The "Ask a Baptist" Thread

[Carlan]

“What happens to all the Baptists who divorce and remarry, some who have done this more than once and those Baptists who live to gether with out marriage and yet go to church on Wednesdays and Sundays anyway,and many of the other very serious unrepented sins, Does your original justification, saving experiece cover those sins also?”

That original justification isn’t a get-out-of-hell-free card. Divorce is sinful, adultery is sin, and so on. Dying with an unrepented, unforgiven sin on one’s conscience is a damnable offence. All sins are of equal gravity, because all sin separates us from God. And I believe that God continues to forgive, no matter how many times I sin, so long as my repentance is real.

So you are not one of the "Once Saved Always Saved " Baptists. Even knowing that Divorce and remarrying, which is in fact living in adultery,is a deadly sin,and you continue in that relationshio the rest of your life, what do you hope for? I guess you could hope before you take your last breath, you will have time to say sorry Lord, forgive me!Carlan

 

[crazzeto]

To me, the essentials are do we believe? Do our actions reflect God within us? Organizing ourselves into just one earthly organization doesn’t seem as important as serving God.

I guess what makes me this way is this: my dear Father-in-law (ordained Baptist minister, Ph.D. in religion, man of great faith and sacrificial service) helped me understand that not only is it impossible for me to really truly understand everything, but that it’s okay to not even try.

I was raised to believe that certain people had greater religious authority than I. Ministers and the like. But then several ministers were in authority over me in a job situation. I took a stand against racism and in doing so, inadvertently threatened one minister-boss’s political ambitions. I got fired. I’ve given up on earthly churches and their leaders. When it really mattered, they stood up for mammon, not for LOVE.

I have come to believe that what is important is that I try to live a life which outwardly manifests my love for God. Of course, I’m an utter failure at that, but I keep trying. My failure to live up to God is a constant pressing grief on my heart.

So if you want to be Catholic, Anglican, whatever, that’s fine. The differences in beliefs beyond what I’ve said above are between you and God. I love you as you are, and if called, I’ll die trying to ensure your freedom to have your beliefs.

If that’s not good enough for you to find unity with me, I’m sad but I won’t change.

Sorry, I’m just trying to get to the bottom of something that had been perplexing me. I hope you don’t take my posts as some attempt to directly challenge faith. The true intent is to figure out where the belief comes from, because it happens to be a commonly held proestant belief which I don’t understand.

With regard to your situation, I’m very sorry to hear you got burnt. I understand that would be a very disolutioning situation. I’m glad, at the very least you didn’t take your rage out on God as many others have. So I take it then your POV here might not be typical of what I describe?

 

[Dettingen]

"So you are not one of the “Once Saved Always Saved " Baptists. Even knowing that Divorce and remarrying, which is in fact living in adultery,is a deadly sin,and you continue in that relationshio the rest of your life, what do you hope for? I guess you could hope before you take your last breath, you will have time to say sorry Lord, forgive me!Carlan”

I assume you meant “one” where you wrote “you” because you certainly cannot know the details of my life.

The person who cheerily sins, counting on having enough time to repent at the end isn’t evidencing true belief, are they? For if their belief were sincere, they would not be trying to “game the system” would they? Perhaps such people can be characterized as “whited sepulchres”? But we do know, from the example of the thief on the cross near Our Lord, that true belief and repentance at the end is rewarded with salvation.

 

[Dettingen]

See John, chapter 3. We believe, we are saved. What do we believe?

16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

[Douay-Rheims, http://www.drbo.org/]

But as has been seen in conversation above, some people profess belief while acting otherwise. Our God, loving us, gives helpful guidance:

Matthew 7:

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[KJV, http://www.biblos.com]

However, when we look at other people, I think we must attempt charity, because our eyes cannot see another person’s soul.

Sin is a sneaky thing. We vow to put it behind us and live righteously, but like a dieter eating chocolate, we suddenly find ourselves doing wrong again.

