The Apostles Creed/Nicene Creed

[russell007]

Two questions:

Why did we switch to the Nicene creed?

I have just noticed recently in my parish we started bowing at this part… “by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man”

Is this the norm?

 

[benedictgal]

I don’t quite have a good answer as to the history behind the Creeds, other than to say that the Nicene Creed came about as a result of the Council of Nicene, one of the early councils of the Church, which had to settle a lot of issues regarding the doctrine. This is the end result, I believe.

Now, regarding the bowing, this has been done in both forms of the Mass. However, during Christmas, we kneel at these words:

“by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man”

We also genuflect at these words during the Solemnity of the Annunciation.

We reverence this phrase because this is the moment of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. This is the moment when God made his dwelling among us, in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Two questions:

Why did we switch to the Nicene creed?

I have just noticed recently in my parish we started bowing at this part… “by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man”

Is this the norm?

The Nicene Creed has always been the norm for Sunday Mass. Bowing at the words of the incarnation has laways bee required even in the previous GIRM from the 1970’s!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I don’t quite have a good answer as to the history behind the Creeds, other than to say that the Nicene Creed came about as a result of the Council of Nicene, one of the early councils of the Church, which had to settle a lot of issues regarding the doctrine. This is the end result, I believe.

Now, regarding the bowing, this has been done in both forms of the Mass. However, during Christmas, we kneel at these words:

We also genuflect at these words during the Solemnity of the Annunciation.

We reverence this phrase because this is the moment of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. This is the moment when God made his dwelling among us, in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The Creed that is called the Nicene Creed actually started with the Council of Nicaea and was completed in the second Council of Constantinople.

 

[graceandglory]

Two questions:

Why did we switch to the Nicene creed?

I have just noticed recently in my parish we started bowing at this part… “by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man”

Is this the norm?

Growing up, I would follow along in the missalette and I always noticed that the word “bow” was next to that part in the Creed.
We didn’t do it though. Or at least I never saw anyone do it in my parish. I grew up in the cry room though. I didn’t start seeing it until I reverted to the faith about 4 yrs ago.

 

[benedictgal]

The Creed that is called the Nicene Creed actually started with the Council of Nicaea and was completed in the second Council of Constantinople.

Thank you. I remember a priest friend of mine talking about it in a scriptural class I was taking. I just couldn’t remember the dates.

 

[thistle]

The Nicene Creed has always been the norm for Sunday Mass. Bowing at the words of the incarnation has laways bee required even in the previous GIRM from the 1970’s!

Maybe in the US but not here in the Philippines. Sunday Mass its always the Apostles Creed.
The GIRM does not specify which Creed. It simply says the Creed.

 

[Cluny]

Why did we switch to the Nicene creed?
Who is “we”, Kemo Sabe?

The Nicene Creed was ALWAYS part of the Roman Rite and all classical orders of Mass.

Using the Apostle’s Creed is what is “switching.”

The question should be why was the switch made to the Apostle’s Creed.

Genuflecting at the mention of the Incarnation is part of classical Roman practice. Changing it to a bow is, again, a switch.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

I don’t quite have a good answer as to the history behind the Creeds, other than to say that the Nicene Creed came about as a result of the Council of Nicene, one of the early councils of the Church, which had to settle a lot of issues regarding the doctrine. This is the end result, I believe.

Actually, it’s called the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. It was hammered out at 2 different ecumenical councils that dealt with devastating heresies afflicting Eastern Christiendom. The Eastern Churches were the first to incorporate this Creed into their liturgies, to weed out the heretics so to speak.

If memory serves me right, scholars tell us that the very ancient form of the Roman Mass is so simple that it doesn’t have the Creed. Even after the Eastern Churches included the Creed in their Divine Liturgies, Rome refused to include it, because Rome has never departed from the True and Apostolic faith. Eventually the Creed entered the Roman Mass through what is now called France or Spain (I think), and from there spread to Rome and was finally included.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Maybe in the US but not here in the Philippines. Sunday Mass its always the Apostles Creed.
The GIRM does not specify which Creed. It simply says the Creed.

