The "Are you Catholic or Christian" Question

[pocohombre]

Vico:
Infant circumcision is replace with baptism: Col 2:11–12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism.Agreed except for your word of “infant” which is not necessarily implied by Paul. He said circumcision failed, and I would be careful on just how how “baptism” fits in as it’s replacement. He also said," I am glad I did not baptize any of you" (they were boasting about whom baptized them), but that he preached the gospel,the cross.

 

[pocohombre]

And for the flock, the Church is especially designed to feed them the Bread of Life, His own precious Body and Blood to eat, which was what, if you recall, caused many to stop following Him, because they knew He meant it seriously. So all this stuff about being saved, and then not acknowledging Jesus’ words, “Unless you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you shall not have life within you.” He never came back and explained it away. He never put it in a new light because people were leaving Him. Think about it. Then think about it some more. Don’t stop thinking about it until you can prove He meant otherwise, which I will assure you beforehand, you cannot.

There must be a reason the Church has held this belief tightly to its breast since its very foundation. This is at the very core and essence of Christianity-- Unless you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you shall not have life within you. Sounds a lot like a requirement of salvation to me! Don’t worry. Catholics also believe in baptism and having faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But, my dear friend, you are missing a huge piece of what Jesus wants of and for you. If you believe in Him, you must also believe in His words. +Deus tecum

Preach it brother. All those outside real presence (Orthodox /Catholic) communion are destined for hell. Don’t let CC teaching get in the way with her equivications on the literalness of what Jesus said of the consequences of eating/ not eating.

 

[pocohombre]

It’s a rather long argument whether Catholics are Christians or the reverse.

The Question should really be , “Is your local church Orthodox in the New Testament”.

Many denominations fail the orthodoxy test.

Here are a few examples:

Mark 16:15-16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

A professed believer is saved and should submit him or herself for Baptism.
Churches who practice infant baptism ignore this. An infant cannot believe or repent but is also guilty of nothing. They must grow up and be instructed in the faith and then submit themselves for baptism (see the Ethiopian in Acts 8:27). A baptized believer will receive the Holy Ghost (be born again). Some churches don’t teach this.

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father’s hand.[c] 30 The Father and I are one.”

A true believer cannot be lost to the Lord. This is controversial in churches today.

Romans 10:9
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

A declared Christian is saved. The Holy Spirit dwells in those Born Again.
The Thief on the cross next to Jesus, Luke 23.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

No human work or ritual can save, only acceptance by faith of God’s grace.
A believer confesses his or her faith publicly and repents of all sin.

2Tim3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for proof, for correction, of instruction in righteousness.

Many churches today hold their teaching or tradition above scripture and refuse correction.

Revelation 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Why are some churches today filled with statues? Some with kneelers in front of them.
You wouldn’t see a statue in a Jewish Temple. Some say that they are just Art but what do you think the OT saints would say about them? Relics and Charms are also pagan.

There are plenty of good arguments on this subject on the internet. The Catholic Answers website has their arguments. Enjoy the research.

God Bless

Amen. Welcome oh fellow sojourner, with one from one of the 30,000 other possible denominations.

 

[Vico]

Agreed except for your word of “infant” which is not necessarily implied by Paul. He said circumcision failed, and I would be careful on just how how “baptism” fits in as it’s replacement. He also said," I am glad I did not baptize any of you" (they were boasting about whom baptized them), but that he preached the gospel,the cross.

I don’t know what you mean that circumcision “failed”.

Genesis 7:10-11
This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.

It was “infant circumcision” replaced with baptism (regardless of when). We know that Catholic definition of infant is those that have not attained the use of reason (typically by age 8). We know that Our Lord wished our children to benefit through the life of the Spirit.

Mark 10:13-14 And they brought to him young children, that he might touch them. And the disciples rebuked them that brought them. Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:13-14 Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.
Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
There is mention of baptism in infancy in the early years of the Church of Christ, for example Irenaeus, 130 A.D. and Origen, 155 A.D. The eastern Church practices Christian Initiation in infancy including Baptism, Chrismation, and Eucharist, at once.

 

[pocohombre]

I don’t know what you mean that circumcision “failed”.

Genesis 7:10-11
This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.

It was “infant circumcision” replaced with baptism (regardless of when). We know that Catholic definition of infant is those that have not attained the use of reason (typically by age 8). We know that Our Lord wished our children to benefit through the life of the Spirit.

Mark 10:13-14 And they brought to him young children, that he might touch them. And the disciples rebuked them that brought them. Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:13-14 Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.
Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
There is mention of baptism in infancy in the early years of the Church of Christ, for example Irenaeus, 130 A.D. and Origen, 155 A.D. The eastern Church practices Christian Initiation in infancy including Baptism, Chrismation, and Eucharist, at once.

Paul writes of it or s it Peter .it failed to bring about righteousness/change even regeneration, at best it was symbolic, a real sign(those who had it crucified Him) ,.That is not to say a righteous person would be get circumcised.

 

[brb3]

Agreed except for your word of “infant” which is not necessarily implied by Paul. He said circumcision failed, and I would be careful on just how how “baptism” fits in as it’s replacement. He also said," I am glad I did not baptize any of you" (they were boasting about whom baptized them), but that he preached the gospel,the cross.

Yes, but we know what Paul meant here. We have the context.

Not that they weren’t Water Baptized, but just not by he … so that one might brag to another that Paul’s baptism was superior to Joe Bob’s.

That’s why anyone can perform the Sacrament, … not just a Bishop, like Paul. Man submerges the believer under water … but, it is Christ who washes them clean, and anoints them with H.S. graces.

