The Amish?

[DebChris]

Anabaptists held the radical idea that an illiterate peasant who has received the gift of the Spirit is a better interpreter of scripture than a learned theologian who lacks the Spirit. The teaching that all believers are expected to discern the will of God was modified due to the questionable actions and prophesies of some individuals. Coming together as community, the process of congregational discernment provided controls on the interpretation of Scripture. It was Menno Simons, a Catholic priest who united the Anabaptists in 1536, emphasizing the life and words of Jesus Christ to measure Spiritural claims. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites.

 

[Sepharad]

Excommunication does NOT mean that people have to leave the house, that we cannot eat at table with them. It is a disciplinary exaction related to ecclesial issues. Shunning is FAR more extreme. You can’t even write the person a letter.

Very Orthodox Jews shun relatives who commit heinous sins in Judaism (such as apostasy or intermarriage). They will go so far as to regard the person as dead (mourn for them, and everything!) At least with the Amish, the person can repent and return.

They probably can in Judaism too, but I never heard of it happening. However, this is NOT Jewish law, its just something some very religious Jews do to express their displeasure of what the family member did. Fortunately it happens very rarely because Orthodox Jews hardly ever convert out or intermarry.

 

[Sepharad]

I love the way Catholics stand on their heads to deny their own history. I would be ashamed to belong to a church that has inflicted such suffering on other people as the Catholic church has.

The sufferings of the Anabaptists and their hideous tortures are common knowledge, at least to people who have an education.
The little girls were targeted because of their vulnerability and to a certain extent because of their ‘purity’. It seems pretty clear that the killer was intending to rape them. It was their isolation, as Amish, that made them targets.

If they were Catholics, believe me, you’d be calling them ‘martyrs’ and ‘saints’ and praying to them.

Look it up for yourself.

My sentiments exactly. I don’t want this thread to go off on a tangent, but my own Jewish ancestors survived the Sp Inquisition as conversos, and I have mentioned that fact several times on this forum.

When I did mention it, some Catholicsreacted as if it never happened, or tried to whitewash it…it reminded of the Holocaust revisionists who like to claim that the Nazis did not kill 6 million Jews, or that the Jews ‘died of typhus, not gas chambers’, or similar nonsense.

As the descendant of Spanish Jews who WERE persecuted by Catholic rulers, without much protest at all from the church (and who were assisted by the Dominican Order), it is very painful to hear modern-day Catholics speak as if my ancestors must have imagined it all.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Er, a simple reading of history shows that the original Anabaptists were radicals who had no qualms about using violence to achieve their ends.

Look up the history of the Anabaptist Kingdom of Muenster, if you ever get the time. Peaceful…ha.

 

[DebChris]

The Catholic Church does not deny the violence of the Reformation, by all parties involved. The OP asked about the Catholic view of the Amish. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ. While the Amish may believe in the “truth of the gospels as handed down by the Apostles,” they reject the authority of the pope and the transmission of these truths through apostolic lineage. They view Baptism as an outward sign of a person’s inner conversion rather than of the efficacy of the Holy Spirit. There are other differences. What we, as Catholics, share in common with the Amish and other Anabaptists is a sincere desire to follow Jesus Christ. Our lives serve as witness to this desire.

 

[1234]

Anabaptists held the radical idea that an illiterate peasant who has received the gift of the Spirit is a better interpreter of scripture than a learned theologian who lacks the Spirit. The teaching that all believers are expected to discern the will of God was modified due to the questionable actions and prophesies of some individuals. Coming together as community, the process of congregational discernment provided controls on the interpretation of Scripture. It was Menno Simons, a Catholic priest who united the Anabaptists in 1536, emphasizing the life and words of Jesus Christ to measure Spiritural claims. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites.

good show, Deb.

 

[1234]

My sentiments exactly. I don’t want this thread to go off on a tangent, but my own Jewish ancestors survived the Sp Inquisition as conversos, and I have mentioned that fact several times on this forum.

