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joe370
Guest
Sorry…Please provide some links of these miraculous apparitions. Thanks brother. Fraudulent (as opposed to approved) - Marian apparitions can draw people away; I agree with you on that.
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KathleenGee
Guest
If people are wondering why Mary appeared at Fatima, I first have to ask if any know about what happened in the Soviet Union and the rise of communism…in China, and other countries…the KGB disinformation to deflect attention away from the millions upon millions slaughtered by their own people for the name of the state, parades of ‘heroic’ children being led down the streets for turning their own parents over because they had Bibles in their homes…
to the diversion that America is the enemy of the world…what was going on in America to break down our moral fiber…so much is orchestrated.
You can see Pope Pius XI encyclical on communism…#9 refers to the view of human society simply as phenomenon and form of matter, #'s 11 and 75 refer to family, #59 repeats the remedy to fight communism as also stated by Our Lady of Fatima…
papalencyclicals.net/Pius/P11.DIVIN.HTM
Mary is the Great Sign that appeared in the sky…Pray the rosary and do penance!
to the diversion that America is the enemy of the world…what was going on in America to break down our moral fiber…so much is orchestrated.
You can see Pope Pius XI encyclical on communism…#9 refers to the view of human society simply as phenomenon and form of matter, #'s 11 and 75 refer to family, #59 repeats the remedy to fight communism as also stated by Our Lady of Fatima…
papalencyclicals.net/Pius/P11.DIVIN.HTM
Mary is the Great Sign that appeared in the sky…Pray the rosary and do penance!
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joe370
Guest
Kathleen, I clicked on that link but nothing. I would really like to check out that link. Thanks…
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KathleenGee
Guest
It is the encyclical by Pope Pius XI…written in March, 1937…and really gets at the heart of evil of communism…we do not survive by the sole work of our hands…but the very grace of God.
Our American young people have been greatly ‘brainwashed’…backwards…by the blackout of the pogroms. They know little.
All those countries living under communism became impoverished…still suffering to this day with such a profound destruction of the innate moral code of their societies…evident still in Russia, but she is regaining her faith.
We had nuclear bomb drills when I was 8 years old, and seeing the film clips of the A bomb wiping away everything…the drills simply scared me more…no protection in that at all.
The Soviet Union was preparing for war by invading Poland. There was Breshnyev,…whose death mask looked like he saw seeing Satan at the moment of his death, then Krusynykov (spelling)…maneurvering on the Polish border, the downing of the Korean airliner August 31, 1983, then finally the scariest – Andropov, head of the KGB…they began dropping like flies…finally, the consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary was done by John Paul II in March of 1984…and we then had Gorbachev. Later information I read said yes, the Soviet Union was indeed preparing for war.
I was completely taken when John Paul II was elected from behind the Iron Curtain…I knew this man was going to be most significant in the fight against the communists and there were plots to kill him by the KGB. When the Holy Father was shot in the Vatican on the Fatima feast day, that compelled him to study the message. It was a miracle he survived…the assassin could not understand why he missed killing him at such close range. John Paul II said it was our Lady of Fatima who saved his life…‘The Keys to the Blood’…Martin Malachi…parallels the epic life and timing of John Paul II’s papacy.
Divini Redemptoris…another study is the use of psychology in communism…Satanic…disinformation. Incredible. The mortal wound of the beast…that heals?..Red Dragon?..
Our American young people have been greatly ‘brainwashed’…backwards…by the blackout of the pogroms. They know little.
All those countries living under communism became impoverished…still suffering to this day with such a profound destruction of the innate moral code of their societies…evident still in Russia, but she is regaining her faith.
We had nuclear bomb drills when I was 8 years old, and seeing the film clips of the A bomb wiping away everything…the drills simply scared me more…no protection in that at all.
The Soviet Union was preparing for war by invading Poland. There was Breshnyev,…whose death mask looked like he saw seeing Satan at the moment of his death, then Krusynykov (spelling)…maneurvering on the Polish border, the downing of the Korean airliner August 31, 1983, then finally the scariest – Andropov, head of the KGB…they began dropping like flies…finally, the consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary was done by John Paul II in March of 1984…and we then had Gorbachev. Later information I read said yes, the Soviet Union was indeed preparing for war.