In Romans 7, Paul expresses his frustrations:

15 For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do. 16 If then I do that which I will not, I consent to the law, that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh, that which is good. For to will, is present with me; but to accomplish that which is good, I find not. 19 For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and captivating me in the law of sin, that is in my members. 24 Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin.

[Douay-Rheims, http://www.drbo.org/]

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I have a couple questions and observations. (My Inlaws are Southern Baptist-wonderful Christian people, I’m so blessed to have married into his family, and my dh was raised in that faith. He’s Catholic now), regarding a couple things Dettinger (sp?) posted:

I don’t believe it’s true that the prohibition on alcohol consumption is true for all Baptists. I have a couple African American friends who are Baptist who drink. One’s husband is actually a deacon in their church. When I found out she was Baptist, and said that I thought Baptists didn’t drink, she reminded me that Jesus’ 1st miracle was turning water into wine (like I didn’t know that ). I don’t know what “type” of Baptist my friends are. I think National and/or American Baptist are predominately African American?

2nd: How do the OSAS/Eternal Security Baptists (Southern, Independent Fundamental, etc.) feel about Free Will Baptists? (besides that they are wrong in that particular doctrine, of course. Like are they considered “true” Baptists, and do you know how they came about?).

And since you mentioned Calvinism, I’ve heard of “Reformed Baptist”. What’s that?

Thanks for the thread!

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[Dettingen]

Because each Baptist congregation is independent, there’s no authority anywhere to impose rules from above, in contrast to the RCC. Temperance is not a rule, per se, but more of a tradition. If it’s a rule, it’s observed more frequently in the breach!

In the South, where you’ll find a demographic predominance of Baptists, statistics show alcohol consumption lower and soda pop consumption higher than the national average. However, plenty Baptists drink. They just feel guilty about it.

The night before my wedding, my parents were invited by some guests planning to go to a bar after the rehersal dinner. My parents declined, knowing my father-in-law was a minister. They didn’t want to embarrass me, I suppose. Imagine my parents’ surprise when they later learned I went, and even more surprised to find out that my in-laws were there drinking and dancing with the rest of us!

 

[Paul3144]

I don’t believe it’s true that the prohibition on alcohol consumption is true for all Baptists. I have a couple African American friends who are Baptist who drink. One’s husband is actually a deacon in their church. When I found out she was Baptist, and said that I thought Baptists didn’t drink, she reminded me that Jesus’ 1st miracle was turning water into wine (like I didn’t know that ).

Here’s the thing about Baptists and alcohol- It’s not a matter of doctrine or morals. It’s kind of like priestly celibacy.

2nd: How do the OSAS/Eternal Security Baptists (Southern, Independent Fundamental, etc.) feel about Free Will Baptists? And since you mentioned Calvinism, I’ve heard of “Reformed Baptist”. What’s that?

We don’t have a problem with Free Will Baptists. We just joke about how they’re deep-water Methodists. Reformed Baptists are Calvinists and also hold to covenant theology and a Reformed view of communion.

 

[Dettingen]

One of the many virtues of this thread is it is getting me to think a bit harder about what I was taught and what I now believe.

I’m not surprised to discover (again!) that Baptists are inconsistent but I’ve got to know how they explain this one!

1. Many Baptists believe the Bible to be literal in every way
2. Baptists reject the idea of the true presence

 

[kristanl]

I guess I have two questions:

1. What does baptism mean to you?
2. Why are you on this Catholic website? Most Baptists I know think I am condemned to hell, and dont bother looking up any information. (So thank you for atleast seeing it in a different perspective).

I dont mean this to offend you, but one big problem I have with a lot of southern baptist (people, pastors, individuals) I’m not sure which one… But I hear a lot of Baptists condemning people to hell. I just dont think that is the most important thing to dicuss!!! (I know everyone tends to do this, but my best friend is Baptist and her family has a book of cults and the CC is in it and it says we are going to hell. )

Thanks!!!
p.s. I have one more question for you. Do you personally believe Jesus wanted you to drink grape juice and eat some “bread” (I have learned that at some churches it is loaves of bread, crackers etc. ) once or twice a year, only in rememberance??

