The Art of Killing--for Kids

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spencelo said:
I wonder if people on here see a difference between hunting for sport and hunting recreationally.
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I wonder if the animal views it differently?

Trophy hunting is actually good for herds.

Trophies here in Alberta keep getting bigger not smaller. It’s because of well managed hunting practices.
 
spencelo said:
Those are just rationalizations to justify the unacceptable. Consider: if hunting is such a grave moral responsibility, as you seem to imply, why do hunters get so much pleasure and joy out of doing it? That’s like saying I had a splendid time putting down my dog – can’t wait to do it again to my next one.

outdoorlife.com/blogs/big-buck-zone/2012/03/upside-youth-hunt-remembering-why-hunting-fun
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If hunting gives us pleasure then hunting must be innately human.
 
TimeEntrance said:
Morally and legally no.

But animals commit what are in human terms forcible rape, homicide, and sometimes infanticide frequently. But we do not apply these terms to animal behaviors for a reason.

I guess part of the question hinges on whether or not humans really are part of the animal kingdom. If we are then… moral philosophy will have to reconcile with that. Meat eating theoretically began in Genesis with the fall of man. As I understand it at least. But that is not the origin of meat eating and predation according to the life sciences like biology. Predation and competition partly drive evolution. The success of man in the animal kingdom arguably has less to do with his benevolence than with his superior intelligence that builds technology that has proven so successful in predation and competition.

We can’t appeal to the paradise and narrative of Genesis and then damn it as myth at the same time.
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Scripturally, meat eating began not with the fall but with the flood.

There is evidence that our natural bodies were bred herbivorously; the length of our digestive system, for one. But as human life expanded after the flood, to places where nice little veggie gardens couldn’t grow (like the desert, etc), meat became necessary, and GOD made sure to say it was OK.

There is no moral difference between doing a thing and paying someone to do it for you.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Scripturally, meat eating began not with the fall but with the flood.

There is evidence that our natural bodies were bred herbivorously; the length of our digestive system, for one. But as human life expanded after the flood, to places where nice little veggie gardens couldn’t grow (like the desert, etc), meat became necessary, and GOD made sure to say it was OK.

There is no moral difference between doing a thing and paying someone to do it for you.

ICXC NIKA
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Meat eating began before the flood.

Homo Erectus and Home Habilis hunted and cooked meat. Their meat eating helped our ancestors’ brain to grow much bigger and was part of our becoming human.

Hunting (like fire and tools) is part of what made us human in the first place.

Animal societies that are most like ours (wolves, lions, chimps, baboons) all hunt.
 
Didn’t God give Adam & Eve domain over the animals before the ‘apple incident’?
 
spencelo said:
Suppose a man regularly rapes and beats his girlfriend, and one day, a neighbor decides to do the same - but with more “gentleness.” Are the neighbor’s actions okay if he says: “The boyfriend is always much crueler?”
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We all agree raping wild animals is wrong. if you had another point, I’m lost.
 
Originally Posted by Armor of Light
Didn’t God give Adam & Eve domain over the animals before the ‘apple incident’?
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MaryBernard said:
Yes, He did. The problem is that too many people today don’t understand what that means.
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Exactly!

The only way hunting is wrong is if it is a result of our fallen nature. It happened before that as part of Gods design for us. We are omnivores after all…
 
Genesis 1
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
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26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
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Why did God create livestock if not to be eaten?
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
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This means we should/can eat anything.
 
I think one of the major problems of human society today is that we are disconnected from the fundamental basics of life and survival and live in an artificial urban world instead.

When people experience the primal activity of stalking and hunting prey, making the kill, dressing/cleaning, cooking and enjoying the results, they reconnect with some of the basics of life. In my (admittedly limited) experience, activist vegans are urban dwellers with almost no nature skills or experience whatsoever. Their convictions come from an excess of Disney movies and a deficiency of actual nature experiences.

But I’m not opinionated or anything! 😉

And how does one come up with the idea that eating meat is only part of human experience since the flood?? Last time I read Genesis, Adam’s boys farmed AND raised livestock!
 
manualman said:
I think one of the major problems of human society today is that we are disconnected from the fundamental basics of life and survival and live in an artificial urban world instead…
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What are you talking about? Do you really think that shrimp have heads and veins? Now way, just go in the supermarket section where the frozen food is and take a look at them. :D:D:D:D
 
Cristiano said:
What are you talking about? Do you really think that shrimp have heads and veins? Now way, just go in the supermarket section where the frozen food is and take a look at them. :D:D:D:D
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BTW I built an aquarium for fish sticks but it looks like they do not reproduce in captivity.:D:D:D:D
 
I’d say Hal already substantively addressed your thoughts.

I can’t help commenting on one aspect of your post. You note that kids hunting isn’t new and back it up by talking about the legality of kids getting hunting licenses. LOL! Kids have been hunting with their father LONG before state bureacrats or feudal lords established regulations for it! What’s NEW is not kids experiencing hunting, but grown ups not comprehending the difference in moral substance between people and game animals.

Why do hunters feel pangs after a kill? Simple. Hunting is a primal reminder of the mortality of ALL living things. When the prey is killed, there is a sadness in recognizing the death of something beautiful. But death is simply part of life in nature and I suspect the larger part of that somberness is the reminder that we, too, are mortal and our eyes will one day cloud over and our bodies grow stiff and cold. Hunters come face to face with mortality and IMO most are better for having done so.

Hunting is an expensive hobby to get into, so I never have, but I went to school in Wisconsin where it is a near religion (next to Packermania). I think I understand the mindset (and I do catch and clean fish, so I’m not totally basing this on theory). I’m curious if my stereotype of you is accurate? You an urban dweller who perhaps considers meat to be something that magically appears at the supermarket and has watched too many romanticized ‘nature’ movies?
 
Of course it’s okay for kids to hunt, far better to kill a deer and use it for subsistence than sitting at home playing violent video games 🤷
 
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