When I did mention it, some Catholicsreacted as if it never happened, or tried to whitewash it…it reminded of the Holocaust revisionists who like to claim that the Nazis did not kill 6 million Jews, or that the Jews ‘died of typhus, not gas chambers’, or similar nonsense.

As the descendant of Spanish Jews who WERE persecuted by Catholic rulers, without much protest at all from the church (and who were assisted by the Dominican Order), it is very painful to hear modern-day Catholics speak as if my ancestors must have imagined it all.

Good show, Seph.

I thought as much re your history, in that I thought that you might be Sephardic.

 

[1234]

Catholics who try to deny their past will only alienate the spiritual and literal descendants (!)–like Sepharad-- who suffered from that past.

To say, well, every did it then, is to deny this past. When the Catholic church was in power , it committed grave abuses, even according to the standards of the time.

True, Calvin burned Servetus. Well, that’s one. The Catholic church or its goods, including Mary I of England, burned and tortured thousands. Elizabeth I persecuted Catholic priests sneaking into England because they represented the (foolish) pope who excommunicated her and was encouraging Catholics to rebel and kill her–this translated as treason, which was a capital offense.

You can’t outlive the past. The expression, “Spanish Inquisition” is in the English language, as in “What is this, the Spanish Inquisition?” It will stay there for some time.

Germany knows this now. It will take centuries for Germany to live down its wars, especially Hitler, World War II and the Holocaust.

The Anabaptists, Amish and Hutterites keep all their memories alive. I think that you’ll find that many Protestants do, too.

 

[ibkc]

Catholics who try to deny their past will only alienate the spiritual and literal descendants (!)–like Sepharad-- who suffered from that past.

To say, well, every did it then, is to deny this past.

Well, no, it’s not. No one here is denying that Catholics did rotten things. But to do like you do, and make it sound like the source of ALL evil was the Catholic Church, is simply flat-out wrong. And frankly it makes you look like you learned history from watching bad B-movies.

I have ancestors who were persecuted by Catholics 500 years ago, just like our friend Sepharad. And since I have Irish in my background, I certainly have ancestors who were persecuted by the Protestant British. My family history is very well researched, so we know all this stuff. The difference is that I don’t obsessively carry grudges about events that are centuries old. That isn’t healthy. It leads to more violence when taken to an extreme, as we see time and again throughout history.

 

[water]

I like Amish’s lifestyle - simple!
My brother’s friend is an Amish and I got to visit them. Their house is very simple and the back and front yards are so nice and neat.

 

[FindTruth7]

All this consistent arguing is why I can’t submit myself to a specific religion. Whom do you trust? Who has the Truth? Everyone seems to make a good point, but disagrees with one another. This is why I am searching for Truth. If I know wha tit is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I shall never forsake it!

I know “Catholics” have done horrible, hideous things! But that doesn’t mean they are wrong, or bad every single time as many anti-Catholics put it. During the Spanish Inquisition a Catholic Bishop hide 300 Calvinists on his land from other crazed fanatic “catholics” who were trying to kill them. During the Reformation Thomas Moore also protested against the Church, but unlike Luther he didn’t want to break apart, only stop the abuses going on from within, because clearly, according to Catholic teaching, they were evil! The Catholic Church has done very good, humble things in times past and present, and among all the mumbo-jumbo sects of Christianity, I’d say the Catholic sounds the closest in Scripture and early Church history. Though I don’t agree with everything they teach or believe.

So far, those who inspir eme the most ar ethe Amish. I love it up here, so so awesome! So peaceful! Every time one goes by on their buggy I feel happy, at peace, with a desire to bow before them humbly out of respect. I drove by their farms today, talked to a few briefly and everyday just keeps getting more interesting.

This is how I felt when I read a biography on St. Francis of Assisi. I wish there were Catholic communities as the Amish, besides the radical points.

