The Apocalypse

[Seeking_God]

New American Catholic Edition.
The Holy Bible.
The OT is the new Confratenerty of Christian Doctrine translation for the Books of Genesis to Ruth, Job to Sirach and the Prophetical Books; the remaining books are the Doway Version.

The NT is the new Confraternity of Christian Doctrine translation.

The Apocalypse.
Chapter 6:2 Come! And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he who was sitting on it had a bow, and there was given him a crown, and he went forth as a conqueror to conquer. Footnote definition of 6:2 is given as: White horse: this horseman with the bow symbolizes Christ and the victory of his word.
This definition is wrong. Jesus and Jesus’ word is a sword or a two edged sword, not a bow.

The King James Version of The Holy Bible reads Revelation.
Revelation 6:2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. KJV Defines that Verse as.

The first seal initiates the worldwide conquest by the false messiah. the AntiChrist. Matt (24.5). He will be the final Gentile world ruler. This horseman is not the same as the one in Revelation 19:11, Which is Christ at his second coming.

Revelation 19:11 KJV
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The Catholic version sort of reads the same.
11 And now I saw heaven open, and a white horse appear; its rider was called Trustworthy and True; in uprightness he judges and makes war.

12 His eyes were flames of fire, and he was crowned with many coronets; the name written on him was known only to himself,
13 his cloak was soaked in blood. He is known by the name, The Word of God.
14 Behind him, dressed in linen of dazzling white, rode the armies of heaven on white horses.
15 From his mouth came a sharp sword with which to strike the unbelievers; he is the one who will rule them with an iron sceptre, and tread out the wine of Almighty God’s fierce retribution.
16 On his cloak and on his thigh a name was written: King of kings and Lord of lords.
however no footnotes are given to help the reader understand. Can anyone explain why the definition of the same verse is foot noted differently and why the Catholic interpation is as it is?

The 6:2 footnotes, of both the Catholic version and the The King James Version, are not both correct in identifing the horseman of 6;2.

As far as I know, one must have both Bibles to see this.

 

[ryanoneil]

From Heaven’s perspective Christ is already victorius. The visions of the Apocalypse begin and end with the white-horse Rider. (Jesus Christ) The first seal reminds the Christian community that even though there is much suffering to undergo first, the final outcome is already assured.

When Jesus died on the cross Satan thought he was victorious but it was just the opposite. The cross was the bait and Jesus resurrection was the mouse trap. Satan was defeated by Jesus 2,000 years ago.

You are certainly free to believe what ever you want about the book of Revelation, but please explain something about (Rev 6:2)

The first seal has just been open, so what victory has the anti-christ already achieved that he is riding forth from? (chapter and verse)

What are his future victories? (chapter and verse)

Does Christ open the first seal in defeat or victory?

Peace,

Ryan

 

[JeanneH]

Hi

The 6:2 footnotes, of both the Catholic version and the The King James Version, are not both correct in identifying the horseman of 6;2.

Both my JB and NAStudy Bible say of Rev.6:2:

White Horse—bow this may perhaps allude specifically to the Parthians on the Eastern border of the Roman Empire. Expert in the use of the bow, they constantly harassed the Romans and won a major victory in AD 62.

This from the NIV:
Each of the 4 horses is a different color. Some assume that the white horse represents victory and that its rider must be Christ( because Christ later rides to victory on a white horse 19:11) But because the other 3 horses relate to judgement and destruction, this rider on the White horse would mostly likely not be Christ…

The Jerome Commentary agrees with what the JB and NAB footnotes say.

JeanneH

 

[tnystrom]

I’m not sure what the problem is. The footnotes don’t agree which simply illustrates human opinion. The scriptures both say the same thing. What does the Church interpret Rev6:2 as?

 

[JeanneH]

Hi

I’m not sure what the problem is. The footnotes don’t agree which simply illustrates human opinion. The scriptures both say the same thing. What does the Church interpret Rev6:2 as?

I would like to know how the Church interprets this scripture too.
The Church interprets very few scriptures and this probably isn’t one of them.

JeanneH

 

[Todd_Easton]

Can anyone explain why the definition of the same verse is foot noted differently and why the Catholic interpation is as it is?

Only a handful of verses in the Bible have an official Catholic interpretation. This verse is not one of those verses and so it is not “the” Catholic interpretation but merely “a” Catholic interpretation. Other Catholic commentaries on this verse contain other interpretations.

The earliest known identification that I have been able to find of the conquering rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2 as Jesus Christ is by St. Irenaeus of Lyons, in his work, book 4, chapter 21, paragraph 3Against Heresies,, written about A.D. 189. St. Irenaeus was a disciple of St. Polycarp and St. Polycarp was a disciple of St. John the Apostle. Because of this close connection to the author of the Book of Revelation, his interpretation of this verse has been commonly followed for the last two thousand years. This is the interpretation given by Pope Pius XII, in his address on 15 November 1946, as cited in the Navarre Bible: “The inspired evangelist not only saw the devastation brought about by sin, war, starvation and death; he saw, before all other things, the victory of Christ.”

 

[Seeking_God]

From Heaven’s perspective Christ is already victorius. The visions of the Apocalypse begin and end with the white-horse Rider. (Jesus Christ) The first seal reminds the Christian community that even though there is much suffering to undergo first, the final outcome is already assured

Jesus gave his life on the Cross for us. BY one man sin (death) entered the world and by one Man, Jesus sin (death) has been defeated. Jesus always was/is the Glorious Victor. The first white-horse rider is the antichrist. Jesus does not return after the 1st Seal is opened

When Jesus died on the cross Satan thought he was victorious but it was just the opposite

I agree, had the devil known, it would have done all it could to prevent Jesus from being Crucified. Jesus came to pay a debt He didn’t owe, Because we owed a debt we couldn’t pay.