 

[Carlan]

"

The person who cheerily sins, counting on having enough time to repent at the end isn’t evidencing true belief, are they? For if their belief were sincere, they would not be trying to “game the system” would they?

So they weren’t saved in the first place? Isn’t that what the believers in the OSAS doctrine always say.

The puzzle to me has always been that Baptists usually say that sin is sin whether big or little, and that salvation is a one time experience and no matter what you do you cannot lose salvation. Is that the belief of your particular Baptist Church? I would say because of the nature of sin, all Christians struggle with sin, and that salvation is a process in the growth toward holiness. " We have been saved, we are being saved and we hope to be saved."Right?Carlan

 

[2nd_Adam]

Inspired by the “Ask a Lutheran” thread, I wanted to provide a place for people to ask questions about the Baptist tradition, our practices and church services, etc.

I highly respect Al Mohler and Mark Dever who are Southern Baptist and also are staunch Calvinists too. They are part of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

alliancenet.org/

I used to believe in believer’s baptism or professor’s baptism. I cannot find Scripture support of this practice of modern day believer’s baptism. Therefore, how do you support the position of believer’s baptism in light of Scripture revelation?

 

[Dettingen]

“1. What does baptism mean to you?”
To me, the act of baptism is an outward expression of inward change. That is, prior to my immersion by a pastor, I had already come to believe in Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and in my heart I had already committed myself to serve Him and His people. So the act of baptism symbolically washed away my sins and symbolically marked my entrance to a new way of life.

FWIW, when I was an infant I was baptized in a Methodist church, but after my mother’s divorce and remarriage to a Baptist, we joined his church. Baptists don’t count other baptisms, so Mama and I had to get in the water again. It bothered her but it didn’t matter to me. IMO, the changed heart is more important to God than the ritual.

 

[Dettingen]

“2. Why are you on this Catholic website?”

I was reading Consuelo and Alva Vanderbilt: The Story of a Daughter and a Mother in the Gilded Age by Amanda Mackenzie Stuart. In the 1920s, Consuelo was divorced from her first husband and remarried. Her second husband’s devoutly Catholic family refused to even meet her because they considered that the marriage was invalid. Consequently, Consuelo sought an annulment of her first (Episcopal) marriage so she could marry again in the Catholic church. Only then would her husband’s family accept her.

I thought then that because Consuelo’s marriage took place outside the Catholic church it would automatically be considered invalid by the Catholic church. So I didn’t understand the need for an annulment.

Therefore, I did some searching and found you all, and joined up meaning to post my question. I found the answer before I had a chance to ask. Along the way, I found that many Catholics in the list group been hurt by ignorant Protestants (like you). I also saw that there were a lot of questions and misunderstandings about Protestantism. I thought if I participated, I could possibly be helpful by answering questions, clarifying misunderstandings, and by apologizing for the hurt my co-religionists had caused.

 

[Dettingen]

“Most Baptists I know think I am condemned to hell, and don’t bother looking up any information. (So thank you for at least seeing it in a different perspective).”

I think that God decides who is going to hell, not the Baptists. At the very least, I don’t decide who is going to hell. Except myself, I guess. I’m trying to live according to God’s will so I can be closer to Him in the next life.

I’m really sorry that people have judged you so harshly. Your presence in this group is a testimony to the truth, which is that your heart is good and that you are trying to live a good Christian life. I apologize for the bad behavior of my co-religionists.

“I dont mean this to offend you, but one big problem I have with a lot of southern baptist (people, pastors, individuals) I’m not sure which one… But I hear a lot of Baptists condemning people to hell. I just dont think that is the most important thing to dicuss!!! (I know everyone tends to do this, but my best friend is Baptist and her family has a book of cults and the CC is in it and it says we are going to hell. )”

I’m not offended in the least. I agree that it is sad that people concentrate on the destination of each others’ souls to the neglect of serving God in this life. I believe that when people are insecure about themselves, they tend to judge others in ways both large and small. So, for example, if I can say you are going to hell because you are Catholic I can feel more secure about heaven because I’m not Catholic. Understand?