I was completely taken when John Paul II was elected from behind the Iron Curtain…I knew this man was going to be most significant in the fight against the communists and there were plots to kill him by the KGB. When the Holy Father was shot in the Vatican on the Fatima feast day, that compelled him to study the message. It was a miracle he survived…the assassin could not understand why he missed killing him at such close range. John Paul II said it was our Lady of Fatima who saved his life…‘The Keys to the Blood’…Martin Malachi…parallels the epic life and timing of John Paul II’s papacy.
Divini Redemptoris…another study is the use of psychology in communism…Satanic…disinformation. Incredible. The mortal wound of the beast…that heals?..Red Dragon?..
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ComeHome2Rome
Guest
cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/29/earlyshow/living/main1081235.shtml
This is a link to CBS News it also shows the video of it while it was happening.
The following 3 links are from Unsolved Mysteries - details the apparition and some of the scientific investigations done:
youtube.com/watch?v=_k8E-f92sr0
youtube.com/watch?v=TG0G0k49nq4&NR=1
youtube.com/watch?v=fd3G1S_24NM&NR=1
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joe370
Guest
Actually RD said that they happen in other religions, such as Muslim or Buddhist. I was asking him to provide some miraculous Muslim or Buddhist apparitions that are just as convincing as Marian apparitions. I am quite familiar with approve catholic apparitions. 
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Sufjon
Guest
If Mary is part of your faith, then I have no doubt that She is one of the ways in which God reaches out to you. If her apparitions have the effect that they bring you or others closer to God, then I personally see no reason for proof to be needed. It is a matter of faith, and these apparitions have a good deal of value in that they bring people closer to God. I have no doubt that Mary is one of the ways in which God reaches out to people. I also have no doubt that She touches people countless times in miraculous ways on a personal level to those who are devoted to Her, and these day to day events don’t get publicized. They may not even be recognized by some of the people they happen to. You don’t have to be a Catholic or even a Christian to see it. You just have to be looking and listening. I believe these apparitions happen, but it’s not because of any proof that would hold up in any court. I have personally felt her presence among people who were devoted to Her and that’s good enough for me.
Your friend
Sufjon
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Bluegoat
Guest
This is the kind of reason that a lot of religions do not do “scientific” investigations of visions etc. It isn’t seen to be important to have that kind of surety.
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Bluegoat
Guest
Some have apparitions, others have different sorts of miracles or amazing things. Most don’t do investigations into them, and many make a point of keeping them quiet.
Marian apparitions are not unknown in earlier times, but they seem to have really increased in frequency during the times when popular piety around Mary has increased, including during the medieval period and more recently. That’s not to say there was no Marian devotion before then, just that it seemed to be less popular or developed or focused. The kinds of “miracles” that happen do seem to be related to the types of popular piety around - consider stigmata as another example. Yes, of the “four dogmas” two are quite old. The other two are specifically Catholic (as dogmas) and are much more recent - the past 150 years. That is fully half of them! And there is continual talk of others - they may never be declared, but I think this speaks to a particular kind of Catholic piety around Mary at the present time. Two hundred years in the context of Christian history is not that long.
But I would be really surprised if this kind of thing was convincing to anyone who is outside the faith involved, and why should it be? That is really not its purpose, even if it is authentic.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Marys intercession easily can be dated to 900 in Poland without breaking a sweat.
There have been over 300 visitations reported from Mary in this past century “alone” which a Yale study completed in 98. Thats 13 years ago when Professor Pelikan did the survey and released the book Mary “Through the Centurys”. He taught Theology at Yale for decades.
Profit has been reported in less than 5% and “can’t” be attributed as a motive. On the contrary the Seers most often retreat to seclusion to find peace.
Children from difficult walks of life have been the ones most frequently Visited. Often without an education to even know what they are actually saying.
