The Apostles & Islam

[George_Waters]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the companions of Mohammed. I am curious why Muslims ignore the teachings, sayings, interpretations and myterdoms of the companions of Jesus, the apostles?

Thanks.

 

[Kadaveri]

Because we know almost nothing about them.

 

[hamba2han]

Why Muslims do not consider the purported sayings of the apostles… or even to believe unreservedly in the purported sayings of Jesus (pbuh) himself as found in the Bible?

The simple answer to this is isnad i.e. the chain of reporters which enables the sayings or actions of either the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions to be accurately and reliably traced in every part of the narration right down to the original source of the narration.

Islam is the ONLY religion which has ‘isnad’ and there is a Science of Hadith which classifies all of the countless thousands of collected ahahith into 4 categories depending on their strength and quality each hadith – sound, reliable, weak or fabricated.

A hadith (pl. ahadith) is composed of two parts: the ‘matn’ (text) and the ‘isnad’ (chain of reporters). A text may seem to be logical and reasonable but it needs an authentic isnad with reliable reporters to be acceptable; 'Abdullah bin Al-Mubarak (d. 181 AH), one of the illustrious teachers of Imam al-Bukhari, said,

**" The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked "**

Going by the criteria used in the Science of Hadith, all that is reported in the Bible will be classified as either fabricated or at best, very weak and hence this is why Muslims always take anything that is written in the Bible with a generous pinch of salt.

 

[George_Waters]

Kadaveri,

But why discount or ignore what we do know about them? The apostles knew the message of Jesus was far more important than their own posterity, but we can still learn from their lives and deaths.

Hamba,

Thanks for the info about isnad.

I know the view of the Bible is vastly different between Muslims and Christians, but what about extra-biblical evidence? For example there is archeological evidence that the apostle Bartholomew evangelized and was martyred in India. I would think this important to Muslims as they believe Jesus was Muslim and hence so were his apostles. And why not consider the apostles Muslim martyrs as most died while spreading the teachings of Jesus?

 

[hamba2han]

I know the view of the Bible is vastly different between Muslims and Christians, but what about extra-biblical evidence? For example there is archeological evidence that the apostle Bartholomew evangelized and was martyred in India. I would think this important to Muslims as they believe Jesus was Muslim and hence so were his apostles. And why not consider the apostles Muslim martyrs as most died while spreading the teachings of Jesus?

Again, the simple answer to this is ‘isnad’… or more accurately, the total absence of it in any of the “extra-biblical evidences” that you cited.

 

[George_Waters]

Again, the simple answer to this is ‘isnad’… or more accurately, the total absence of it in any of the “extra-biblical evidences” that you cited.

Has any research been done to isnad the sayings and actions of the apostles or does isnad only apply to Mohammed and his companions? If so why ignore the companions of the “Muslim” Jesus? What happened to these men spreading the “word of Islam”? Why did they stop preaching Islam if it was the true religion of God? This makes no sense.

I will think on this more, however it seems isnad is superficial at best especially in light of the fact that none of Mohammed’s claims can be substantiated by anyone other than Mohammed in the first place. I know you will certainly disagree, but it seems Mohammed himself could not live up to the artificially created “science” of isnad. Mohammed’s claims are to us at best very weak or fabricated using simple logic.

 

[Booklover]

Why Muslims do not consider the purported sayings of the apostles… or even to believe unreservedly in the purported sayings of Jesus (pbuh) himself as found in the Bible?

The simple answer to this is isnad i.e. the chain of reporters which enables the sayings or actions of either the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions to be accurately and reliably traced in every part of the narration right down to the original source of the narration.

Islam is the ONLY religion which has ‘isnad’ and there is a Science of Hadith which classifies all of the countless thousands of collected ahahith into 4 categories depending on their strength and quality each hadith – sound, reliable, weak or fabricated.

