The Anti-Catholic ABCs - "Anything But Catholic"

[Church_Militant]

Not here you didn’t. The only “Catholic,” according to the folks here, is one who believes exactly as they do.

Heck, most of the people in their own church are not even "Catholics."

Bunk! No evidence to support this statement nor do you have any authority to deny that this person or that is in communion with the Church.

You could have less substance to your comments, but it would be difficult for you to do so.

 

[mercygate]

I was going to posit it might be a function of geography, but your Romanian example blew that right out of the water.

Perhaps its simply the historical baggage of the Reformation carried over?

I will certainly root for the Romanian Orthodox Church to make converts of the Romanian Protestants in the meantime.

Yup. Evangelicals have made mighty inroads all over Eastern Europe – including Holy Mother Russia, where you would think the Name of Jesus had been well known and loved, despite the 70 year persecution of ALL religious expression. The Evangelicals got in there with Bibles and the Gospel message. Along with that comes the anti-Latin, anti-Papist baggage. But there is also a good deal of anti-Orthodox baggage among those who bothered to look at what those image-worshiping, ritual-bound, mumbo-jumboing Orthodox actually believe and teach.

When I teach my sixth grade CCD class, I can sympathize with people who think Catholics don’t know Jesus. My eleven/twelve-year olds have NO IDEA that prayer is about engaging the Person of Jesus Christ with the heart. I am at a loss for how to make this real for them ('nother thread).

 

[Teflon93]

Yup. Evangelicals have made mighty inroads all over Eastern Europe – including Holy Mother Russia, where you would think the Name of Jesus had been well known and loved, despite the 70 year persecution of ALL religious expression. The Evangelicals got in there with Bibles and the Gospel message. Along with that comes the anti-Latin, anti-Papist baggage. But there is also a good deal of anti-Orthodox baggage among those who bothered to look at what those image-worshiping, ritual-bound, mumbo-jumboing Orthodox actually believe and teach.

For me, the preferences are clear:

 

[mercygate]

Teflon93:

For me, the preferences are clear:

Better Protestant than atheist.

Better Orthodox than Protestant.

Better Catholic than Orthodox.

Hopefully the evangelicals in Russia are spending more time bringing Christ to those who do not know him than trying to pry those who do out of their communities.

Don’t count on it. For some of them, the distinction does not exist.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Not here you didn’t. The only “Catholic,” according to the folks here, is one who believes exactly as they do.

Heck, most of the people in their own church are not even “Catholics.”

…

Yes, but I worry about my name being inscribed in heaven.

Not cyberspace.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I was going to posit it might be a function of geography, but your Romanian example blew that right out of the water.

Perhaps its simply the historical baggage of the Reformation carried over?

I will certainly root for the Romanian Orthodox Church to make converts of the Romanian Protestants in the meantime.

Actually, they’re doing a good job on the American Evangelicals sent to Romania to “convert the pagans.” One of the priests at the Romania cathedral is one.

 

[Atemi]

Yes, but I worry about my name being inscribed in heaven.

Not cyberspace.

Ha!

Totally agreed.

Very wise, Isa. I like that response lots.

I may save it…

…

 

[Atemi]

I will certainly root for the Romanian Orthodox Church to make converts of the Romanian Protestants in the meantime.

Anything but Romanian Protestants.

You sit in judgment on your own thesis.

…

 

[Atemi]

Better Catholic than Orthodox.

Hopefully the evangelicals in Russia are spending more time bringing Christ to those who do not know him than trying to pry those who do out of their communities.

Yet what is your church doing to convert the Orthodox? Where are they taking steps to bring the poor EOs to the “better” and out of heresy?

I see that you would have no problem if your church pried a little there. Ahhhh.

It seems you have no issue if the RCs or the EOs convert Evangelicals, but you have a problem with Evangelicals converting RCs and EOs.

Yet again, you sit in judgment on your own belief system. This is hypocrisy.

It is not any prying that you have a problem with…it is who is doing the prying. How sweet.
…

 

[mercygate]

Yet what is your church doing to convert the Orthodox? Where are they taking steps to bring the poor EOs to the “better” and out of heresy?

I see that you would have no problem if your church pried a little there. Ahhhh.

It seems you have no issue if the RCs or the EOs convert Evangelicals, but you have a problem with Evangelicals converting RCs and EOs.

Yet again, you sit in judgment on your own belief system. This is hypocrisy.

It is not any prying that you have a problem with…it is who is doing the prying. How sweet.
…

Even if you disagree with the Orthodox and Latin position, you surely by this time must realize that these ancient Apostolic Churches – true particular churches – trace both their historical and theological roots back to the Upper Room without a break in the Apostolic teaching. The issues that divide them are trivial compared with the rupture of the Protestant movement.

To these ancient Churches, Protestantism, with its non-sacramental free-for-all, anything goes teaching, much of which is heretical from the historic POV, is definitely a huge danger to souls.