I’m not in the Philippines and the original poster does not specify they are either.

 

[thistle]

I’m not in the Philippines and the original poster does not specify they are either.

Same applies in the US. The GIRM with US adaptations also does not specify which Creed to say. It just says the Creed.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

Same applies in the US. The GIRM with US adaptations also does not specify which Creed to say. It just says the Creed.

But not all the rubrics are found in the GIRM. The rubric as to which Creed is to be used is found in the Ordo Missae. I don’t have the current text with me, but I recall the Nicene Creed to be the norm, with permission for the Apostles Creed at Masses with Children. This was changed in the third typical edition of the Missale Romanum published during the pontificate of Pope John Paul II, thus in the new Ordo Missae recently confirmed, it reads:

1. At the end of the homily, the Symbol or Profession of Faith or Creed, when prescribed, is
   sung or said:

*Followed by the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. *

1. Instead of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, especially during Lent and Easter time,
   the baptismal Symbol of the Roman Church, known as the Apostles’ Creed, may be used.

Individual Bishops’ Conferences may request from Rome permission to regularly use the Apostles Creed in lieu of the Nicene Creed, and I suspect many Bishops’ Conferences in Asian countries have made that request. But I have no documentation in this regard.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

By the way, should the Apostles Creed be used, there is a rubric for the people to bow also when the mystery of the Incarnation is mentioned:

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,

At the words that follow, up to and including the Virgin Mary, all bow.

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, etc

 

[Phemie]

Same applies in the US. The GIRM with US adaptations also does not specify which Creed to say. It just says the Creed.

That’s because the latest edition of the Roman Missal allows either. The previous edition mandated the Nicene Creed but some countries, like Canada for its English sector, were granted an indult to use the Apostles Creed. Nobody I asked could tell me why English Canada would petition for such an indult since the French communities have no problem using the Nicene Creed.

 

[Pax_Vobiscum_57]

At the parish my husband is assigned to, my sons & I are the only ones who bow at the Incarnation and kneel at Christmas.

 

[twf]

Phemie:
Actually it varies in English Canada. Here in the Archdiocese of Vancouver most parishes seem to use the Apostles Creed but some use the Nicene Creed. It’s up to the pastor. Likewise, most parisehs receive Holy Communion standing, but some receive kneeling…almost everything is left to the pastor…at least here.

 

[Phemie]

Phemie:
Actually it varies in English Canada. Here in the Archdiocese of Vancouver most parishes seem to use the Apostles Creed but some use the Nicene Creed. It’s up to the pastor. Likewise, most parisehs receive Holy Communion standing, but some receive kneeling…almost everything is left to the pastor…at least here.

Oh, I realize that it’s up to the pastor. I just haven’t experienced the Nicene much in the last 15-20 years unless I was attending a French Mass somewhere. I haven’t experienced a parish that knelt for Communion in at least 25 years in dozens of parishes although I haven’t seen anyone refused Communion if they chose to kneel. I think having parishioners arrested for kneeling to receive and then having the case make it to the Supreme Court put a stop to that embarrassment.

 

[benedictgal]

In the Roman Missal approved for use in Mexico (Mexican Episcopal Conference–CEM), there is the option for either the Nicene or the Apostles Creed. However, although we use the CEM version of the Roman Missal here in the United States, we are still bound by the USCCB-adapted GIRM. It does make it confusing, especially when we have visiting priests from Mexico.

 

[JVSantos]

Since the Nicene Creed is the subject, I just wanted to share this picture.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[thistle]

By the way, should the Apostles Creed be used, there is a rubric for the people to bow also when the mystery of the Incarnation is mentioned:

Yes I do bow but I have to admit I’m the odd one out when doing that.