 

[mercygate]

All this consistent arguing is why I can’t submit myself to a specific religion. Whom do you trust? Who has the Truth? Everyone seems to make a good point, but disagrees with one another. This is why I am searching for Truth. If I know wha tit is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I shall never forsake it!

I know “Catholics” have done horrible, hideous things! But that doesn’t mean they are wrong, or bad every single time as many anti-Catholics put it. During the Spanish Inquisition a Catholic Bishop hide 300 Calvinists on his land from other crazed fanatic “catholics” who were trying to kill them. During the Reformation Thomas Moore also protested against the Church, but unlike Luther he didn’t want to break apart, only stop the abuses going on from within, because clearly, according to Catholic teaching, they were evil! The Catholic Church has done very good, humble things in times past and present, and among all the mumbo-jumbo sects of Christianity, I’d say the Catholic sounds the closest in Scripture and early Church history. Though I don’t agree with everything they teach or believe.

So far, those who inspir eme the most ar ethe Amish. I love it up here, so so awesome! So peaceful! Every time one goes by on their buggy I feel happy, at peace, with a desire to bow before them humbly out of respect. I drove by their farms today, talked to a few briefly and everyday just keeps getting more interesting.

This is how I felt when I read a biography on St. Francis of Assisi. I wish there were Catholic communities as the Amish, besides the radical points.

Try the Trappists! Of course, with that life you get the whole “poverty, chastity, obedience” package. But for my money, it would be worth it.

 

[FindTruth7]

I’m leaving Amish country tomorrow, kind of sad. It’s just so wonderful here. I went on a buggy ride the other day and witnessed much more Amish country. Even the resturaunt we ate at invited us to pray whatever prayer we wished before breakfast. That is something you get shunned at by the non-religious in NY.

How I wish I lived here, but the wife desires not to

 

[FindTruth7]

The other thing I’d like to say is that I feel a little sad because I desire to talk closely and spiritually with one of the Amish. I can picture myself getting into deep, respectful conversations with them about the Bible, Church history and life. But as I understand they’re very anti-individual, and while a quite friendly people, they’re not allowed to get “close” with an outsider or non-Amish. Oh well

 

[mercygate]

The other thing I’d like to say is that I feel a little sad because I desire to talk closely and spiritually with one of the Amish. I can picture myself getting into deep, respectful conversations with them about the Bible, Church history and life. But as I understand they’re very anti-individual, and while a quite friendly people, they’re not allowed to get “close” with an outsider or non-Amish. Oh well

When I used to spend more time at my house in Michigan, I was quite close to an Amish family. While we were not intimate, we shared many quiet moments together, sharing thoughts – mostly about Christian living. They always let my children wander around the farm and the children, who were bigger than mine, treated them like little sisters. Never does a Christmas go by that we don’t exchange catch-up letters. When I closed out the house to get it ready for a tenant, I gave my grandmother’s old treadle sewing machine to them. They cleaned it and outfitted it with new belts for their daughter-in-law. Made me feel good!

 

[FindTruth7]

When I used to spend more time at my house in Michigan, I was quite close to an Amish family. While we were not intimate, we shared many quiet moments together, sharing thoughts – mostly about Christian living. They always let my children wander around the farm and the children, who were bigger than mine, treated them like little sisters. Never does a Christmas go by that we don’t exchange catch-up letters. When I closed out the house to get it ready for a tenant, I gave my grandmother’s old treadle sewing machine to them. They cleaned it and outfitted it with new belts for their daughter-in-law. Made me feel good!

Wow, awesome, ok I understand. So one can have special moments with them. i didn’t know that. Awesome.

I just admire theeir lifestyle so much it makes me want to begin a community.

 

[mercygate]

Wow, awesome, ok I understand. So one can have special moments with them. i didn’t know that. Awesome.

I just admire theeir lifestyle so much it makes me want to begin a community.