A hadith (pl. ahadith) is composed of two parts: the ‘matn’ (text) and the ‘isnad’ (chain of reporters). A text may seem to be logical and reasonable but it needs an authentic isnad with reliable reporters to be acceptable; 'Abdullah bin Al-Mubarak (d. 181 AH), one of the illustrious teachers of Imam al-Bukhari, said,

" The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked "

Going by the criteria used in the Science of Hadith, all that is reported in the Bible will be classified as either fabricated or at best, very weak and hence this is why Muslims always take anything that is written in the Bible with a generous pinch of salt.

Sounds toooo good to be true! Too pat, too perfect. What did they do, run around with a pad and pencil writing everything down as it was uttered? That must not have given them much time to do anything else! Complete fabrication, just like the Quran!

Vickie

 

[hamba2han]

Has any research been done to isnad the sayings and actions of the apostles or does isnad only apply to Mohammed and his companions? If so why ignore the companions of the “Muslim” Jesus? What happened to these men spreading the “word of Islam”? Why did they stop preaching Islam if it was the true religion of God? This makes no sense.

I will think on this more, however it seems isnad is superficial at best especially in light of the fact that none of Mohammed’s claims can be substantiated by anyone other than Mohammed in the first place. I know you will certainly disagree, but it seems Mohammed himself could not live up to the artificially created “science” of isnad. Mohammed’s claims are to us at best very weak or fabricated using simple logic.

Suppose that someone claims that one of the apostles said so and so about something that Jesus (pbuh) might have said and did, can any Christian scholar then provide a chain of narration which traces precisely how this narration was transmitted from the person who finally wrote it down all the way up to the person who heard either what the said apostle said or what Jesus (pbuh) himself said?

In Islam, Muslim scholars can indeed provide this precise chain of narration regarding not only what exactly did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) say but also the name and personal character of every person along this chain of narration who reported this narration until it was compiled in a book of Hadiths.

This is what is termed ‘isnad’.

When you say that the apostles stopped preaching Islam, who exactly are the people that reported this?

Let me guess… Paul perhaps??

And while we are on the subject of Paul, who exactly are the people along the chain of narration who reported what Paul himself said until it was finally written in the Bible that we have today?

For example, what did Paul say about the Trinity… if anything at all?

Do Christians have a chain of narration for Paul’s views on this particular subject?

 

[Booklover]

Suppose that someone claims that one of the apostles said so and so about something that Jesus (pbuh) might have said and did, can any Christian scholar then provide a chain of narration which traces precisely how this narration was transmitted from the person who finally wrote it down all the way up to the person who heard either what the said apostle said or what Jesus (pbuh) himself said?

In Islam, Muslim scholars can indeed provide this precise chain of narration regarding not only what exactly did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) say but also the name and personal character of every person along this chain of narration who reported this narration until it was compiled in a book of Hadiths.

This is what is termed ‘isnad’.

When you say that the apostles stopped preaching Islam, who exactly are the people that reported this?

Let me guess… Paul perhaps??

And while we are on the subject of Paul, who exactly are the people along the chain of narration who reported what Paul himself said until it was finally written in the Bible that we have today?

For example, what did Paul say about the Trinity… if anything at all?

Do Christians have a chain of narration for Paul’s views on this particular subject?

The Apostles were busy carrying out their task of evangelization as per Jesus’ instructions to go and preach the gospel to all nations.

Vickie

 

[George_Waters]

Suppose that someone claims that one of the apostles said so and so about something that Jesus (pbuh) might have said and did, can any Christian scholar then provide a chain of narration which traces precisely how this narration was transmitted from the person who finally wrote it down all the way up to the person who heard either what the said apostle said or what Jesus (pbuh) himself said?

In Islam, Muslim scholars can indeed provide this precise chain of narration regarding not only what exactly did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) say but also the name and personal character of every person along this chain of narration who reported this narration until it was compiled in a book of Hadiths.

This is what is termed ‘isnad’.

