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laylow
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So basically the quotes of Jesus?In the context of the OP the parts which correspond to the words of Christ:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Anything else is of less importance than His message of love and irrelevant to the topic of free will and suffering.
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tonyrey
Guest
Not only what He said but how He lived, died and influenced the course of history…So basically the quotes of Jesus?
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Vonsalza
Guest
Anecdotes don’t have to be inherently non-real, Vera. And it’s a good thing that the popes of history have apologized for the bad things that Catholic men have done in abuse of their authority in the Church. I’ll double-down and call it a necessary thing.Maybe you heard of a guy, called Karol J. Wojtyla (aka. John Paul II), who actually apologized for the acts of the Inquisition. It came late, but eventually it did come. looks like that he accepted the “anecdote” as real.
But that doesn’t refute the original point that the Church loves, and moreover, thrives on free thought on virtually anything not dogmatically defined. For every example you have to toss up about the bad behavior of this or that Catholic official, there are legions of examples of scholarly monastics who spent their days either providing sustenance or running their “thinkers” for centuries-nigh-on-millennia.
Many of our classic (non-Christian) texts survived in monasteries. The modern scientific mindset was largely born in post-Augustine Catholic legalism that was housed in monasteries and abbeys. There are many today who think the scientific method wouldn’t have been possible without Catholicism. Certainly, much of the scientific development of the middle ages came about under the patronage of the Church itself (a fact I’m sure you’d like to ignore).
To say that your perspective on the relationship between free thought, science and Catholicism is a little lop-sided and under-developed would be quite the understatement.
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laylow
Guest
Why not dogma? What if I or anyone else becomes inspired by the Holy Spirit with a revelation of ideas that prove the current dogma needs amending. I’m sure myself or that person would be labeled a lunatic, heretic, and plenty of other duragatory terms. But how would the accusers know for sure that person was not being inspired. Are there then prerequisites for being inspired? Does that person have to be a Pope, Bishop, Priest, What? I see nowhere where Jesus or God claims what those are or who those people can be?Anecdotes don’t have to be inherently non-real, Vera. And it’s a good thing that the popes of history have apologized for the bad things that Catholic men have done in abuse of their authority in the Church. I’ll double-down and call it a necessary thing.
But that doesn’t refute the original point that the Church loves, and moreover, thrives on free thought on virtually anything not dogmatically defined. For every example you have to toss up about the bad behavior of this or that Catholic official, there are legions of examples of scholarly monastics who spent their days either providing sustenance or running their “thinkers” for centuries-nigh-on-millennia.
Many of our classic (non-Christian) texts survived in monasteries. The modern scientific mindset was largely born in post-Augustine Catholic legalism that was housed in monasteries and abbeys. There are many today who think the scientific method wouldn’t have been possible without Catholicism. Certainly, much of the scientific development of the middle ages came about under the patronage of the Church itself (a fact I’m sure you’d like to ignore).
To say that your perspective on the relationship between free thought, science and Catholicism is a little lop-sided and under-developed would be quite the understatement.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Because it is by the Spirit that unchanging dogma is established in the first place. And it is through Christ’s Church that the Spirit moves in this way - exclusively.Why not dogma? What if I or anyone else becomes inspired by the Holy Spirit with a revelation of ideas that prove the current dogma needs amending.
Because if the inspiration was genuine it would have happened through Christ’s very own living mouthpiece - The Church. This is how we separate the genuine prophet from the false prophet. This is why Paul sought confirmation from Peter even after the Damascus Road event.But how would the accusers know for sure that person was not being inspired.
Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.”Are there then prerequisites for being inspired? Does that person have to be a Pope, Bishop, Priest, What? I see nowhere where Jesus or God claims what those are or who those people can be?
1 Thessalonians 5:12 "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you, "
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laylow
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I’m in the Church. I can’t be inspired?Because it is by the Spirit that unchanging dogma is established in the first place. And it is through Christ’s Church that the Spirit moves in this way - exclusively.
Because if the inspiration was genuine it would have happened through Christ’s very own living mouthpiece - The Church. This is how we separate the genuine prophet from the false prophet. This is why Paul sought confirmation from Peter even after the Damascus Road event.
Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
1 Thessalonians 5:12 "We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you, "
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Vonsalza
Guest
In a way contrary to the deposit of faith?I’m in the Church. I can’t be inspired?
No. At least not by the Holy Spirit.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Missed this. Sorry.
Which change? Finishing a degree at a secular school instead or going protestant to Catholic?Why change of mind? (unless that is too personal which I understand)
In certain regions that’s true. But the Pew studies seem to indicate that the percentage of religious “nones” as part of world population will actually drop in the foreseeable future.Yeah it makes it more pronounced. But Christianity is still strong, but may not be for long. Atheism is predicted to be the majority by 2038.
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laylow
Guest
Both, I guess.Missed this. Sorry.
Which change? Finishing a degree at a secular school instead or going protestant to Catholic?
I hope it means people are at least thinking of their faith some, although I wouldn’t expect them to spend their wholes lives on it.In certain regions that’s true. But the Pew studies seem to indicate that the percentage of religious “nones” as part of world population will actually drop in the foreseeable future.
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