Mary has not only appeared to Catholics either.
Skeptical Philosphy which has investigated all the Approved Miracles can discredit many of them through lack of conclusive information. Yet when we arrive at Fatima and the Copic Church of St Mary in Zeitoun Egypt from 68-70. We become stuck. Because the evidence is conclusive, and it is abundant. And more important the Miracle of the Sun was predicted, dated, and then it happened as scheduled. So its not so important of what actually was seen, though accounts are similiar. There are several written dated letters by Professor, Priest and Politicians who witnessed the event. The fact remains, they all seen a magnificant Miracle, that was predicted and came true?
Zeitoun is just as amazing and was witnessed by a majority of Muslims and Coptic Christians
So how does one discredit that? I’d love to hear the logic.
There have been over 300 visitations reported from Mary in this past century “alone” which a Yale study completed in 98. Thats 13 years ago when Professor Pelikan did the survey and released the book Mary “Through the Centurys”. He taught Theology at Yale for decades.
Profit has been reported in less than 5% and “can’t” be attributed as a motive. On the contrary the Seers most often retreat to seclusion to find peace.
Children from difficult walks of life have been the ones most frequently Visited. Often without an education to even know what they are actually saying.
Mary has not only appeared to Catholics either.
Skeptical Philosphy which has investigated all the Approved Miracles can discredit many of them through lack of conclusive information. Yet when we arrive at Fatima and the Copic Church of St Mary in Zeitoun Egypt from 68-70. We become stuck. Because the evidence is conclusive, and it is abundant. And more important the Miracle of the Sun was predicted, dated, and then it happened as scheduled. So its not so important of what actually was seen, though accounts are similiar. There are several written dated letters by Professor, Priest and Politicians who witnessed the event. The fact remains, they all seen a magnificant Miracle, that was predicted and came true?
Zeitoun is just as amazing and was witnessed by a majority of Muslims and Coptic Christians
So how does one discredit that? I’d love to hear the logic.
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KathleenGee
Guest
`The Catholic Church states that apparitions are private revelation – if found authentic. We are not obliged to believe in Marian apparitions.
I was never drawn to Mary before I left the USA.
But as a priest said one time, when looking at the context of Fatima and communism, we ought to listen to Mary. And the fact that I lived in Portugal for several months, my roommate from a farm outside of Leiria…the diocesan seat of Fatima, I went to her family’s home. They took me there.
Also, Portugal was under the governing of the Muslim Moors for awhile as was Spain. We went to Fatima, very small place.
It was the day to day relationship I saw demonstrated by highly educated European Latin missionaries, that I gradually came to want to know more about her. I experienced her presence on Christmas Eve, 1974 at a nursing mission. The Italian nurse was part of Chiara Lubeck’s movement, the Focoliari…my misspelling.
John Paul II knew of Fatima but was not drawn to it, until he was nearly killed. He attributes Our Lady of Fatima for saving his life. And her appearance in the sky privately causes us to see her as the Great Sign that appeared in the sky in Revelations 12…and we are now seeing the ascendency of the Great Dragon.
The woman in revelations is both Mary and the church…who will be taken to the desert for a period of time…by eagle wings…representing contemplation of the Word of God. The symbol for St. John the Evangelist is the eagle.
When a person contemplates the Word of God most prayerfully, the Holy Spirit lifts that person into the realm of higher realities.
I was never drawn to Mary before I left the USA.
But as a priest said one time, when looking at the context of Fatima and communism, we ought to listen to Mary. And the fact that I lived in Portugal for several months, my roommate from a farm outside of Leiria…the diocesan seat of Fatima, I went to her family’s home. They took me there.
Also, Portugal was under the governing of the Muslim Moors for awhile as was Spain. We went to Fatima, very small place.
It was the day to day relationship I saw demonstrated by highly educated European Latin missionaries, that I gradually came to want to know more about her. I experienced her presence on Christmas Eve, 1974 at a nursing mission. The Italian nurse was part of Chiara Lubeck’s movement, the Focoliari…my misspelling.