This is the question Why does the Catholic interpertation of (Rev 6:2) differ so much than the KJV of the very same verse? Gods words are not in question.

The first seal has just been open, so what victory has the anti-christ already achieved that he is riding forth from? (chapter and verse)

Rev.13 KJV
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six

Matthew 4 KJV
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God called satan: the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning. The devil does not win anything. God crushes satans head with his heal.
satan, the beast and false prophet, will decieve as many as possible, the devil hates mankind, because we were mad in Gods image. It the devil has no wins nor victories against God ever.

What are his future victories? (chapter and verse)Does Christ open the first seal in defeat or victory?

Peace,Ryan Jesus opens the first seal in His Glorious Rightesness and the Wrath of God will be poured out full strength upon the earth.

Rev.5 KJV
2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev.21 KJV
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Glory be to God

God Bless

[/QUOTE]

 

[Tammy111]

This is the question Why does the Catholic interpertation of (Rev 6:2) differ so much than the KJV of the very same verse? Gods words are not in question What exactly are you asking? Do you mean the Catholic translation? The Catholic interprepation in the footnotes? There is a difference. The Catholic translation and the KJV are translated from different manuscripts. The interpretations again are human opinion albeit, both learned and one Catholic and the other Protestant,

 

[Seeking_God]

The footnotes don’t agree which simply illustrates human opinion. The scriptures both say the same thing. What does the Church interpret Rev6:2 as?

Perhaps one can point me in the right direction in the Bible where Scripture interprets Scripture. There is the problem since both do not agree concerning Rev6:2. Then which is the correct interpretation of Scripture? I have no question about Gods Holy Words, as they are infallible. The problem thus becomes one is fallable interpretation or opinion.

Rev19:11-13. Proclaims absolutely this is Jesus.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Glory be to God

God Bless

 

[Seeking_God]

Do you mean the Catholic translation? The Catholic interprepation in the footnotes? There is a difference. The Catholic translation and the KJV are translated from different manuscripts. The interpretations again are human opinion albeit, both learned and one Catholic and the other Protestant,

Yes

Then which interpretation is the correct teaching?

 

[Tammy111]

Perhaps one can point me in the right direction in the Bible where Scripture interprets Scripture. There is the problem since both do not agree concerning Rev6:2. Then which is the correct interpretation of Scripture? I have no question about Gods Holy Words, as they are infallible. The problem thus becomes one is fallable interpretation or opinion.

Rev19:11-13. Proclaims absolutely this is Jesus.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Glory be to God

God Bless

So you are concerned that the riders on the white horse in each scripture passage are not interpreted the same? Or are you concerned that the interpretations are different? I guess I am missing the critical point.

 

[Seeking_God]

So you are concerned that the riders on the white horse in each scripture passage are not interpreted the same? Or are you concerned that the interpretations are different? I guess I am missing the critical point.

The critical point is the Scripture of Rev.6:2 in the Catholic Bible, is interpretered and taught as the riders are the same. They are not. This event is The Lamb (Jesus) breaking the first seal.

The footnote explanation in the New American Catholic Edition. Describes Rev.6:2 as, White horse: this horseman with the bow symbolizes Christ and the victory of his word.

Gods Word, is as a sword not a bow.

The footnote explanation in the King James Version. Describes the same Rev.6:2 as, The first seal initiates the worldwide conquest by the false messiah. the AntiChrist. Matt (24.5). He will be the final Gentile world ruler. This horseman is not the same as the one in Revelation 19:11, Which is Christ at his second coming.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Gods Word, is as a sword not a bow.

According to Hebrews 1:8-9, Psalm 45 is to be applied to Jesus Christ and in Psalm 45:4-8 the victorious rider (Jesus Christ) has both a sword and arrows and, of course, arrows imply a bow:4Gird your sword upon your thigh, O mighty one, in your glory and majesty! 5In your majesty ride forth victoriously for the cause of truth and to defend the right; let your right hand teach you dread deeds! 6Your arrows are sharp in the heart of the king’s enemies; the peoples fall under you. 7Your divine throne endures for ever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity; 8you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows

In Isaiah 49:1-3, the metaphors of both a sword and an arrow seem to be used for God’s word:1Listen to me, O coastlands, and hearken, you peoples from afar. The LORD called me from the womb, from the body of my mother he named my name. 2He made my mouth like a sharp sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me a polished arrow, in his quiver he hid me away. 3And he said to me, "You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified."So, it seems that the interpretation that the rider of the white horse in Rev 6:2 is Jesus Christ might not be so far fetched after all.

 

[Seeking_God]

Thank You Todd, God Bless you and everyone .

Peace be with you

Glory be to God

 

[Tammy111]

The critical point is the Scripture of Rev.6:2 in the Catholic Bible, is interpretered and taught as the riders are the same. They are not. This event is The Lamb (Jesus) breaking the first seal.

The footnote explanation in the New American Catholic Edition. Describes Rev.6:2 as, White horse: this horseman with the bow symbolizes Christ and the victory of his word.

Gods Word, is as a sword not a bow.

The footnote explanation in the King James Version. Describes the same Rev.6:2 as, The first seal initiates the worldwide conquest by the false messiah. the AntiChrist. Matt (24.5). He will be the final Gentile world ruler. This horseman is not the same as the one in Revelation 19:11, Which is Christ at his second coming.

The footnote in one Catholic Bible doesn’t mean the Church teaches this as dogma. It means one Catholic Bible has that interpretation. I am Catholic, and I never had to sign anything that subscribed me to that interpretation,
God’s word is described in several ways not just as a two-edged sword. Read Psalm 119 for more symbols for God’s word.