I agree completely that there are other more important things to do with our time. I hope that our discussions here are one of those things. And just think, if everybody who condemned everybody else instead devoted their time and energy to service, how much hunger, poverty, sorrow, and grief would there be?

FWIW, do remember that Catholics do their share of condemning Protestants to hell. Many on these forums.

“Do you personally believe Jesus wanted you to drink grape juice and eat some “bread” (I have learned that at some churches it is loaves of bread, crackers etc. ) once or twice a year, only in rememberance??”

Yes. I understand the word “bread” to be pretty generic—there’s lots of kinds of bread and I don’t recall a specific menu from the Last Supper. I used to be indifferent about the wine/grape juice issue. Unfermented, fermented, so what? But I’ve come to realize that I am an alcoholic and so I now will not drink it in any situation (God help me keep this vow!). So if wine is used, I wouldn’t be able to receive. Even if I believed in transubstantiation, the physical characteristics of the originating substance are preserved. (Something else I learned here. Yay!)

BTW, I haven’t had a drink in four years. Yay!!!

 

[2nd_Adam]

One of the many virtues of this thread is it is getting me to think a bit harder about what I was taught and what I now believe.

I’m not surprised to discover (again!) that Baptists are inconsistent but I’ve got to know how they explain this one!

1. Many Baptists believe the Bible to be literal in every way
2. Baptists reject the idea of the true presence

I think you would have to qualify what you mean to be literal. You don’t see a bunch of one eyed Baptists on Sunday services. I think Catholics are more literal in regards to communion too.

Temptations to Sin

“Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. - Jesus

 

[Carlan]

“

1. What does baptism mean to you?”
   To me, the act of baptism is an outward expression of inward change. That is, prior to my immersion by a pastor, I had already come to believe in Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and in my heart I had already committed myself to serve Him and His people. So the act of baptism symbolically washed away my sins and symbolically marked my entrance to a new way of life.

Hello again, Dettingen,

What are the effects of Baptism? The Catholic Church teaches.
Baptism takes away original sin, all personal sins and all punishment due to sin. It makes the baptized person a participant in the divine life of the Trinity Through sanctifying grace, the grace of justification which incorporates one into Christ and into his Church.

We are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and justification is imparted at Baptism. The Catholic Church Baptizes with water and the Holy Spirit in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.: Carlan
The Trinity.

 

[Dettingen]

“What are the effects?”

The ritual itself does nothing. Baptism isn’t a magic spell.

The commitment, the changed heart–this is transforming.

 

[Carlan]

“What are the effects?”

The ritual itself does nothing. Baptism isn’t a magic spell.

The commitment, the changed heart–this is transforming.

Baptizm is required. It is not magic. why would Jesus have had John Baptise him if not as an example for us. So why did you allow your own Baptism as an adult if you didn’t believe that you were rec’ing the Holy Spirit.?Yes Catholics are Commited to Jesus Christ. Throught the sanctifying grace of God our hearts are surrendered and changed so as to grow in the holiness which is pleasing to the Father. Carlan

 

[kristanl]

“Most Baptists I know think I am condemned to hell, and don’t bother looking up any information. (So thank you for at least seeing it in a different perspective).”

I think that God decides who is going to hell, not the Baptists. At the very least, I don’t decide who is going to hell. Except myself, I guess. I’m trying to live according to God’s will so I can be closer to Him in the next life.

I’m really sorry that people have judged you so harshly. Your presence in this group is a testimony to the truth, which is that your heart is good and that you are trying to live a good Christian life. I apologize for the bad behavior of my co-religionists.

“I dont mean this to offend you, but one big problem I have with a lot of southern baptist (people, pastors, individuals) I’m not sure which one… But I hear a lot of Baptists condemning people to hell. I just dont think that is the most important thing to dicuss!!! (I know everyone tends to do this, but my best friend is Baptist and her family has a book of cults and the CC is in it and it says we are going to hell. )”

I’m not offended in the least. I agree that it is sad that people concentrate on the destination of each others’ souls to the neglect of serving God in this life. I believe that when people are insecure about themselves, they tend to judge others in ways both large and small. So, for example, if I can say you are going to hell because you are Catholic I can feel more secure about heaven because I’m not Catholic. Understand?