John Paul II knew of Fatima but was not drawn to it, until he was nearly killed. He attributes Our Lady of Fatima for saving his life. And her appearance in the sky privately causes us to see her as the Great Sign that appeared in the sky in Revelations 12…and we are now seeing the ascendency of the Great Dragon.
The woman in revelations is both Mary and the church…who will be taken to the desert for a period of time…by eagle wings…representing contemplation of the Word of God. The symbol for St. John the Evangelist is the eagle.
When a person contemplates the Word of God most prayerfully, the Holy Spirit lifts that person into the realm of higher realities.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Mary and all those in heaven are not dead but alive in Christ.
Mary is the model Par Excellence for her fidelity to the Christian life.
Mary is greatest contemplative.
Just as we learn more about Christ through our friends, Mary can teach us that much more about Christ…Mary, full of grace.
Mary is the model Par Excellence for her fidelity to the Christian life.
Mary is greatest contemplative.
Just as we learn more about Christ through our friends, Mary can teach us that much more about Christ…Mary, full of grace.
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GreggAlvarez
Guest
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GreggAlvarez
Guest
So, can God allow apparitions within Christianity? If not, then why not? If so, then who approves them outside of the Catholic Church? Or do you just believe that God allows a figure of Mary and/or Jesus to be seen in a cheese sandwich and nothing more? (www.GrilledCheeseJesus.com)
I have never heard of Baptists or Methodist or any other denomination sending out people to do extensive research and approve or disprove ANY apparitions. If I am mistaken, then sorry.
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pablope
Guest
Care to share how Fatima drew you closer, Joe? Have you seen The 13Th day movie, about events at Fatima based, I think, on Sister Lucia’s memoirs?As a non-Catholic, Fatima was instrumental in drawing me closer to Jesus; thanks for the feedback Kathleen.
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Brian_Culliton
Guest
I am very interested in hearing what drew Joe too.
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joe370
Guest
Like most, it was the miraculous nature of the events. The miracle of the Sun witnessed by thousands, which included even atheists. Let’s face it when we recognize something as being miraculous, we are of course, drawn to the message.
Garabandal, which has not met the approval of the CC yet, but not rejected either, is really what pushed me off the proverbial fence right into the Tiber; those apparitions of those 4 little innocent girls, over a 3 year period, made my swim real nice. LOL…
And I am a big doubting Thomas when it comes to believing in miracles, but what those 4 little girls did from 1961 to 65, was impossible. So impossible, that dissenters, due to the miraculous nature of them, resort to calling them demonic, and if that is true, well, the war is over, and Satan has given up, for the message is perfectly in line with scripture.
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Joseph_L_Varga
Guest
Another Joe, posting
If you don’t mind, I’d like to share how the apparitions of Mary drew me right back into the Catholic Church. My signature line consists of essentially a list of Mary’s apparitions, because she helped me so greatly in my time of need. I intend to show my gratitude for that through honoring Mary, among other things, with my signature line.
I grew up among many atheists and in my early twenties I was wondering whether it’s all true. Whether there is a God, whether he cares at all about us, whether there is a supernatural world at all. Or, is it as the atheistic materialists say, that our body decomposes after our death and that’s the end of us, because there’s no such thing as a supernatural world, there’s no supernatural soul breathed into us by a supernatural God, and the story about Jesus Christ’s resurrection is just a fairy tale.