When you say that the apostles stopped preaching Islam, who exactly are the people that reported this?

Let me guess… Paul perhaps??

And while we are on the subject of Paul, who exactly are the people along the chain of narration who reported what Paul himself said until it was finally written in the Bible that we have today?

For example, what did Paul say about the Trinity… if anything at all?

Do Christians have a chain of narration for Paul’s views on this particular subject?

Man, you’ll do anything to bash poor Paul won’t you? Let’s stay on the topic of this thread instead attempting to side track it please.
Has any research been done to isnad the sayings and actions of the apostles or does isnad only apply to Mohammed and his companions?

Since Muslims claim Jesus was Muslim it is only logical Muslims would try to trace the precise narration of Jesus and His apostles. Has this been done?

Who reported they quit preaching Islam? Well we have no isnad saying they did keep preaching so I guess Muslims did.

 

[paarsurrey]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the companions of Mohammed. I am curious why Muslims ignore the teachings, sayings, interpretations and myterdoms of the companions of Jesus, the apostles?
Thanks.

Hi

Quran mentions about Jesus , Mary and the disciples with respect and very nicely. I quote here some verses about the disciples of Jesus.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma’idah

[5:112] And remember My favour when I inspired the disciples saying, ‘Believe in ME and My Messenger,’ they said, ‘We believe and bear Thou witness that we have submitted.’
[5:113] When the disciples said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, is thy Lord able to send down to us a table spread with food from heaven? He said, ‘Fear Allah, if you are believers.’
[5:114] They said, ‘We desire that we may eat of it, and that our hearts may be at rest and that we may know that thou hast spoken the truth to us, and that we may be witness thereto.’
[5:115] Said Jesus, son of Mary, ‘O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table from heaven spread with food that it may be to us a festival, to the first of us and to the last of us and a Sign from THeE; and provide sustenance for us, for THOU art the Best of Sustainers.’
[5:116] Allah said, ‘Surely I will send it down to you; but whosoever of you disbelieves afterwards - I will surely punish them with a punishment wherewith I will not punish any other of the peoples.’
[5:117] And when Allah will say, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’ he will answer, 'Holy art THOU, I could never say that which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is Thou alone Who art the Knower of all hidden things;
[5:118] 'I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me - Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou, hast been the Watcher over them, and Thou art Witness over all things;
[5:119] 'If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise. ’
[5:120] Allah will say, ‘This is a day when only the truthful shall profit by their truthfulness. For them are Gardens beneath which streams flow; therein shall they abide forever. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him; that indeed is the supreme achievement.’

Unquote

Thanks

 

[George_Waters]

Hi

Quran mentions about Jesus , Mary and the disciples with respect and very nicely. I quote here some verses about the disciples of Jesus.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma’idah

[5:112] And remember My favour when I inspired the disciples saying, ‘Believe in ME and My Messenger,’ they said, ‘We believe and bear Thou witness that we have submitted.’
[5:113] When the disciples said, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, is thy Lord able to send down to us a table spread with food from heaven? He said, ‘Fear Allah, if you are believers.’
[5:114] They said, ‘We desire that we may eat of it, and that our hearts may be at rest and that we may know that thou hast spoken the truth to us, and that we may be witness thereto.’
[5:115] Said Jesus, son of Mary, ‘O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table from heaven spread with food that it may be to us a festival, to the first of us and to the last of us and a Sign from THeE; and provide sustenance for us, for THOU art the Best of Sustainers.’
[5:116] Allah said, ‘Surely I will send it down to you; but whosoever of you disbelieves afterwards - I will surely punish them with a punishment wherewith I will not punish any other of the peoples.’
[5:117] And when Allah will say, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’ he will answer, 'Holy art THOU, I could never say that which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is Thou alone Who art the Knower of all hidden things;
[5:118] 'I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me - Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou, hast been the Watcher over them, and Thou art Witness over all things;
[5:119] 'If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise. ’
[5:120] Allah will say, ‘This is a day when only the truthful shall profit by their truthfulness. For them are Gardens beneath which streams flow; therein shall they abide forever. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him; that indeed is the supreme achievement.’