Maybe the Lord is calling you to simplicity of life. I belong to a lay confraternity that requires simplicity of life . . . we do this in our own homes. We do not give up electricity but we definitely keep lowering the bar on “complications” – including wardrobe and “stuff.” WHAT a freedom!

 

[DebChris]

Wow, awesome, ok I understand. So one can have special moments with them. i didn’t know that. Awesome.

I just admire theeir lifestyle so much it makes me want to begin a community.

As posted earlier, there are covenant communities within the Catholic Church. There are lay orders and confraternities (see Mercygate’s post).
I lived in WI for a long time. While I did not have any close friendships with members of the Amish community, I entered into conversations with the Amish in the same way that I would enter into conversation with anybody else. In a store, when an Amish man was looking at post-its, I shared the story of how the inventor was looking for a way to mark the pages in his hymn book.
At an auction, I won the bid on a Queen Anne buffet. The Amish at the auction congratulated me on the good deal. I shared how I was planning to keep my table games behind the one door.

 

[Publisher]

Anabaptists held the radical idea that an illiterate peasant who has received the gift of the Spirit is a better interpreter of scripture than a learned theologian who lacks the Spirit. The teaching that all believers are expected to discern the will of God was modified due to the questionable actions and prophesies of some individuals. Coming together as community, the process of congregational discernment provided controls on the interpretation of Scripture. It was Menno Simons, a Catholic priest who united the Anabaptists in 1536, emphasizing the life and words of Jesus Christ to measure Spiritural claims. The Amish broke off from the Mennonites.

Good quote, the same idea was fostered by a young George Fox in England a hundred years later…the Society of Friends came to the same conclusion, God’s Word, the Light Within is the best interpreter of scripture through those who seek the Divine Will to determine how their lives are to be lived. The most unlearned among us who is filled with the Spirit and discerns with the Gathered Meeting can speak the Word in the Light better than one most learned who is void of Spirit.

Friends, Mennonites and Brethren have been called memebers of the “Radical Reformation” and “Historic Peace Churches”, the character of one’s life and how the gospel is lived in community is more important than doctrine and dogma. We may not be able to define the Incarnation in theological terms to anyone’s satisfaction, but we can certainly see the effects of the Incarnation lived out in community as we become the Body of Christ and become His Presence in our world.

 

[Publisher]

All this consistent arguing is why I can’t submit myself to a specific religion. Whom do you trust? Who has the Truth? Everyone seems to make a good point, but disagrees with one another. This is why I am searching for Truth. If I know wha tit is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I shall never forsake it!

I know “Catholics” have done horrible, hideous things! But that doesn’t mean they are wrong, or bad every single time as many anti-Catholics put it. During the Spanish Inquisition a Catholic Bishop hide 300 Calvinists on his land from other crazed fanatic “catholics” who were trying to kill them. During the Reformation Thomas Moore also protested against the Church, but unlike Luther he didn’t want to break apart, only stop the abuses going on from within, because clearly, according to Catholic teaching, they were evil! The Catholic Church has done very good, humble things in times past and present, and among all the mumbo-jumbo sects of Christianity, I’d say the Catholic sounds the closest in Scripture and early Church history. Though I don’t agree with everything they teach or believe.

So far, those who inspir eme the most ar ethe Amish. I love it up here, so so awesome! So peaceful! Every time one goes by on their buggy I feel happy, at peace, with a desire to bow before them humbly out of respect. I drove by their farms today, talked to a few briefly and everyday just keeps getting more interesting.

This is how I felt when I read a biography on St. Francis of Assisi. I wish there were Catholic communities as the Amish, besides the radical points.

You may enjoy the Hutterite communities…similar to Amish but they do not refuse to use “modern ways”…they live in community. My wife and I considered many years ago joining a Hutterite community in uperstate Montana…but life happened and some plans just can’t be brought to fruitition. It was the only time I considered joining another religious community instead of Friends…I could have held dual membership in the Wider Quaker Fellowship…but I would have had to submit to water baptism to join them.