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jerry07
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I would appreciate learning the Church’s understanding of the passage in the Bible that mentions John as the apostle that Jesus loved. Certainly Jesus loved all of the Apostles.
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NotWorthy
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John was the Apostles that Jesus loved Most. Tradition tells us that John was the youngest (around 13-15 years old, if I remember correctly). Maybe John was like a son to Jesus, who was in his early 30’s.
We see the Apostle that Jesus loved referred to a couple of times that may have symbolic meanings.
In the last supper that Apostle that Jesus loves is reclining at the heart of Jesus (up against His chest). We as disciples of Jesus are in Jesus’ heart.
The Disciple that Jesus loved received Mary as his mother, and vice versa. We, as disciples that Jesus loves, should receive Mary as our mother.
As spiritual and deep as John’s Gospel is, you’ve got to know there’s some meaning hidden under the surface when he uses peculiar words and minor details.
We see the Apostle that Jesus loved referred to a couple of times that may have symbolic meanings.
In the last supper that Apostle that Jesus loves is reclining at the heart of Jesus (up against His chest). We as disciples of Jesus are in Jesus’ heart.
The Disciple that Jesus loved received Mary as his mother, and vice versa. We, as disciples that Jesus loves, should receive Mary as our mother.
As spiritual and deep as John’s Gospel is, you’ve got to know there’s some meaning hidden under the surface when he uses peculiar words and minor details.
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thistle
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Where do you get the idea John was only 13 - 15? What is your source for this?
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Eireann
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Isn’t this the opinion of others, where does Jesus say He loved John more than others ? it just looks like an observation to me, an observation of others that is.
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NotWorthy
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I can’t recall, but I’ll see if I can find it.
But the reasoning was that John lived into the 90’s (AD). He was exiled several times in Patmos. If he had done this, he would have been at the age of at least the 70’s when he was exiled the last time in Patmos (if he was truly a teenager during Jesus’ time). There may have been more on that, but I can’t recall at this moment.
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Benadam
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.there is in the east a rite that establishes a familial union between two men called the Adelphos rite. My spelling may be wrong. It recalls the union of David and Jonathan who experienced a deep union of soul that established a bond similar to but probably deeper than the bond of blood brothers. Remember from the time the bond occured between David and Jonathan, David became as a brother to Jonathan and a son to King Saul.The Adelphos rite of the Eastern Orthodox establishes between two men the same rights and obligations that blood brothers would have and includes the entire families of both. But the important thing is that the bond it recalls is a reality within human history, especially salvation history.
In this light what is meant when John is called the beloved is that John and Jesus experienced a bond that was exclusive to St John. A bond akin to blood relatives.This is also why Jesus gave His mother to John as son to mother. Behold your mother, behold your son. In conclusion the disciple that Jesus loved could aslo be considered as the disciple that Jesus was more attached too.
In this light what is meant when John is called the beloved is that John and Jesus experienced a bond that was exclusive to St John. A bond akin to blood relatives.This is also why Jesus gave His mother to John as son to mother. Behold your mother, behold your son. In conclusion the disciple that Jesus loved could aslo be considered as the disciple that Jesus was more attached too.
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thistle
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It would make no sense that he was 13-15. Why would Christ on the Cross give Mary to a child.
Also if you check the Catholic encyclopedia it says together with Peter, John took a prominent part in the founding and guidance of the Church. A child doing this? I don’t think so.
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NotWorthy
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If he met Jesus when he was 13-15, that would place his age at 15-17 at the Crucifixion.
Wouldn’t it make sense to give a mother to someone at this age? Why is that so strange? Remember the age in which the Apostles were living. People didn’t magically become adults at 18 or 21 like today.
Note: I noticed I didn’t say 13-15 when John met Jesus. I should have clarified that, although that only allows a 2-3 year advancement in his age at the time of Jesus’ death.
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thistle
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15-17 makes no difference. There is nothing to suggest John was so young particularly if he along with Peter was one of the prominent founders and guiders of the Church. It simply doesn’t fly. It would make much more sense if he was in his mid 20’s (which is young) when Jesus died which would support his own death in his mid 80’s in the 90’s AD.
I haven’t heard of anyone who believes he was a teenager at the Crucifixion.
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NotWorthy
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So it’s obviously a falsehood?!? Wow!
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Brendan
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Why not, it was a 13-14 year old girl to gave birth to the Divine founder of our Church.