If I can understand that many Protestants believe the Catholic and Orthodox world interposes the Church as a berriar between the people and God, how can you not understand that in the Catholic and Orthodox view, Jesus Christ Himself gave the Church, Holy Orders, and the sacramental life as His own authentic bridge between earth and Heaven?

In effect for Protestants to “evangelize” Eastern Europeans in traditionally Orthodox countries is to lure people away from their birthright in the fullness of Christ’s truth.

 

[heisenburg]

I’m am curious why this thread has been altered from its purpose…

Are there those in the CC that say “anything bu protestant?” I’m sure there are…

But thats not what this thread is about…

Nor is it about how the CC views the EO…

Again, this is not the purpose of the thread. While both are worthy topics, perhaps they would be better suited in a separate thread as the original intent is being lost.

The question is about a very real group of people that Catholics in general run into. specifically, the thread evolved into Why would someone say it is OK to be EO, but NOT CC.

Again… This thread is not about how the CC views the EO church. Why are there those that are trying to desperately to change the focus.

A Very interesting question has been raised.

Why would a protestant that disagrees with Purgatory, Praying with the Saints/Mary, Statues, etc, that also understands what the EO teach, yet still have NO problem with someone being EO, however, declaring someone becoming Catholic is a hell worthy sin.

Atemi… This is the subject at hand. If you do not share the ABC mentality, and bless you if you don’t, then please contribute to the thread at hand. If you want to discuss how the CC views the EO Church, I look forward to seeing your thread, however, If you have nothing to contribute to the thread actually being discussed, then why are you here?

In Christ

 

[anthony022071]

I became Catholic when I embraced Orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy is not catholic,but autocephalous,schismatic,out of communion with the Church which is called Catholic.

“We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard.” Augustine, The True Religion, 7:12 (A.D. 390).

“Inasmuch, I repeat, as this is the case, we believe also in the Holy Church, [intending thereby] assuredly the Catholic. For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe. Wherefore neither do the heretics belong to the Church catholic, which loves God; nor do the schismatics form a part of the same.” Augustine, On Faith and Creed, 10:21 (A.D. 393).

“You think that you make a very acute remark when you affirm the name Catholic to mean universal, not in respect to the communion as embracing the whole world, but in respect to the observance of all Divine precepts and of all the sacraments, as if we (even accepting the position that the Church is called Catholic because it honestly holds the whole truth, of which fragments here and there are found in some heresies) rested upon the testimony of this word’s signification, and not upon the promises of God, and so many indisputable testimonies of the truth itself, our demonstration of the existence of the Church of God in all nations.” Augustine, To Vincent the Rogatist, 93:7,23 (A.D. 403).

“And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God.” (Cyril of Jerusalem,Catecheses,Lecture 18)

 

[Atemi]

Are there those in the CC that say “anything bu protestant?” I’m sure there are…

Very many. Yes.

But thats not what this thread is about…

The thread is about a form of bigotry it seems.

If this thread is only to point fingers at a select form of bigotry that is unaccaptable, all the while embracing a form of bigotry that is just fine…then please let me know.

I personally see no place for such thinking anywhere on the field…nevermind just in the hearts of non-Catholics.

The question is about a very real group of people that Catholics in general run into. specifically, the thread evolved into Why would someone say it is OK to be EO, but NOT CC.

Actually, this thread is not really about the EOs at all. You are right…though it did flow that way…as any discussion tends to do.

Why would a protestant that disagrees with Purgatory, Praying with the Saints/Mary, Statues, etc, that also understands what the EO teach, yet still have NO problem with someone being EO, however, declaring someone becoming Catholic is a hell worthy sin.

For you to leave your faith is a “Hell worthy sin” from your own perspective. Why judge others for what you believe in some form yourself?

Makes no sense.

Atemi… This is the subject at hand. If you do not share the ABC mentality, and bless you if you don’t, then please contribute to the thread at hand. If you want to discuss how the CC views the EO Church, I look forward to seeing your thread, however, If you have nothing to contribute to the thread actually being discussed, then why are you here?

I am not the one who brought up how much an improvement it would be for Protestants to be Orthodox. It seems you have not really been reading the thread.

You have a problem, it seems, when I only reply to such sentiments…so it is plain that being off topic is the least of your concerns. Your complaint should be consistent.

PS - I am in this particular thread to point out the failings and frailties of such caricatures as the invented “anything but Catholic” problem (as if this is unique to Catholics). It seems we all need our boogie men to motivate us.

…

 

[Teflon93]

Anything but Romanian Protestants.

You sit in judgment on your own thesis.

…

Might want to read the whole thing, Atemi.

“Better Protestant than atheist”, you know.

Do you not realize anyone can scroll up and see the whole thread without your redactions?

 

[Teflon93]

Yet what is your church doing to convert the Orthodox? Where are they taking steps to bring the poor EOs to the “better” and out of heresy?

I see that you would have no problem if your church pried a little there. Ahhhh.

It seems you have no issue if the RCs or the EOs convert Evangelicals, but you have a problem with Evangelicals converting RCs and EOs.

