Limited Government.

Only a free person can actually surrender his will to God’s will. That is the point of us having Free Will. If we were automatons then our following God’s will would not be a choice but a necessity. Therefore in order to actually surrender to God we *must *have liberty.

Regarding specific claims in your post I would point out that the United States were designed to not have a state church but it was most certainly founded upon Christian principles. Religious Liberty meant no state church or religious obligation. This was true only at the national level. Some of the states had state churches and religious tests and obligations before and after the formation of the United States. Also economic liberty was not limited to Caucasians. People had then and have now varying degrees of economic liberty. Slaves, by the nature of the institution, had less economic liberty but not no liberty. Women at various times had less liberty. Children to this day have less liberty and in fact less then they had at the founding of this nation.

 

[GratefulFred]

If the intent is to somehow imply that “full submission of intellect and will” to God is somehow equal to full submission to a government by men, then I must disagree.

Christ said render unto Cesear what is Caeser’s and unto God what is God’s. Christ is about eternal salvation regardless of our circumstances hereon earth.

Intellect and will are very important. The better we understand God’s desire for us, the easier it is to align our will with God’s Will. Ultimately we would have full knowledge of God’s Will for us and would willingly fully submit to it out of Love and common sense. No one is forced to submit.

I, for one, believe that if enough people understood God’s Will for us and acted accordingly, we would have much better government on this earth. The trick is knowing whether what we think and do is indeed God’s Will for us or just our will with a false claim that it is God’s Will.

When God’s Will is left out of our thinking except for the notion of “full submission” then we get things like Communism and Nazism.

 

[Dirt]

Furthering Pope Leo XIII on explaining the duties of Catholic citizens:

“The very times in which we live are warning us to seek remedies there where alone they are to be found – namely, by re-establishing in the family circle and throughout the whole range of society the doctrines and practices of the Christian religion. In this lies the sole means of freeing us from the ills now weighing us down, of forestalling the dangers now threatening the world. For the accomplishment of this end, venerable brethren, We must bring to bear all the activity and diligence that lie within Our power. Although we have already, under other circumstances, and whenever occasion required, treated of these matters, We deem it expedient in this letter to define more in detail the duties of the Catholics, inasmuch as these would, if strictly observed, wonderfully contribute to the good of the commonwealth. We have fallen upon times when a violent and well-nigh daily battle is being fought about matters of highest moment, a battle in which it is hard not to be sometimes deceived, not to go astray and, for many, not to lose heart. It behooves us, venerable brethren, to warn, instruct, and exhort each of the faithful with an earnestness befitting the occasion: that none may abandon the way of truth.”

Exerpt from SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE
papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13sapie.htm

is it not fascinating that a Document written in 1890 is still pertinant to this day? Gives one thought as to “Nothing new under the Sun”

 

[Newbie2]

Pope Benedict XVI wrote these lines in his first encyclical, “God Is Love”:

“A personal relationship with God and an abandonment to His will can prevent man from being demeaned…”

Pope John Paul II spoke this: “Faith requires the full submission of intellect and will.”

Pope Pius X: “Hence it follows that to restore all things in Christ and to lead men
back to submission to God is one and the same aim.”

The key founding fathers who wrote America’s founding documents, the Declaration and the Constitutions of 1789, were, I believe, mostly Freemasons, or followers of the philosophy of the Enlightenment, and were not Catholics. These founders promoted the key American doctrines of personal economic Liberty (for Caucasians), Limited Government, and Religious Liberty.

But contrast, the Catholic Church has always promoted not personal Liberty, but total surrender to the will of God, and not the will of God as each person may decide on his own, but as revealed in the Word of God and the teachings of the Church. The Catholic Church teaches full and complete submission to the Word of God and the Magisterium of the Church. Thus, the Catholic Church teaches Total Government of God over Man, not Limited Government.

All this seems to be addressed in a letter by Pope Leo XIII. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testem_Benevolentiae_Nostrae

I’d suggest some further reading on the notion of “free will”. I think you’re trying to compare secular goverment to the Almighty’s eternal law, and the two often do not mix.