One thing that baffled me, was why did God abandon us for 2000 years after the death and resurrection of Christ? Of course, this only shows how uneducated I was, and how I came under the Protestant influence, because the Catholic Church is chock full of miracles (Eucharistic miracles, miracles of healing and even resurrecting the dead, performed by Saints, etc), apparitions of Jesus Christ to Saints, apparitions of Mary, who help us in addition to us having the Pope and Bishops of course. But the Protestants just look at Jesus Christ, whether the historical evidence and eyewitness accounts of his resurrection are reliable, and that happened 2000 years ago. Protestants don’t even know (mostly) about the more recent miraculous events in the Catholic Church, such as the apparitions of Jesus to Sr. Faustina Kowalska in the 20th century (establishing the Divine Mercy devotion), the many miracles in the life of St. Padre Pio, another 20th century saint, and so on. And I was thinking as the Protestants at that time. I was only looking at the story of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago, whether it was true or fiction, and I didn’t pay attention to the many many miraculous events throughout the history of the CC, including recent miraculous events in the 19th and 20th centuries, that could have convinced me of the existence of a supernatural world. The way I looked at it, and I KNOW Protestants look at it like this, “was the resurrection of Christ 2000 years ago a historically accurate, true story?”. Nevermind that St. Padre Pio miraculously resurrected a dead child much more recently in the 20th century, and that could have put my doubts about the supernatural to rest, too, because I wasn’t really aware of the miraculous history of the CC, and I’m sure most Protestants are just as unaware as I am.
At that time (when I was 20-something, during the 1990s) I was desperately searching around for any proof of the supernatural, including in non-Christian religions and practices such as Buddhism and Tibeti yoga. I was wondering, are the atheistic materialists right, or is there reincarnation as taught in yoga and Tibeti Buddhism, or is perhaps Christianity true?
Then, one weekend or perhaps Christmas time (I don’t remember for sure) I visited home and I grabbed this book from the bookshelf of my mom, about Our Lady of Guadalupe. I started reading it, and my jaw dropped. I could totally relate to the situation of the Aztec Indians. Who is right and who is wrong? Is their ancient religion right, are there Aztec Gods who demand to constantly go to war in order to take and sacrifice prisoners, and even demand to sacrifice their own children, or are the Spanish conquerors of Mexico right, who say that God is different, and that God doesn’t demand, in fact he forbids human sacrifice? And how will the average Aztec Indian find out what’s the truth, who to follow, without some supernatural help? And bingo, at this crossroads, Holy Mary appears to an Aztec Indian, gives some supernatural signs (the Tilma with her miraculous image, etc), and essentially helps her Aztec children to find the truth and to convert to Christianity. And her miraculous apparition at Tepeyac Hill (modern Mexico city) was one that pierced my ignorance and indicated just how God is continually involved with the Catholic Church, guiding us and helping us when we need it. It’s not like he sent his Son 2000 years ago and then he went on a vacation and has been unavailable ever since. He allowed Mary to appear, in 1531 in the conquered Mexico, to help convert Aztec people to Christianity. The bulk of that people may have not found their way to Christianity, without some miraculous help.
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Joseph_L_Varga
Guest
Then, I happened to see a TV program about her apparitions at Fatima, Portugal (1917), in the series entitled “Unsolved Mysteries”. My jaw dropped even lower. 
In fact, I grew up under the scourge of Communism, in an atheistic, Communist dictatorship (Romania). And Holy Mary appeared in Portugal and prophesied this, in 1917, essentially before the Bolshevik Revolution that took place on November 7, 1917 in Russia! Wow! Mary’s apparitions to the children of Fatima took place between May 13 and October 13, 1917.
Today, I’m better educated. I know that various miracles take place almost daily in the Catholic Church. There’s a flood of proof for the supernatural. Also, God did not go on a permanent vacation 2000 years ago, after the resurrection of Christ. The apparitions of Mary, the apparitions of Jesus Christ, are just some of the miraculous ways in which God looks out for his Church. I know that Holy Mary appeared to St. Dominick, when he was battling the Albigensian heresy in the 13th century. Jesus Christ and Holy Mary, as well as Angels appeared to St. Francis of Assisi, and God used St. Francis to reform his Church. The life of St. Anthony of Padua, one of the first disciples of St. Francis, was full of miracles. In the 16th century, Jesus Christ appeared to St. Teresa of Avila, and used her to reform the Church again. In the 17th c., Christ established the devotion to his Sacred Heart by appearing to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque in France. The Divine Mercy devotion was established as a result of Christ’s apparitions to St. Faustina Kowalska, in the 20th c. Poland. The devotion to Mary’s Immaculate Heart was established as a result of Holy Mary’s apparitions at Fatima in 1917, and later apparitions of Jesus Christ and Holy Mary in 1925 and 1929 to Sister Lucia, the surviving seer of Fatima.