Unquote

Thanks

Thank you for your post.

 

[Sixtus]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the companions of Mohammed. I am curious why Muslims ignore the teachings, sayings, interpretations and myterdoms of the companions of Jesus, the apostles?

Thanks.

Good point

 

[Montalban]

There are some Moslem groups that have cults of Moslem Saints

 

[famdigy]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the companions of Mohammed. I am curious why Muslims ignore the teachings, sayings, interpretations and myterdoms of the companions of Jesus, the apostles?
Thanks.

George, the reason why there is a lot of emphasis on the companions of Muhammad (s) is because they sacrificed their wealth, and lives for the sake of Islam and they are the were the conduits through which Islam was brought to us; - of course this is according to sunni theology and a source of major strife between the sunnis and the shiites.

 

[dolphinlove]

George, the reason why there is a lot of emphasis on the companions of Muhammad (s) is because they sacrificed their wealth, and lives for the sake of Islam and they are the were the conduits through which Islam was brought to us; - of course this is according to sunni theology and a source of major strife between the sunnis and the shiites.

What the the shiites believe in this matter?

 

[paarsurrey]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the companions of Mohammed. I am curious why Muslims ignore the teachings, sayings, interpretations and myterdoms of the companions of Jesus, the apostles?

Thanks.

Hi

I said Quran/Islam/Muhammad speak good about Jesus, Mary and the apostles of Jesus, I gave an excerpt from Quran to prove my point. Now , I give yet another excerpt from Quran:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Al-`Imran

[3:45] This is of the tidings of things unseen which We reveal to thee. And thou wast not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou with them when they disputed with one another.
[3:46] When the angels said, 'O Mary, Allah gives thee glad tidings of a son through a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
[3:47] 'And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of the righteous.
[3:48] She said, 'My Lord, how shall I have a son, when no man has touched me? He said, ‘Such is the way of Allah. He creates what He pleases. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is;’
[3:49] “And He will teach him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;
[3:50] And will send him as a Messenger to the Children of Israel with the Message, 'I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird; then I will breath into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you are believers.
[3:51] ‘And I come fulfilling that which is before me, namely, the Torah; and to allow you some of that which was forbidden unto you, and I come to you with a Sign from your Lord; so fear Allah and obey me;’
[3:52] ‘Surely, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him this is the right path.’”
[3:53] And when Jesus perceived their disbelief, he said, ‘Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah?’ The disciples answered, ‘We are the helpers of Allah. We have believed in Allah. And bear thou witness that we are obedient;’
[3:54] ‘Our Lord, we believe in that which thou hast sent down and we follow this Messenger. So write us down among those who bear witness.’
[3:55] And Jesus’s enemies planned and Allah also planned, and Allah is the Best of Planners.
[3:56] Remember the time when Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.’

Unquote

Quran gives full respect to Jesus, Maryam and the Apostles; there is not a singel verse in Quran which speaks with disrespect to them. Quran is very charitable, one must agree.

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

Yes, the Koran speaks of Mary.

It says Christians worship her as part of the Trinity.

Another mistake by Muhammed

 

[Booklover]

A lot of emphasis is placed on the companions of Mohammed. I am curious why Muslims ignore the teachings, sayings, interpretations and myterdoms of the companions of Jesus, the apostles?

Thanks.

Because Muslims think they were complete idiots and totally untrustworthy and unreliable. Such is the arrogance of Islam and its followers.

Vickie

 

[paarsurrey]

Because Muslims think they were complete idiots and totally untrustworthy and unreliable. Such is the arrogance of Islam and its followers.
Vickie

Hi

Kindly quote from Quran.

Thanks