15 years old was adulthood then. We know from Scripture that he already had a trade (fisherman).
And why not have a 15 year old take a prominent part in the guidance of the Church, the chief Apostle was no Scripture scholar, but rather a uneducated, think headed fisherman.
The Holy Spirit did the rest.
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Brendan
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I do.
And that is part of the small ‘t’ tradition of the Church. You will see this in the artwork. John is always depiced beardless.
Semitic men did not shave, so John is shown beardless to indicate his young age.
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NotWorthy
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Wasn’t John a disciple of John the Baptist? If so, is this Scriptural or tradition? I’m feeling lazy right now and not up to the chase.
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CatholismRox
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He loved them all, even Judas…He is a loving God. But I think his favorite was John.
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VociMike
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Here are my own thoughts on this - not speaking for the Church
I think that when John identifies himself as the apostle whom Jesus loved, he is acknowledging that his identity, the very core of his existence, is as a being who Jesus loves. His very being, his very essence, is as a result of and as an object of God’s love. Just as God’s true identity is “I am who am”, so John’s identity is “the one whom God loved”.
And of course, just as John stood in for us in becoming a child of Mary at the cross, so John stands in for us in revealing the true identity of each of us. We are all, at the deepest, most fundamental level, “the one whom God loved”.
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Jerry-Jet
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We do know one thing for sure–even though Peter strrongly loved Jesus–John was a faster runner and got to Jesus’ tomb first and then waited on Peter.
That seems to indicate that John might have been younger than Peter–if not younger at least a faster runner or slimmer than Peter.
Sibnce Jesus left Mary to the care of John it might have been because he knew that the young John would indeed outlive the other disciples.
Tradition says that John died in the year 100. If John was born in 15 and Jesus ascended into Heaven in 33 then John would have been 18 when that happened and 85 when he died.
John Could have been 15 when Jesus ascended into Heaven–that still would have made him an old man in that day if he lived to 100AD.
It makes sense to me that John did live that long. After Peter was martyred and Linus took over and then Anacletus and Clement–the apostle John would have still been alive as an old man helping out the church and writing the Apocalypse.
That seems to indicate that John might have been younger than Peter–if not younger at least a faster runner or slimmer than Peter.
Sibnce Jesus left Mary to the care of John it might have been because he knew that the young John would indeed outlive the other disciples.
Tradition says that John died in the year 100. If John was born in 15 and Jesus ascended into Heaven in 33 then John would have been 18 when that happened and 85 when he died.
John Could have been 15 when Jesus ascended into Heaven–that still would have made him an old man in that day if he lived to 100AD.
It makes sense to me that John did live that long. After Peter was martyred and Linus took over and then Anacletus and Clement–the apostle John would have still been alive as an old man helping out the church and writing the Apocalypse.
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SFH
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St. Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica argues that Our Divine Lord loved St. Peter the most based on the fact that He willed the greatest good to St. Peter, namely the primacy of His Church.
St. John’s Gospel doesn’t say “the disciple Jesus loved most,” just “the disciple Jesus loved.”
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thistle
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Don’t put words into my mouth. You know very well I did not say that!
I’m saying John being so young at the time of Jesus’ death that doesn’t work for me and I am not aware of anything scriptural or by the early Church fathers that even hints John was so young.
I am more than happy to be corrected if you or other posters can come up with something documented.
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Jerry-Jet
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John could have been 33 when Jesus ascended to Heaven and died in the year 100AD at the age of 100–it is possible–I just don’t think it is likely.
Just think if John was 18 and all the other disciples were 30 or more.
I don’t know if that is the case–all I’m saying its that Jesus who is God Could have called a younger man to be one of his disciples.
Since tradition states that John died in the year 100AD–him being younger than 33 when Jesus ascended into Heaven just makes sense.
Just think if John was 18 and all the other disciples were 30 or more.
I don’t know if that is the case–all I’m saying its that Jesus who is God Could have called a younger man to be one of his disciples.
Since tradition states that John died in the year 100AD–him being younger than 33 when Jesus ascended into Heaven just makes sense.
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NotWorthy
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I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. Your tone on the post seemed to indicate that since you’ve never heard of it, it couldn’t be true.
Re-read post #9 and see if I’m very far off base, my friend.
Again, sorry about that. I don’t feel like going through every audio file on John that I’ve heard, but Brendan seems to recall the same bit of tradition. I’m not sure if that’s correct, but I do remember it was a reliable source (I believe it was Tim Gray).
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