Yet again, you sit in judgment on your own belief system. This is hypocrisy.

It is not any prying that you have a problem with…it is who is doing the prying. How sweet.
…

I’m sorry, but I must have missed the Crusade to convert the Orthodox.

Perhaps if you provided EVIDENCE…

 

[Teflon93]

And back to the topic.

We’ve seen an example of Anything But Catholic—the strange new respect fundamentalist Protestants in particular have for the Orthodox Church when they believe it can be used as a hammer against the Catholic Church, despite the fact that Orthodox and Catholic are far closer in doctrine and history than Orthodox and Protestant.

Are there any other examples of the ABC mentality?

I’ll toss in one more: when one of my RCIA classmates told his grandmother he was converting from Baptist to Catholic, her response was, “So you’re not going to be Christian anymore?”

 

[Atemi]

Might want to read the whole thing, Atemi.

“Better Protestant than atheist”, you know.

Do you not realize anyone can scroll up and see the whole thread without your redactions?

Now you really believe that those “anything but Catholic” folks you mention in your OP always mean “anything including atheist”?

Like I said, you sit in judgment on your own thesis. You complain of what you yourself are guilty of.

I know a few “anything but Catholic” Protestants, but not one of them are “anything including atheism” Protestants.

You give yourself a pass where you do not extend that same courtesy to others. ABCs no more want others to be God hating atheists than ABPs do.

…

 

[Atemi]

We’ve seen an example of Anything But Catholic—the strange new respect fundamentalist Protestants in particular have for the Orthodox Church when they believe it can be used as a hammer against the Catholic Church, despite the fact that Orthodox and Catholic are far closer in doctrine and history than Orthodox and Protestant.

Kinda like the newfound respect Catholics show Luther and Calvin when they proudly show how these men believed in many Marian dogmas Catholics do today? And then they use that to hammer against non-Catholic Christians, of course.

More ABPs?

Are there any other examples of the ABC mentality?

I’ll toss in one more: when one of my RCIA classmates told his grandmother he was converting from Baptist to Catholic, her response was, “So you’re not going to be Christian anymore?”

You do know that for centuries your church taught that anything BUT Roman Catholic was not “Christian.” They taught that “Catholic” is synonymous with the word “Christian.”

Centuries and untold numbers of Catholics embraced such teaching. This is rooted deep in Catholicism. It is RC heritage.

Just because the last 40 or so years have saw a novel change does not change reality. Many of those old school type Catholics are everywhere, Teflon.

You cannot even leave your church for fear of losing your salvation forever. There is no greater “anything but Protestant” out there!

A little perspective, please.

…

 

[mercygate]

Kinda like the newfound respect Catholics show Luther and Calvin when they proudly show how these men believed in many Marian dogmas Catholics do today? And then they use that to hammer against non-Catholic Christians, of course.

More ABPs?

You do know that for centuries your church taught that anything BUT Roman Catholic was not “Christian.” They taught that “Catholic” is synonymous with the word “Christian.”

Centuries and untold numbers of Catholics embraced such teaching. This is rooted deep in Catholicism. It is RC heritage.

Just because the last 40 or so years have saw a novel change does not change reality. Many of those old school type Catholics are everywhere, Teflon.

You cannot even leave your church for fear of losing your salvation forever. There is no greater “anything but Protestant” out there!

A little perspective, please.

…

Thre is a big difference between not having the fullness of the Faith and leaving the fullness of the truth and faith for another confession. Does truth matter? Since Jesus Christ IS Truth, then His Truth is vERY important and leaving the Church is very much a life-and-death issue.

So yes: Catholics fear desperately for those who leave the Church.

 

[Church_Militant]

Kinda like the newfound respect Catholics show Luther and Calvin when they proudly show how these men believed in many Marian dogmas Catholics do today? And then they use that to hammer against non-Catholic Christians, of course.

Don’t play that one. The only reason I ever cite those things is to show the inconsistency of modern n-C teachings, most of whom don’t even know what their original founders taught nor follow it.

More ABPs?

You do know that for centuries

your church taught that anything BUT Roman Catholic was not “Christian.” They taught that “Catholic” is synonymous with the word “Christian.”

Centuries and untold numbers of Catholics embraced such teaching. This is rooted deep in Catholicism. It is RC heritage.For the first 1500 years it WAS the truth. Catholic is still synonymous with Christian despite the errant modern teachings of some n-Cs.

Just because the last 40 or so years have saw a novel change does not change reality. Many of those old school type Catholics are everywhere, Teflon.

The reality is that Catholicism is the original full gospel New Testament Christianity and all the rest are nothing but a different and deficient gospel.

Those are the facts…

You cannot even leave your church for fear of losing your salvation forever

. There is no greater “anything but Protestant” out there!Any departure from the truth can potentially endanger one’s soul and leaving the Catholic Church based upon what I said above can indeed mean that one departs from the truth for another gospel, which as we all know, the New Testament condemns.

A little perspective, please.

Physician heal thyself.