I agree completely that there are other more important things to do with our time. I hope that our discussions here are one of those things. And just think, if everybody who condemned everybody else instead devoted their time and energy to service, how much hunger, poverty, sorrow, and grief would there be?

FWIW, do remember that Catholics do their share of condemning Protestants to hell. Many on these forums.

“Do you personally believe Jesus wanted you to drink grape juice and eat some “bread” (I have learned that at some churches it is loaves of bread, crackers etc. ) once or twice a year, only in rememberance??”

Yes. I understand the word “bread” to be pretty generic—there’s lots of kinds of bread and I don’t recall a specific menu from the Last Supper. I used to be indifferent about the wine/grape juice issue. Unfermented, fermented, so what? But I’ve come to realize that I am an alcoholic and so I now will not drink it in any situation (God help me keep this vow!). So if wine is used, I wouldn’t be able to receive. Even if I believed in transubstantiation, the physical characteristics of the originating substance are preserved. (Something else I learned here. Yay!)

BTW, I haven’t had a drink in four years. Yay!!!

Thank you for everything you have said back to me.
Do you believe a person is born with original sin? (For the sake of the baptism question)…

*That is probably one of the more interesting reasons I have heard of someone coming on here before! I hope that you are learning a lot.
I am glad you are a little more open minded then some other people I know- I am pretty suprised you are from Georgia (like me!) and feel this way!! I have found Southern Baptists to be a little more condemning of other religions then other religions in general.
How do you view John 6? You stated above you do not believe in the Real Presence, so may I ask why? p.s. if you were ever to become Catholic you do not need to have the bread and the wine to recieve the complete soul and divinity of Jesus, this can happen in just one form of it. (For you the bread-could be the body and blood soul and divinity) Hope this helps!!

p.s. Have you read any of the Early Church from Early Church fathers?

Congrats on being sober!

 

[sckcd]

I guess I have two questions:

1. What does baptism mean to you?
2. Why are you on this Catholic website? Most Baptists I know think I am condemned to hell, and dont bother looking up any information. (So thank you for atleast seeing it in a different perspective).

I dont mean this to offend you, but one big problem I have with a lot of southern baptist (people, pastors, individuals) I’m not sure which one… But I hear a lot of Baptists condemning people to hell. I just dont think that is the most important thing to dicuss!!! (I know everyone tends to do this, but my best friend is Baptist and her family has a book of cults and the CC is in it and it says we are going to hell. )

Thanks!!!
p.s. I have one more question for you. Do you personally believe Jesus wanted you to drink grape juice and eat some “bread” (I have learned that at some churches it is loaves of bread, crackers etc. ) once or twice a year, only in rememberance??

Baptism, at my church, is an outward sign of being saved by the blood of Christ. Just as Jesus was baptized, we are too.

I am on CAF to find anwers. My husband is Catholic and although I would probably not consider going to the CC otherwise, now that he is returning to the church after years of not attending I am in need of answers so I can worship with him and know what is going on. I am thrilled he is interested in God again, btw. I have prayed for this for a LONG time. And I am finding things I like about Catholicism.

I have never heard of a book with lists of who is going to hell, lol. There are so many types of Baptists, some good and welcoming and some that use the name Baptist for bad (like those Phelps/Westboro people), so you can’t attribute what one says to all Baptists. I don’t think any of us on Earth are worthy of deciding who is going to hell.

We don’t have the strict communion rules about the bread/wine like the CC does, no. We keep it simple, it says bread in the Bible so we have a type of bread (some have crackers, some bread, etc) and we have grape juice, like many other non Catholic churches. I guess because we don’t want to condone alcohol. But many Baptists I know drink some, it’s not a grounds for ex-communication or anything, just not encouraged.

The thing about Baptists is that there are many different types of them and beliefs will differ from church to church. And you don’t have to profess to believe according to the Baptist church or anything, just in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. For instance, I do not believe that we are neccessarily OSAS. But many Baptists do in general.