The organization of Mother Theresa of Calcutta was in fact started by Jesus Christ. Christ appeared several times to Mother Theresa, around 1948-49, instructing her to go out into the slums of Calcutta, to take care of the sick and dying people. Today, Mother Theresa’s organization (called Missionaries of Charity, or something like that) has some 600 convents around the world, and takes care of sick and dying people on 5 continents. But how did it all start? How could a single nun, without financial resources, start something like this and grow it into a major organization? Well, she had some serious supernatural help, that’s how she did it. Even when she was about to pick the “uniform” or religious habit for her sisters, someone from Heaven (either Holy Mary or Jesus, I don’t remember now for sure) was instructing her that the habit shouldn’t look like that of the typical European nun. That’s how Mother Theresa picked that white habit with a blue margin, which looks like an Indian garment (looks like a saree).
God constantly guides his Church by both ordinary means (the Pope, the Bishops, the Magisterium of the Catholic Church) and by extraordinary, miraculous events. I’m so happy to be a Catholic.
In fact, I grew up under the scourge of Communism, in an atheistic, Communist dictatorship (Romania). And Holy Mary appeared in Portugal and prophesied this, in 1917, essentially before the Bolshevik Revolution that took place on November 7, 1917 in Russia! Wow! Mary’s apparitions to the children of Fatima took place between May 13 and October 13, 1917.
Today, I’m better educated. I know that various miracles take place almost daily in the Catholic Church. There’s a flood of proof for the supernatural. Also, God did not go on a permanent vacation 2000 years ago, after the resurrection of Christ. The apparitions of Mary, the apparitions of Jesus Christ, are just some of the miraculous ways in which God looks out for his Church. I know that Holy Mary appeared to St. Dominick, when he was battling the Albigensian heresy in the 13th century. Jesus Christ and Holy Mary, as well as Angels appeared to St. Francis of Assisi, and God used St. Francis to reform his Church. The life of St. Anthony of Padua, one of the first disciples of St. Francis, was full of miracles. In the 16th century, Jesus Christ appeared to St. Teresa of Avila, and used her to reform the Church again. In the 17th c., Christ established the devotion to his Sacred Heart by appearing to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque in France. The Divine Mercy devotion was established as a result of Christ’s apparitions to St. Faustina Kowalska, in the 20th c. Poland. The devotion to Mary’s Immaculate Heart was established as a result of Holy Mary’s apparitions at Fatima in 1917, and later apparitions of Jesus Christ and Holy Mary in 1925 and 1929 to Sister Lucia, the surviving seer of Fatima.
The organization of Mother Theresa of Calcutta was in fact started by Jesus Christ. Christ appeared several times to Mother Theresa, around 1948-49, instructing her to go out into the slums of Calcutta, to take care of the sick and dying people. Today, Mother Theresa’s organization (called Missionaries of Charity, or something like that) has some 600 convents around the world, and takes care of sick and dying people on 5 continents. But how did it all start? How could a single nun, without financial resources, start something like this and grow it into a major organization? Well, she had some serious supernatural help, that’s how she did it.
Even when she was about to pick the “uniform” or religious habit for her sisters, someone from Heaven (either Holy Mary or Jesus, I don’t remember now for sure) was instructing her that the habit shouldn’t look like that of the typical European nun. That’s how Mother Theresa picked that white habit with a blue margin, which looks like an Indian garment (looks like a saree).God constantly guides his Church by both ordinary means (the Pope, the Bishops, the Magisterium of the Catholic Church) and by extraordinary, miraculous events. I’m so happy to be a Catholic.
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Nine_Two
Guest
There have been many recorded in the Orthodox Church as well, one in particular during the Fourth Crusade called the Crusaders “Enemies of my son”. Do you find that rather compelling? If not why should I find the appearance in the Catholic Church compelling?
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