 

[brb3]

Preach it brother. All those outside real presence (Orthodox /Catholic) communion are destined for hell. Don’t let CC teaching get in the way with her equivications on the literalness of what Jesus said of the consequences of eating/ not eating.

Nope …

The Sacrament of Eucharist is equally efficacious to all Christians who believe they are receiving Christ’s Real Presence. Christ does not withhold himself from a Protestant who comes to the Table of the Lord, fully contrite, fully confessed, fully desiring all graces Christ might bestow on him/her.

It is they who have doubts, that don’t receive rightly … and fail to be blessed and fed @ the Lord’s Table.

 

[brb3]

We went door to door once wanting to share the gospel with anyone and quite a few Catholics would say, “No thanks, I am Catholic”. We understood…

Did they offer you the Catholic perspective on the Gospel or Church … or ask about your understanding thereof ?

 

[JamesCaruso]

…Thankfully in heaven we won’t need names like Protestant or Orthodox or Catholic etc.

True, you say so rightly. because then we will all be one in love of God and love of one another, but in the transition to that heavenly state of bliss, we will all become Catholic with a capital C, as Protestant and Orthodox and all others destined for God’s heavenly home are brought into the full light of Jesus Christ.

 

[MaryT777]

And for the flock, the Church is especially designed to feed them the Bread of Life, His own precious Body and Blood to eat, which was what, if you recall, caused many to stop following Him, because they knew He meant it seriously. So all this stuff about being saved, and then not acknowledging Jesus’ words, “Unless you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you shall not have life within you.” He never came back and explained it away. He never put it in a new light because people were leaving Him. Think about it. Then think about it some more. Don’t stop thinking about it until you can prove He meant otherwise, which I will assure you beforehand, you cannot.

There must be a reason the Church has held this belief tightly to its breast since its very foundation. This is at the very core and essence of Christianity-- Unless you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you shall not have life within you. Sounds a lot like a requirement of salvation to me! Don’t worry. Catholics also believe in baptism and having faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But, my dear friend, you are missing a huge piece of what Jesus wants of and for you. If you believe in Him, you must also believe in His words. +Deus tecum

Great post.

 

[cheezey]

Preach it brother. All those outside real presence (Orthodox /Catholic) communion are destined for hell. Don’t let CC teaching get in the way with her equivications on the literalness of what Jesus said of the consequences of eating/ not eating.

**Nope …

The Sacrament of Eucharist is equally efficacious to all Christians who believe they are receiving Christ’s Real Presence. Christ does not withhold himself from a Protestant who comes to the Table of the Lord, fully contrite, fully confessed, fully desiring all graces Christ might bestow on him/her.**

It is they who have doubts, that don’t receive rightly … and fail to be blessed and fed @ the Lord’s Table.

 

[jmcrae]

Agreed except for your word of “infant” which is not necessarily implied by Paul. He said circumcision failed, and I would be careful on just how how “baptism” fits in as it’s replacement. He also said," I am glad I did not baptize any of you" (they were boasting about whom baptized them), but that he preached the gospel,the cross.

Circumcision is done to infants eight days old. The argument of the Early Church when children began to be born to Christian families was not whether they should be baptized, but whether it was necessary to wait eight days before doing so. The Church ruled that parents may have their children baptized “as early as possible” within reason- a rule that continues today.

 

[jmcrae]

You and me both.

 

[pocohombre]

Nope …

The Sacrament of Eucharist is equally efficacious to all Christians who believe they are receiving Christ’s Real Presence. Christ does not withhold himself from a Protestant who comes to the Table of the Lord, fully contrite, fully confessed, fully desiring all graces Christ might bestow on him/her.

It is they who have doubts, that don’t receive rightly … and fail to be blessed and fed @ the Lord’s Table.

Ummm that is what i said -those outside of real presence partakers those who believe in the symbolic,that the elements physically do not change.

 

[pocohombre]

True, you say so rightly. because then we will all be one in love of God and love of one another, but in the transition to that heavenly state of bliss, we will all become Catholic with a capital C, as Protestant and Orthodox and all others destined for God’s heavenly home are brought into the full light of Jesus Christ.

There in lies the problem, the separation of Catholicism and the rest of Christendom, the need to say such a thing. But, we are on this side of heaven and the dross (having that need) has not left us yet.

 

[pocohombre]

Circumcision is done to infants eight days old. The argument of the Early Church when children began to be born to Christian families was not whether they should be baptized, but whether it was necessary to wait eight days before doing so. The Church ruled that parents may have their children baptized “as early as possible” within reason- a rule that continues today.

What is early church? The book of Acts? Book of revelations? 2nd Century?

 

[sennincatholic]

What is early church? The book of Acts? Book of revelations? 2nd Century?

 

[jmcrae]

What is early church? The book of Acts? Book of revelations? 2nd Century?

It is in the Didache, so 50 AD or earlier - well within the Apostolic era - remember that the first New Testament book, St. Paul’s first epistle to the Thessalonians, was written in the 60s AD.

 

[pocohombre]

It is in the Didache, so 50 AD or earlier - well within the Apostolic era - remember that the first New Testament book, St. Paul’s first epistle to the Thessalonians, was written in the 60s AD.

First the Didache is around 100 ad ,after the apostles were all gone. Secondly it talks only of adult or consenting individual being baptized.

 

[pocohombre]

What, 400 ad is early church? even 800 ad as is 100 ad? Much of what CC practices evolved so it is important to specify what is meant by early church. It is not enough to say we do it today cause early church did it.Fact is some things were not done in early church that are done today and vice versa.